# Scientists to cook world's first burger made with synthetic beef **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [August 3, 2013, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-to-cook-worlds-first-burger-made-with-synthetic-beef/665285 "2013-08-03T23:26:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2013, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-to-cook-worlds-first-burger-made-with-synthetic-beef/665285/1 "2013-08-03T23:26:45Z")
In a strange echo of some of the other meat-related threads floating around here lately… > [@](#): > > A corner of west London will see culinary and scientific history made on Monday when scientists cook and serve up the world’s first lab-grown beef burger… > > …growing meats in-vitro would use 35 per cent to 60 per cent less energy, emit 80 per cent to 95 per cent less greenhouse gas and use around 98 per cent less land than conventionally produced animal meat. (But what about material usage?) [Link.](http://www.theglobeandmail.com/technology/science/scientists-to-cook-worlds-first-in-vitro-beef-burger/article13584655/#dashboard/follows/) ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2013, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-to-cook-worlds-first-burger-made-with-synthetic-beef/665285/2 "2013-08-03T23:29:33Z")
Ugh! I hate coomed beef! ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2013, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-to-cook-worlds-first-burger-made-with-synthetic-beef/665285/3 "2013-08-03T23:31:05Z")
Could a mod please fix the typo in the title? I hate cooming beef. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2013, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-to-cook-worlds-first-burger-made-with-synthetic-beef/665285/4 "2013-08-03T23:35:43Z")
They didn’t mention that the burger cost a couple of million dollars. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2013, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-to-cook-worlds-first-burger-made-with-synthetic-beef/665285/5 "2013-08-03T23:42:34Z")
The article doesn’t mention hormones and antibiotics. I’m all for vat grown chow in principle, but I want to know what it was swimming in before I eat it. ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2013, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-to-cook-worlds-first-burger-made-with-synthetic-beef/665285/6 "2013-08-03T23:47:43Z")
I wonder whether there are any more scholarly articles out there detailing what they did to make the beef? ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2013, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-to-cook-worlds-first-burger-made-with-synthetic-beef/665285/7 "2013-08-03T23:49:11Z")
Is that kosher? More importantly, is it vegan? ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2013, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-to-cook-worlds-first-burger-made-with-synthetic-beef/665285/8 "2013-08-03T23:55:40Z")
“coom” changed to “cook.” ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2013, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-to-cook-worlds-first-burger-made-with-synthetic-beef/665285/9 "2013-08-04T00:16:01Z")
> [@samclem](#): > > “coom” changed to “cook.” Thank you! ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2013, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-to-cook-worlds-first-burger-made-with-synthetic-beef/665285/10 "2013-08-04T00:17:02Z")
> [@Ethilrist](#): > > Is that kosher? More importantly, is it vegan? Those are really good questions. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2013, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-to-cook-worlds-first-burger-made-with-synthetic-beef/665285/11 "2013-08-04T00:33:40Z")
> [@Sunspace](#): > > Those are really good questions. IANAR, but from what I know, if there are no “unkosher” ingredients involved in growing the meat, and if the original stem cells come from a kosher meat sample, there is no reason the resulting grown meat would not be kosher. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2013, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-to-cook-worlds-first-burger-made-with-synthetic-beef/665285/12 "2013-08-04T00:35:53Z")
The last time the topic of vat-grown meat came up (at the time, a hypothetical), some posters pointed out that it might violate the limb-of-the-living prohibition, and therefore be even more unkosher than ordinary tref. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2013, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-to-cook-worlds-first-burger-made-with-synthetic-beef/665285/13 "2013-08-04T00:47:16Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > The last time the topic of vat-grown meat came up (at the time, a hypothetical), some posters pointed out that it might violate the limb-of-the-living prohibition, and therefore be even more unkosher than ordinary tref. Well, I presume that the original stem cells would be taken from a dead animal. ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2013, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-to-cook-worlds-first-burger-made-with-synthetic-beef/665285/14 "2013-08-04T00:48:49Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Well, I presume that the original stem cells would be taken from a dead animal. I’m not sure that’s a good assumption. Can’t they take a tiny tissue sample from the living? What if you can get the stem cells from a blood sample? (I don’t know whether they float around in the blood.) Also, wouldn’t the stem cells themselves have to be living in order to be bred? ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2013, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-to-cook-worlds-first-burger-made-with-synthetic-beef/665285/15 "2013-08-04T00:59:49Z")
> [@Sunspace](#): > > I’m not sure that’s a good assumption. Can’t they take a tiny tissue sample from the living? What if you can get the stem cells from a blood sample? (I don’t know whether they float around in the blood.) Also, wouldn’t the stem cells themselves have to be living in order to be bred? When I said I presume so, I mean I presume that in order to make the “vat-grown” meat kosher, the original stem cells would have to be taken from a dead animal. The cells are living, but they are not a living animal, so the limb-of-the-living would not apply. ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2013, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-to-cook-worlds-first-burger-made-with-synthetic-beef/665285/16 "2013-08-04T01:01:22Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > When I said I presume so, I mean I presume that in order to make the “vat-grown” meat kosher, the original stem cells would have to be taken from a dead animal. The cells are living, but they are not a living animal, so the limb-of-the-living would not apply. Is it even _possible_ to get living cells from a dead animal? Edit: Now I’m confused about organ donors. ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2013, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-to-cook-worlds-first-burger-made-with-synthetic-beef/665285/17 "2013-08-04T01:19:00Z")
> [@Sunspace](#): > > Is it even _possible_ to get living cells from a dead animal? Sure. Every cell does not die at the moment that the animal does. Death, for a multicellular animal, is the moment when all the cells stop working together in a coordinated way. Individual cells can live on for quite a while after, especially if they are removed and cultured in the right conditions. If they are left in place they will eventually die from lack of food and oxygen, which, in vertebrates, are brought to them by the blood while the animal as a whole is alive. ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2013, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-to-cook-worlds-first-burger-made-with-synthetic-beef/665285/18 "2013-08-04T01:20:49Z")
> [@njtt](#): > > Sure. Every cell does not die at the moment that the animal does. Death, for a multicellular animal, is the moment when all the cells stop working together in a coordinated way. Individual cells can live on for quite a while after, especially if they are removed and cultured in the right conditions. If they are left in place they will eventually die from lack of food and oxygen, which, in vertebrates, are brought to them by the blood while the animal as a whole is alive. Ah, now I understand. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2013, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-to-cook-worlds-first-burger-made-with-synthetic-beef/665285/19 "2013-08-04T01:25:38Z")
One might also consider the lump of biomass growing in the vat to itself be a living animal, though, in which case slicing off a lump of that biomass while leaving the rest of it growing in the vat would be a problem. Though I suppose you could also just decant all of it at once and “kill” it properly before cutting it up and serving. The kosher question would also depend on the precise wording of the slaughter provisions in the Torah. If, for instance, the Law says that meat must come from an animal slaughtered in a particular way, then vat meat would not be kosher, but if it says that it must not come from an animal slaughtered in any way other than the prescribed way, then it might be. ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2013, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-to-cook-worlds-first-burger-made-with-synthetic-beef/665285/20 "2013-08-04T01:44:58Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > The kosher question would also depend on the precise wording of the slaughter provisions in the Torah. If, for instance, the Law says that meat must come from an animal slaughtered in a particular way, then vat meat would not be kosher, but if it says that it must not come from an animal slaughtered in any way other than the prescribed way, then it might be. A != (!(!A))? I do not understand. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-to-cook-worlds-first-burger-made-with-synthetic-beef/665285.md?page=2)