# Scientists recreate Out-of-Body Experience **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 24, 2007, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-recreate-out-of-body-experience/416807 "2007-08-24T19:07:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2007, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-recreate-out-of-body-experience/416807/161 "2007-08-31T13:25:33Z")
**Czarcasm** , It was a while ago, but here is a link to a devout atheist’s NDE of being in Hell, and saved by Jesus: [http://archive.southcoasttoday.com/daily/01-04/01-31-04/c04rg223.htm](http://archive.southcoasttoday.com/daily/01-04/01-31-04/c04rg223.htm) After a quick search I was not able to find accounts of people of one faith meeting figures of another, unless you count atheism as a faith system. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2007, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-recreate-out-of-body-experience/416807/162 "2007-08-31T13:25:38Z")
[QUOTE=lekatt] The first link is about research that shows our consciousness will live after the death of our brain and body. It is good evidence of a separation of brain and consciousness. Thereby showing the brain does not create our consciousness. Whatever else I have said about the life after death comes from my personal experience, and is reinforced by thousands of similar experiences by other people. [/QUOTE] The way you’ve told it, your personal “experience” was only a dream. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2007, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-recreate-out-of-body-experience/416807/163 "2007-08-31T13:30:28Z")
[QUOTE=monavis] I am not an expert on NDE’s or OBE’s but I do know the brain can do some strange things. My brother had brain surgery and during it he was not put to sleep and he told me of hearing music and an orchestra, as the surgeon touched different parts of the brain there was different sensations; since I had what I thought was a NDE when I was “not” near death (for me at least) it was just the anesthetic. Just last year after a angiogram I was well awake and when I would close my eyes I saw beautiful scenes like a slide show, so the effect on the human brain can be very interesting. it just lasted a few minuets the doctor said it was the effect of the anesthetic and I believe that was the truth. I wonder if any atheist, Hindu, or person of other belief systems have ever saw Jesus,or had a NDE. Monavis [/QUOTE] The near death experiencers represent all races of people. All ages. All nationalities. All religions. No religion. Atheists. Theists. Agnostics. Educated. Uneducated. Rich. Poor. Leaders. Homeless. And yes, even the criminals. Murderers, thiefs and such. Near death experiences happen to people, where they are, who there are, doesn’t matter. Now the other question works like this. The experience must be passed through the belief filters of the individual experiencing it. I remember in one experience I had there was a seminar on “forgiveness.” The Light Being teaching the seminar I saw as Jesus, but others among the students taking the seminar saw the Light Being as Mohammed, Allah, Shiva, Elohim, Jehovah or whatever they had been taught. When you have a near death experience you bring your beliefs with you into the experience which makes each experience unique, but much the same. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2007, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-recreate-out-of-body-experience/416807/164 "2007-08-31T13:31:39Z")
[QUOTE=kanicbird] **Czarcasm** , It was a while ago, but here is a link to a devout atheist’s NDE of being in Hell, and saved by Jesus: [http://archive.southcoasttoday.com/daily/01-04/01-31-04/c04rg223.htm](http://archive.southcoasttoday.com/daily/01-04/01-31-04/c04rg223.htm) After a quick search I was not able to find accounts of people of one faith meeting figures of another, unless you count atheism as a faith system. [/QUOTE] Most people don’t. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2007, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-recreate-out-of-body-experience/416807/165 "2007-08-31T13:33:15Z")
[QUOTE=lekatt] The near death experiencers represent all races of people. All ages. All nationalities. All religions. No religion. Atheists. Theists. Agnostics. Educated. Uneducated. Rich. Poor. Leaders. Homeless. And yes, even the criminals. Murderers, thiefs and such. Near death experiences happen to people, where they are, who there are, doesn’t matter. Now the other question works like this. The experience must be passed through the belief filters of the individual experiencing it. I remember in one experience I had there was a seminar on “forgiveness.” The Light Being teaching the seminar I saw as Jesus, but others among the students taking the seminar saw the Light Being as Mohammed, Allah, Shiva, Elohim, Jehovah or whatever they had been taught. When you have a near death experience you bring your beliefs with you into the experience which makes each experience unique, but much the same. [/QUOTE] Did you get these ideas from some source we get look up, or did you make up this religion yourself? ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2007, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-recreate-out-of-body-experience/416807/166 "2007-08-31T13:33:35Z")
[QUOTE=Czarcasm] The way you’ve told it, your personal “experience” was only a dream. [/QUOTE] St. Jude again. Are you trolling? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2007, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-recreate-out-of-body-experience/416807/167 "2007-08-31T13:35:13Z")
[QUOTE=lekatt] No, it was not, you did not read it correctly. [/QUOTE] Would you mind telling us which MD diagnosed that you almost died when you dreamed you had an NDE? ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2007, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-recreate-out-of-body-experience/416807/168 "2007-08-31T13:43:10Z")
**Czarcasm** though I don’t have much time now to read this one in depth, here is a link to a study (or apparent study) of NDE and religious (and athiestistic) people and the effects. [http://www.nderf.org/religion\_spirituality.htm](http://www.nderf.org/religion_spirituality.htm) > [@](#): > > ABSTRACT: One of the last frontiers of study surrounds spirituality and NDE. However, this is a highly sensitive issue due to the nature of religion. What this study attempts to do is to objectively look at the data submitted by NDErs to the website and to categorize the answers. Questions that are analyzed include pre and post NDE religious preference, and changed beliefs. There are some surprising results that focus on universal purpose and order gained from NDE understandings. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2007, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-recreate-out-of-body-experience/416807/169 "2007-08-31T13:55:08Z")
[QUOTE=kanicbird] **Czarcasm** , It was a while ago, but here is a link to a devout atheist’s NDE of being in Hell, and saved by Jesus: [http://archive.southcoasttoday.com/daily/01-04/01-31-04/c04rg223.htm](http://archive.southcoasttoday.com/daily/01-04/01-31-04/c04rg223.htm) After a quick search I was not able to find accounts of people of one faith meeting figures of another, unless you count atheism as a faith system. [/QUOTE] There are many near death experiencers that were atheists, but are now spiritual. There are also many religious experiencers that were converted to just being spiritual. The teachings of the experience are love one another. I remember a story told by an experiencer’s wife. She said her husband was a regular church-goer, and after he recovered from his heart attack and a near death experience he went back to church. He listened to the pastor for awhile and then with tears running down his cheeks said “the preacher doesn’t understand”, he then got up and left, never to go to church again. Near death experiences are not looked upon favorable by either religion or science. Love is everything. ---
**Author:** ![hotflungwok](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/edb3f5/32.png) [@hotflungwok](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hotflungwok)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2007, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-recreate-out-of-body-experience/416807/170 "2007-08-31T13:58:55Z")
[QUOTE=kanicbird] **Czarcasm** though I don’t have much time now to read this one in depth, here is a link to a study (or apparent study) of NDE and religious (and athiestistic) people and the effects. [http://www.nderf.org/religion\_spirituality.htm](http://www.nderf.org/religion_spirituality.htm) [/QUOTE] The only thing the numbers look at is shifts in beliefs, and somehow the writer tries to make this into ‘NDEs are real and spiritual’. > [@](#): > > This study shows that spirituality and religion do play a big part in the perceptions of NDErs. They also provide a key towards integrating the NDE with the experiences on earth. In many ways this is very exciting, because it puts NDErs at the forefront of a spiritual movement. > [@](#): > > Unfortunately, those who are at level one or two on the spiritual-growth ladder, will use the standard rhetoric to discount the authenticity of NDE. They will do their best to discredit research or to keep mankind from evolving through the spiritual steps necessary for reunion with God. They weren’t actually doing a study to gain knowledge, they were just trying to reinforce their own beliefs with numbers, even though the numbers had nothing to do with whath they were trying to ‘prove’. Just like every other one we’ve seen. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2007, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-recreate-out-of-body-experience/416807/171 "2007-08-31T14:11:03Z")
[QUOTE=lekatt] I remember a story told by an experiencer’s wife. She said her husband was a regular church-goer, and after he recovered from his heart attack and a near death experience he went back to church. He listened to the pastor for awhile and then with tears running down his cheeks said “the preacher doesn’t understand”, he then got up and left, never to go to church again. [/QUOTE] It has been my experience that few preachers/pastures talk about spiritual matters, I’m not totally sure why, but some do understand. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2007, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-recreate-out-of-body-experience/416807/172 "2007-08-31T14:14:21Z")
[QUOTE=hotflungwok] The only thing the numbers look at is shifts in beliefs, and somehow the writer tries to make this into ‘NDEs are real and spiritual’. They weren’t actually doing a study to gain knowledge, they were just trying to reinforce their own beliefs with numbers, even though the numbers had nothing to do with whath they were trying to ‘prove’. Just like every other one we’ve seen. [/QUOTE] I will have to agree, don’t know what they are doing, but think they are trying to quantify emotions or changed lives. It is true experiencers do change lives after their experiences. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2007, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-recreate-out-of-body-experience/416807/173 "2007-08-31T15:33:47Z")
lekatt, I’m curious of what you opinion is on those who have NDE/OBE’s of revelations of Hell? ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2007, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-recreate-out-of-body-experience/416807/174 "2007-08-31T16:00:27Z")
[QUOTE=lekatt] St. Jude again. Are you trolling? [/QUOTE] You will not accuse other posters of trolling in this Forum. [/Moderating] ---
**Author:** ![Omegaman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/e480ec/32.png) [@Omegaman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omegaman)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2007, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-recreate-out-of-body-experience/416807/175 "2007-08-31T16:40:09Z")
[QUOTE=Czarcasm] Would you mind telling us which MD diagnosed that you almost died when you dreamed you had an NDE? [/QUOTE] What difference will that make? Is there a certain kind of doctor in your opinion qualified to make a calling in this area?. What kind of “hard evidence” are you expecting of an NDE or an OBE ? A rock from the other side? Overmore, I don’t know what kind evidence can be given at all. It’s a mans word. Either you can take it or you can’t. You can say it’s a dream or a delusion or whatever but only a man knows what’s in his heart. That’s why men fight and die and rob and steal and commit every manner of good and evil under the sun. Well it’s about faith anyway. I’ll go lay down by my bowl now. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2007, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-recreate-out-of-body-experience/416807/176 "2007-08-31T16:41:26Z")
[QUOTE=tomndebb] You will not accuse other posters of trolling in this Forum. [/Moderating] [/QUOTE] I didn’t accuse anyone of trolling, just asked a question. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2007, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-recreate-out-of-body-experience/416807/177 "2007-08-31T16:54:15Z")
[QUOTE=lekatt] I didn’t accuse anyone of trolling, just asked a question. [/QUOTE] In this context, as you well know, they are the same. I’m holding off regarding your St. Jude insults at the moment, but that sort of back door insult is not going to give me any reason to think that other insults are not deliberate. [/Moderating] ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2007, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-recreate-out-of-body-experience/416807/178 "2007-08-31T16:55:14Z")
[QUOTE=kanicbird] lekatt, I’m curious of what you opinion is on those who have NDE/OBE’s of revelations of Hell? [/QUOTE] Sure, I have talked to some of those people who have had negative experiences, monsters, devils, demons, and hellish. They have said the experience changed their lives in the same way a positive experience does. Made them more aware of God’s love and caring for them. Another thing I noticed was most of them were fundamental Christians, or had tried to commit suicide, and were very afraid of going to hell. A couple of them had overdosed on drugs. And a couple of them were Christian ministers. So, it seems to me that fear, and doing something they knew was wrong had an influence. But the good thing was they all learned something from the experience. If you wish to know what I think of hell and heaven, I believe them to be constructions of the mind, along with other monsters, and demons. I don’t believe God sends anyone to be punished in hell. But I do think if they believe they are going to hell, they will find their way into a kind of void where others will help them to understand how not to be there. I know the thing that makes most people mad is that bad people are not punished. But their mistakes are pointed out in a life review and they are given the chance to correct them. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2007, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-recreate-out-of-body-experience/416807/179 "2007-08-31T16:57:47Z")
JFTR: From [Rules for Posting at the Straight Dope Message Boards](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=7696935&postcount=2) > [@](#): > > Q: What should I do when I see someone “trolling” on the SDMB? > > A: Do NOT publicly accuse another poster of trolling. (The only exception to this is in the forum called BBQ Pit where it is permissible to use the term “troll” as an insult.) Elsewhere, do not accuse another poster of trolling. Instead, use the REPORT BAD POST button. Do not reply to the troll in any way in the thread, that only encourages them. > > **If you’re not sure whether the person is really a troll, treat the person as a user in good standing and REPORT the post.** Let the moderators decide. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2007, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-recreate-out-of-body-experience/416807/180 "2007-08-31T17:01:53Z")
[QUOTE=tomndebb] In this context, as you well know, they are the same. I’m holding off regarding your St. Jude insults at the moment, but that sort of back door insult is not going to give me any reason to think that other insults are not deliberate. [/Moderating] [/QUOTE] They are not the same. A question is a question and an accusation is an accusation. St. Jude is not an insult, He is the patron saint of lost causes which you well know. I made this post after being asked the same question time after time by you know who. Nothing said to him, of course. Look Tom why don’t you moderators just kick me off the board instead of harrassing me all the time. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-recreate-out-of-body-experience/416807.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-recreate-out-of-body-experience/416807.md?page=10)