# Scientists Unveil Missing Link In Evolution, Darwins theory now confirmed. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 19, 2009, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-unveil-missing-link-in-evolution-darwins-theory-now-confirmed/496972 "2009-05-19T15:09:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2009, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-unveil-missing-link-in-evolution-darwins-theory-now-confirmed/496972/21 "2009-05-19T16:14:35Z")
[QUOTE=Whack-a-Mole] Not to hijack the thread but if a Creationist insists the earth was created 6,000 years ago then how else can they explain dinosaur bones other than “God put them there”? [/QUOTE] Though my response was tongue in cheek I already answered that…(some) creationist explain them by the great flood. IOW, dinosaurs and such were wandering about along side humans prior to the flood. For whatever reasons (God works in mysterious ways and all that) dinosaurs and mammoths and such didn’t survive the flood (maybe they were too big to fit on that big boat thingy), and so died and were rapidly buried when the flood waters, um…went away to where ever all that water came from in the first place. I HAVE heard the ‘God put them there’ explanation, but that is a really fringe thing even among creationists. > [@](#): > > We have cave paintings that old showing some animals from that time. I feel safe in saying if there were 20 foot tall toothy lizards running about (not to mention all the other big lizards) they’d have certainly gotten a mention by some human somewhere and somewhen. You are trying to use logic on an inherently irrational subject. -XT ---
**Author:** ![Chessic\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7c8e57/32.png) [@Chessic\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chessic_Sense)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2009, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-unveil-missing-link-in-evolution-darwins-theory-now-confirmed/496972/22 "2009-05-19T16:21:55Z")
> [@FriarTed](#): > > And I still have never heard any creationist claim the fossils were just placed there by God. HUH?!?! You’ve never heard [that](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omphalos_hypothesis) before? ---
**Author:** ![Regallag\_The\_Axe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/regallag_the_axe/32/445_2.png) [@Regallag\_The\_Axe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Regallag_The_Axe)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2009, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-unveil-missing-link-in-evolution-darwins-theory-now-confirmed/496972/23 "2009-05-19T16:29:39Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > Though my response was tongue in cheek I already answered that…(some) creationist explain them by the great flood. IOW, dinosaurs and such were wandering about along side humans prior to the flood. For whatever reasons (God works in mysterious ways and all that) dinosaurs and mammoths and such didn’t survive the flood (maybe they were too big to fit on that big boat thingy), and so died and were rapidly buried when the flood waters, um…went away to where ever all that water came from in the first place. Sorry to continue the hijack, but I once saw a creationist children’s book that claimed the dinosaurs _did_ survive the flood, but their food didn’t. Which is even more :dubious: worthy. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2009, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-unveil-missing-link-in-evolution-darwins-theory-now-confirmed/496972/24 "2009-05-19T16:36:29Z")
Would have been kind of funny to see a T-Rex (or a really big sauropod!) climbing the ramp up to the Arc…or attempting to swim about for 40 days and nights until the water all went away! 😛 (When I was a kid I had to go to CCD and they related the whole Noah’s Arc story. My seemingly counter intuitive question was…what happened to the fish? I got a lot of puzzled looks until I pointed out a few things…like silt in the water and the whole fresh water vs salt water thingy. When I started asking where the water came from and went too I was told to shut up and just listen…) -XT ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2009, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-unveil-missing-link-in-evolution-darwins-theory-now-confirmed/496972/25 "2009-05-19T16:42:33Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > …I HAVE heard the ‘God put them there’ explanation, but that is a really fringe thing even among creationists. Wow! A fringe of a fringe. That’s pretty fringey (fringy? fringe-y?). At some point, there’s just this one guy who claims that God put them there at precisely 3:31:08 AM on Thursday, June 14, 4003 BC. ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2009, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-unveil-missing-link-in-evolution-darwins-theory-now-confirmed/496972/26 "2009-05-19T16:47:37Z")
Yes, this is the final missing piece for all those people who already accepted that humans evolved from other apes, and apes are an offshoot of monkeys, but who always contended that primates did not evolve from other mammals. The woefully undersung ‘primates are special’ branch of fundamentalists. ---
**Author:** ![Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aji_de_gallina/32/260_2.png) [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aji_de_Gallina)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2009, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-unveil-missing-link-in-evolution-darwins-theory-now-confirmed/496972/27 "2009-05-19T16:54:02Z")
Well, (collective) you’ve managed to transform a nice thread into a groupwank attacking non-present fundamentalists. Do you miss them? Can we have a nice evolution discussion without someone “filling in” for the Creationists? If they don’t want to say anything, please let’s go to the science. Nice find ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2009, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-unveil-missing-link-in-evolution-darwins-theory-now-confirmed/496972/28 "2009-05-19T16:56:15Z")
> [@](#): > > That’s pretty cool…transitional forms are really rare. Really? Could you give us an example of an organism that _isn’t_ a transitional form? I suppose that technically, the last generation of a species that went extinct could be put in that category, but those would be far outnumbered by the transitional forms. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2009, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-unveil-missing-link-in-evolution-darwins-theory-now-confirmed/496972/29 "2009-05-19T16:56:24Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > Wow! A fringe of a fringe. That’s pretty fringey (fringy? fringe-y?). At some point, there’s just this one guy who claims that God put them there at precisely 3:31:08 AM on Thursday, June 14, 4003 BC. 4004 BC. Harumph! ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2009, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-unveil-missing-link-in-evolution-darwins-theory-now-confirmed/496972/30 "2009-05-19T16:58:22Z")
> [@bup](#): > > Yes, this is the final missing piece for all those people who already accepted that humans evolved from other apes, and apes are an offshoot of monkeys, but who always contended that primates did not evolve from other mammals. > > The woefully undersung ‘primates are special’ branch of fundamentalists. Zing! ---
**Author:** ![Darwins\_Finch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darwins_finch/32/20304_2.png) [@Darwins\_Finch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darwins_Finch)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2009, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-unveil-missing-link-in-evolution-darwins-theory-now-confirmed/496972/31 "2009-05-19T17:02:03Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > Huh…and I was always rather fond of Darwin’s Finch… > > -XT Ah, thanks! I’m rather fond of you too! 😃 > [@skynews article](#): > > Researchers say proof of this transitional species finally confirms Charles Darwin’s theory of evolution, and the then radical, outlandish ideas he came up with during his time aboard the Beagle. _Finally_?! Where have these “researchers” been for the past 150 years…? ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2009, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-unveil-missing-link-in-evolution-darwins-theory-now-confirmed/496972/32 "2009-05-19T17:06:35Z")
[QUOTE=Chronos] Really? Could you give us an example of an organism that isn’t a transitional form? I suppose that technically, the last generation of a species that went extinct could be put in that category, but those would be far outnumbered by the transitional forms. [/QUOTE] True…‘transitional form’ in a modern context could basically mean anything. When I took anthropology and archeology in college (lo these many years ago) it meant something like a species on the cusp of branching off from it’s former line. I’m sorry if my loose (and outdated) definition offended you there. The specimen IS really rare FWIW. -XT ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2009, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-unveil-missing-link-in-evolution-darwins-theory-now-confirmed/496972/33 "2009-05-19T17:09:18Z")
Hehe, how many eighth wonders of the world are there? ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2009, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-unveil-missing-link-in-evolution-darwins-theory-now-confirmed/496972/34 "2009-05-19T17:10:24Z")
> [@bup](#): > > Yes, this is the final missing piece for all those people who already accepted that humans evolved from other apes, and apes are an offshoot of monkeys, but who always contended that primates did not evolve from other mammals. > > The woefully undersung ‘primates are special’ branch of fundamentalists. My ancestor may have been an ape! Or even a monkey! But it darned sure wasn’t some stupid little lemur! No-sirree-Bob! Actually, claiming that humans and anthropoid primates are a Biblical “kind” seems like it would be pretty consistent with the world of some Young Earth Creationists, where [tigers and housecats](http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/zoo/tiger) apparently diverged by “micro”(!)evolution within the last _10,000 years!_ Except that of course we must never, ever, ever acknowledge any kinship with the chimpanzees. ---
**Author:** ![TooSchoolforCool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tooschoolforcool/32/19621_2.png) [@TooSchoolforCool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TooSchoolforCool)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2009, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-unveil-missing-link-in-evolution-darwins-theory-now-confirmed/496972/35 "2009-05-19T17:13:22Z")
Arg, I HATE these sorts of headlines. “Now confirmed”??? Grrr… This does look to be a pretty amazing find. But I’m not particularly happy that the news was broken like this, with blaring headlines about missing links and Darwin’s theory somehow being deficient until THIS one new fossil, which clears everything up. ---
**Author:** ![Darwins\_Finch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darwins_finch/32/20304_2.png) [@Darwins\_Finch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darwins_Finch)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2009, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-unveil-missing-link-in-evolution-darwins-theory-now-confirmed/496972/36 "2009-05-19T17:16:35Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > True…‘transitional form’ in a modern context could basically mean anything. When I took anthropology and archeology in college (lo these many years ago) it meant something like a species on the cusp of branching off from it’s former line. I’m sorry if my loose (and outdated) definition offended you there. The specimen IS really rare FWIW. > > -XT Strictly speaking, most fossil specimens are rare. As for your definition of “transitional form”, that’s not really something that can be divined from the fossil record. We can only see species after they have already “become”. In order to see a population on the verge of speciation, we’d have to have a much larger pool of fossils to work with. Unfortunately, most fossil species are known only from a single specimen (often fragmentary - in that respect, finding a nearly complete fossil such as this is a rare find), so we can’t determine anything about how close the specimen is to the speciation event that gave rise to it. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2009, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-unveil-missing-link-in-evolution-darwins-theory-now-confirmed/496972/37 "2009-05-19T17:21:05Z")
[QUOTE=Darwin’s Finch] Strictly speaking, most fossil specimens are rare. [/QUOTE] Agreed. My understanding is that this is a nearly intact specimen…which is sort of like getting hit by a meteor after winning the lottery. > [@](#): > > As for your definition of “transitional form”, that’s not really something that can be divined from the fossil record. We can only see species after they have already “become”. In order to see a population on the verge of speciation, we’d have to have a much larger pool of fossils to work with. Unfortunately, most fossil species are known only from a single specimen (often fragmentary - in that respect, finding a nearly complete fossil such as this is a rare find), so we can’t determine anything about how close the specimen is to the speciation event that gave rise to it. I agree. My major wasn’t archeology or anthropology…I took the courses because the subject interested me and because the engineering college at the time wanted ‘well rounded engineers’ so required a certain number of humanities type electives. I have a very History Channel level knowledge of the subject…and I was talking pretty loose there even for that. -XT ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2009, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-unveil-missing-link-in-evolution-darwins-theory-now-confirmed/496972/38 "2009-05-19T17:21:50Z")
This discovery definitely raises my confidence in the existence of evolution from 100% all the way to 100%. It also dropped by trust in the media’s ability to get a science story correct from 0% all the way to 0%. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2009, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-unveil-missing-link-in-evolution-darwins-theory-now-confirmed/496972/39 "2009-05-19T17:24:09Z")
BTW…if anyone is interested in the whole transitional fossils thingy (and didn’t feel like looking it up for themselves), here is a [wiki](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transitional_fossil) article on it: > [@](#): > > Transitional fossils are the fossilized remains of intermediary forms of life that illustrate an evolutionary transition. They can be identified by their retention of certain primitive (plesiomorphic) traits in comparison with their more derived relatives, as they are defined in the study of cladistics. “Missing link” is a popular term for transitional forms. Numerous examples exist, including those of primates and early humans. > > According to modern evolutionary theory, all populations of organisms are in transition. Therefore, a “transitional form” is a human construct of a selected form that vividly represents a particular evolutionary stage, as recognized in hindsight. Contemporary “transitional” forms may be called “living fossils”, but on a cladogram representing the historical divergences of life-forms, a “transitional fossil” will represent an organism at the point where individual lineages (clades) diverge. -XT ---
**Author:** ![Cumberdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8c91f0/32.png) [@Cumberdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cumberdale)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2009, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-unveil-missing-link-in-evolution-darwins-theory-now-confirmed/496972/40 "2009-05-19T17:31:13Z")
The headline is bad, bit it is a fascinating find. Scientists frequently make “predictions” on various future finds and discoveries and often are proven to be correct. If any religionista, psuedo scientist or woo-woo believer had anywhere near the same success rate, then they would deserve some consideration. Alas, they don’t and deserve to be written off as primitive, backward thinking cranks. > **[Using trees to make predictions about fossils: The whale’s ankle -...](https://evolution.berkeley.edu/phylogenetic-systematics/using-trees/using-trees-to-make-predictions-about-fossils-the-whales-ankle/)** > > Scientists used to think that whales' ancestors were now-extinct carnivores called mesonychids. However, based on recent findings, scientists have hypothesized that whales are actually more closely related to hoofed mammals like hippos and ruminants... [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-unveil-missing-link-in-evolution-darwins-theory-now-confirmed/496972.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-unveil-missing-link-in-evolution-darwins-theory-now-confirmed/496972.md?page=3)