# "Scientists say dolphins should be treated as 'non-human persons'" **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 6, 2010, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-say-dolphins-should-be-treated-as-non-human-persons/523936 "2010-01-06T19:12:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Chief\_Pedant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@Chief\_Pedant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chief_Pedant)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2010, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-say-dolphins-should-be-treated-as-non-human-persons/523936/21 "2010-01-07T01:00:12Z")
Under the premise that rights and personhood belong to the more intelligent, is the brightest dolphin accorded more status than, say, a mentally-challenged human? ---
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2010, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-say-dolphins-should-be-treated-as-non-human-persons/523936/22 "2010-01-07T01:27:03Z")
Science doesn’t pertain to morals, and ethicists aren’t scientists. Whoever wrote that article is very deeply confused. If intelligence is the yardstick of rights, I’ll start preparing to open my all-you-can-eat baby and retard buffet. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2010, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-say-dolphins-should-be-treated-as-non-human-persons/523936/23 "2010-01-07T01:50:37Z")
> [@Palo\_Verde](#): > > But I think Shakes has a good point in that if they are award some of the ‘rights’ of being a person, shouldn’t that come with responsibilities? What responsibilities? Young humans don’t have responsibilities, at least that are any of the public’s business. As a different species, we’d have to let them work out their unique social infractions their own way. ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2010, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-say-dolphins-should-be-treated-as-non-human-persons/523936/24 "2010-01-07T03:08:57Z")
If they really had person status, would they be subject to laws and government? And, Og help me, was Bill O’Reilly right that if we let gays marry, next someone will want to marry a porpoise? Could porpoises consent? ---
**Author:** ![Jinx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Jinx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jinx)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2010, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-say-dolphins-should-be-treated-as-non-human-persons/523936/25 "2010-01-07T03:40:14Z")
Maybe they were referring to the NFL team? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2010, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-say-dolphins-should-be-treated-as-non-human-persons/523936/26 "2010-01-07T04:56:54Z")
I think dolphins are cool, and won’t intentionally harm one. If I ever get a chance to do the “swimming with the dolphins” thing, I’m all over it. But considering them “non-human persons” is PETA level insanity. ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Buttons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@Mr\_Buttons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Buttons)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2010, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-say-dolphins-should-be-treated-as-non-human-persons/523936/27 "2010-01-07T05:07:14Z")
> [@Palo\_Verde](#): > > Be punished if they rape or murder other dolphins. And yes, it happens. If a male dolphin has raped a female in the past, should she be granted protection? Should he be isolated from others? > > What rights does the female have in this case? What responsibilities does the male have? > > Seems like treated them as a person has all kinds of messy implications. I will gladly volunteer to take part in our new “Dolphin Recidivism Facilities” for say… $20/hour(+govt benefits). The job qualifications are you must keep an eye on the dolphins, and make sure they don’t cross the 200 yards of land/barbed wire separating their prison pool from the general ocean. I must retain the right to kill any attempted escapees though. Ya gotta teach the other ones a lesson right? ---
**Author:** ![Lakai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9de0a6/32.png) [@Lakai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lakai)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2010, 6:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-say-dolphins-should-be-treated-as-non-human-persons/523936/28 "2010-01-07T06:29:42Z")
> [@Palo\_Verde](#): > > Be punished if they rape or murder other dolphins. And yes, it happens. If a male dolphin has raped a female in the past, should she be granted protection? Should he be isolated from others? > > What rights does the female have in this case? What responsibilities does the male have? > > Seems like treated them as a person has all kinds of messy implications. No one is asking to treat them like adult persons. But there is no reason not to give them the same rights afforded to human infants or humans that are legally incompetent to stand trial. > [@DrCube](#): > > Science doesn’t pertain to morals, and ethicists aren’t scientists. Whoever wrote that article is very deeply confused. If intelligence is the yardstick of rights, I’ll start preparing to open my all-you-can-eat baby and retard buffet. Just curious, but what would you use as a yard stick for rights if not intelligence? Would you give babies the same rights as adults? Would you hold infants responsible if they commit any crimes? ---
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2010, 6:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-say-dolphins-should-be-treated-as-non-human-persons/523936/29 "2010-01-07T06:52:16Z")
> [@Skammer](#): > > Next we’ll be seeing this: [Dolphins Evolve Opposable Thumbs: ‘Oh, Shit,’ Says Humanity](http://www.theonion.com/content/node/28315) Didn’t The Tick once stop dolphins from taking over the world? Or was that someone else? ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2010, 7:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-say-dolphins-should-be-treated-as-non-human-persons/523936/30 "2010-01-07T07:45:42Z")
> [@Lakai](#): > > No one is asking to treat them like adult persons. But there is no reason not to give them the same rights afforded to human infants or humans that are legally incompetent to stand trial. > > Just curious, but what would you use as a yard stick for rights if not intelligence? Would you give babies the same rights as adults? Would you hold infants responsible if they commit any crimes? But that’s just it. The reason kids are given so much leeway is their lack of intelligence. As that intelligence increases, they become more eligible for punishment. Since even a dog is smarter than a newborn, I’d say dolphins would have to be smarter than babies to be considered persons. But we don’t use intelligence, anyways. Mentally challenged humans are still full persons, no matter their intelligence. ---
**Author:** ![Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/half_man_half_wit/32/21766_2.png) [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Half_Man_Half_Wit)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2010, 9:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-say-dolphins-should-be-treated-as-non-human-persons/523936/31 "2010-01-07T09:24:25Z")
> [@SurrenderDorothy](#): > > The basic deal is, “right to life, liberty, and freedom from torture.” Call me a speciesist, but I’ll worry about dolphins, apes and the like once all of humanity gets in on that ‘basic deal’. ---
**Author:** ![CutterJohn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/91b2a8/32.png) [@CutterJohn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CutterJohn)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2010, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-say-dolphins-should-be-treated-as-non-human-persons/523936/32 "2010-01-07T13:09:22Z")
Its about time… They’ve been getting away with this happy go lucky ocean hippy lifestyle too long. Time to grow up, join the workforce, and pay taxes. Or… I suppose this means the odds of my enjoying a dolphin steak are even less likely, eh? ---
**Author:** ![BMalion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e274bd/32.png) [@BMalion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BMalion)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2010, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-say-dolphins-should-be-treated-as-non-human-persons/523936/33 "2010-01-07T13:16:08Z")
> [@DrCube](#): > > Science doesn’t pertain to morals, and ethicists aren’t scientists. Whoever wrote that article is very deeply confused. If intelligence is the yardstick of rights, I’ll start preparing to open my all-you-can-eat baby and retard buffet. Would there be an early-bird special? Or are birds persons too? ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2010, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-say-dolphins-should-be-treated-as-non-human-persons/523936/34 "2010-01-07T14:23:06Z")
> [@DrCube](#): > > If intelligence is the yardstick of rights, I’ll start preparing to open my all-you-can-eat baby and retard buffet. At the fancy restaurants you can bring your own retard for a small 'Corky’ge fee. [QUOTE=Chimera] Damned Cetaceans! They’ll be stealing our jobs next! [/QUOTE] I’m more worried about the dolphins stealing our wimen’ folk. Have you seen the size of their penises?:eek: ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2010, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-say-dolphins-should-be-treated-as-non-human-persons/523936/35 "2010-01-07T14:37:22Z")
Moving thread from IMHO to Great Debates. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2010, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-say-dolphins-should-be-treated-as-non-human-persons/523936/36 "2010-01-07T14:39:42Z")
I think a long term concern, if communications was possible and some form of negotiation and equality were being worked on would be the issue of Human Behavior, not Dolphin morality. We’ve driven several Dolphin species to extinction. We hunt, kill and eat them. We heavily pollute their environment, making them ill or destroying their ecosphere. We’re f’ing committing genocide and ecocide against them. And we’d have the right to judge them about their interpersonal behavior?? ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2010, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-say-dolphins-should-be-treated-as-non-human-persons/523936/37 "2010-01-07T14:57:53Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > We’re f’ing committing genocide and ecocide against them. And we’d have the right to judge them about their interpersonal behavior?? That’s true. Here, take these blankets to them. _whistles innocently_ ---
**Author:** ![erislover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/71e660/32.png) [@erislover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erislover)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2010, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-say-dolphins-should-be-treated-as-non-human-persons/523936/38 "2010-01-07T15:05:05Z")
> [@Lakai](#): > > But there is no reason not to give them the same rights afforded to human infants or humans that are legally incompetent to stand trial. We should not anthropomorphize dolphins. There is no reason to treat dolphins like humans. Asserting things is fun! Do you think dolphins are smart enough to support their arguments? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2010, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-say-dolphins-should-be-treated-as-non-human-persons/523936/39 "2010-01-07T15:22:20Z")
> [@bup](#): > > And, Og help me, was Bill O’Reilly right that if we let gays marry, next someone will want to marry a porpoise? I don’t expect this could pass legal challenge. [sub]The decision would defeat the porpoise[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2010, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-say-dolphins-should-be-treated-as-non-human-persons/523936/40 "2010-01-07T15:54:10Z")
I refuse to believe dolphins are smarter than chimps. By what standard? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-say-dolphins-should-be-treated-as-non-human-persons/523936.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-say-dolphins-should-be-treated-as-non-human-persons/523936.md?page=3)