# Scientists Unveil Missing Link In Evolution, Darwins theory now confirmed. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 19, 2009, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-unveil-missing-link-in-evolution-darwins-theory-now-confirmed/496972 "2009-05-19T15:09:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2009, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-unveil-missing-link-in-evolution-darwins-theory-now-confirmed/496972/41 "2009-05-19T17:54:04Z")
> [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > Well, (collective) you’ve managed to transform a nice thread into a groupwank attacking non-present fundamentalists. Do you miss them? Can we have a nice evolution discussion without someone “filling in” for the Creationists? If they don’t want to say anything, please let’s go to the science. > Nice find So where’s the debate in the OP? Whether or not the alleged fossil is photoshopped? :rolleyes: Absent a religious angle, “Neat new fossil found!” impresses me as far more of an MPSIMS than a GD. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2009, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-unveil-missing-link-in-evolution-darwins-theory-now-confirmed/496972/42 "2009-05-19T18:01:15Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > :dubious: I thought the current theory was that all the ‘fossils’ were laid down during the great flood (I concede this was seemingly around 6000 years ago). I think your theory is seriously flawed, and hopelessly behind the times, Whack-a-Mole… > > -XT No, no. [Here’s](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omphalos_hypothesis) the Straight Dope! ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2009, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-unveil-missing-link-in-evolution-darwins-theory-now-confirmed/496972/43 "2009-05-19T18:10:33Z")
This reminds me of a philosophy class I took a few years back. The professor had originally been an archaeology/paleontology major whose goal in life was to “find the missing link.” She took a took a philosophy class as an elective and somehow adopted some weird hybrid of deism and creationism, and became convinced evolution was wrong and she’d never find the missing link because there wasn’t one. It was really frustrating having to pretend to agree with her to pass the class, and yes she did give bad grades to people who disagreed. ---
**Author:** ![TooSchoolforCool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tooschoolforcool/32/19621_2.png) [@TooSchoolforCool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TooSchoolforCool)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2009, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-unveil-missing-link-in-evolution-darwins-theory-now-confirmed/496972/44 "2009-05-19T18:38:48Z")
My favorite bit of headline idiocy is something along the lines of “fossil hailed as our common ancestor.” Uh, common ancestor with WHAT in particular??? It’s like saying “man hailed as closest living relative” without saying to whom. I’ve [jotted down my skepticism here](http://thatshallowfellow.wordpress.com/2009/05/19/introducing-ida-major-primate-fossil-find-for-evolution-sketchy-salesmanship/). Too many things are being confused all together, and it’s really setting scientists up for a big black eye. The fossil, if legit, is definitely one more piece for common descent… but we never really needed more in the first place, it was already well established. It is one more piece of evidence for human being’s place in the ancestry of primates… but ditto. It does certainly help fill in a previously murky period of primate evolution, and that’s great. But it’s also being used to make an argument about a particular arrangement of ancestries, and that, on the other hand, remains to be seen. The way this was rolled out, kept under wraps and then done by press release before critics of this particular theory had a chance to even hear about it, much less publish articles about it, gives me the willies. Scientists shouldn’t be trying to lobby for their theories in the media and to the public before everyone else in the field has had time to debate things out and come to a pretty stable consensus. ---
**Author:** ![Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aji_de_gallina/32/260_2.png) [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aji_de_Gallina)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2009, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-unveil-missing-link-in-evolution-darwins-theory-now-confirmed/496972/45 "2009-05-19T18:49:19Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > So where’s the debate in the OP? Whether or not the alleged fossil is photoshopped? :rolleyes: > > Absent a religious angle, “Neat new fossil found!” impresses me as far more of an MPSIMS than a GD. Agreed, not much of a debate except wether it is a trasitional form or a “missing loink”, but it’s like socking-by-proxy to invent the possible responses of absent people. ---
**Author:** ![Darwins\_Finch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darwins_finch/32/20304_2.png) [@Darwins\_Finch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darwins_Finch)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2009, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-unveil-missing-link-in-evolution-darwins-theory-now-confirmed/496972/46 "2009-05-19T18:50:20Z")
The paper describing the critter is available for free online at [PLoS ONE](http://www.plosone.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0005723), should anyone want to see the original paper, rather than rely on news sources. It’s been named _Darwinius masillae_. ---
**Author:** ![Darwins\_Finch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darwins_finch/32/20304_2.png) [@Darwins\_Finch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darwins_Finch)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2009, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-unveil-missing-link-in-evolution-darwins-theory-now-confirmed/496972/47 "2009-05-19T18:54:44Z")
> [@TooSchoolforCool](#): > > The way this was rolled out, kept under wraps and then done by press release before critics of this particular theory had a chance to even hear about it, much less publish articles about it, gives me the willies. Scientists shouldn’t be trying to lobby for their theories in the media and to the public before everyone else in the field has had time to debate things out and come to a pretty stable consensus. In general, no new species is made known to more than a handful of people prior to being published. So the “critics” don’t get a chance to hear about it any sooner than anyone else, in most cases. And, as I noted above, the official paper has just been published, so the criticisms (if any) will start showing up in the near future. The only difference between this and any other find is that the AMNH decided to do a big exhibit roll-out concurrently with the paper. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2009, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-unveil-missing-link-in-evolution-darwins-theory-now-confirmed/496972/48 "2009-05-19T19:00:38Z")
> [@TooSchoolforCool](#): > > The way this was rolled out, kept under wraps and then done by press release before critics of this particular theory had a chance to even hear about it, much less publish articles about it, gives me the willies. Scientists shouldn’t be trying to lobby for their theories in the media and to the public before everyone else in the field has had time to debate things out and come to a pretty stable consensus. While not in the best interests of being scientific if this fossil cost them $1 million to obtain perhaps they hope to cash in somehow with this big “revelation”. ---
**Author:** ![PhiloVance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e19adc/32.png) [@PhiloVance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhiloVance)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2009, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-unveil-missing-link-in-evolution-darwins-theory-now-confirmed/496972/49 "2009-05-19T19:02:15Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > Hehe, how many eighth wonders of the world are there? Probably hundreds, at least. What I’d like to know are the first seven. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2009, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-unveil-missing-link-in-evolution-darwins-theory-now-confirmed/496972/50 "2009-05-19T19:10:16Z")
That’s easy: The Pyramids, the Mausoleum, the Hanging Gardens, the Temple of Diana, the Colossus, the Pharos, and the Statue of Zeus. The Pyramids are the only surviving wonder. ---
**Author:** ![KGS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/90ced4/32.png) [@KGS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KGS)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2009, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-unveil-missing-link-in-evolution-darwins-theory-now-confirmed/496972/51 "2009-05-19T19:11:44Z")
This “missing link” isn’t likely to convince any hard-core creationist. They will demand to see yet another link between monkeys and monkey-lemurs, or lemurs and monkey-lemurs. Used to be the “missing link” was the void between chimps and humans, and the discovery of the Australopithecus fossil “Lucy” did nothing to convince creationists that evolution is real. And yes, it’s a common claim among fundies that God actually created these old-looking fossils just to “test our faith” and tempt us into worship Satan…that was a standard explanation at my church while growing up. :rolleyes: > [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > 4004 BC. Harumph! [Sunday, October 23rd, 4004 B.C.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ussher_chronology), to be precise. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2009, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-unveil-missing-link-in-evolution-darwins-theory-now-confirmed/496972/52 "2009-05-19T19:32:57Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > God put that “fossil” there 6,000 years ago. > > Duh. No, it was the devil. He put it there to confuse us. Kirk Cameron said so. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2009, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-unveil-missing-link-in-evolution-darwins-theory-now-confirmed/496972/53 "2009-05-19T20:31:41Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > That’s easy: The Pyramids, the Mausoleum, the Hanging Gardens, the Temple of Diana, the Colossus, the Pharos, and the Statue of Zeus. The Pyramids are the only surviving wonder. I thought those were quite specifically the seven wonders of the _ancient_ world. What are the seven wonders of the _modern_ world? ---
**Author:** ![Nars\_Glinley](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nars_glinley/32/8177_2.png) [@Nars\_Glinley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nars_Glinley)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2009, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-unveil-missing-link-in-evolution-darwins-theory-now-confirmed/496972/54 "2009-05-19T21:16:59Z")
> [@KGS](#): > > This “missing link” isn’t likely to convince any hard-core creationist. This “missing link” won’t even convince the tarsier people. [QUOTE=WSJ] Scientists won’t necessarily agree about the details either. “Lemur advocates will be delighted, but tarsier advocates will be underwhelmed” by the new evidence, says Tim White, a paleontologist at the University of California, Berkeley. “The debate will persist.” [/QUOTE] ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2009, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-unveil-missing-link-in-evolution-darwins-theory-now-confirmed/496972/55 "2009-05-19T21:33:18Z")
I’ve DONE IT! I’ve found the [Missing Link](http://timchuma.com/twitsgivemetheshits/HybernatorsTwitsPOP120807/photos/photo22.html)… -XT ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2009, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-unveil-missing-link-in-evolution-darwins-theory-now-confirmed/496972/56 "2009-05-19T21:43:25Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > I thought those were quite specifically the seven wonders of the _ancient_ world. What are the seven wonders of the _modern_ world? There’s no such canonical list. See [Wonders of the World - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wonders_of_the_World) for a dozen or so lists of seven wonders of various worlds. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2009, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-unveil-missing-link-in-evolution-darwins-theory-now-confirmed/496972/57 "2009-05-19T21:47:20Z")
NM ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2009, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-unveil-missing-link-in-evolution-darwins-theory-now-confirmed/496972/58 "2009-05-19T22:04:07Z")
> [@TooSchoolforCool](#): > > My favorite bit of headline idiocy is something along the lines of “fossil hailed as our common ancestor.” Uh, common ancestor with WHAT in particular??? It’s like saying “man hailed as closest living relative” without saying to whom. I don’t think you quite understand how the word “ancestor” works. ---
**Author:** ![Bruce\_Wayne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bruce\_Wayne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bruce_Wayne)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2009, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-unveil-missing-link-in-evolution-darwins-theory-now-confirmed/496972/59 "2009-05-20T01:18:47Z")
Another nail in the coffin of creationism. I hope it just keeps piling on. ---
**Author:** ![TooSchoolforCool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tooschoolforcool/32/19621_2.png) [@TooSchoolforCool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TooSchoolforCool)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2009, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-unveil-missing-link-in-evolution-darwins-theory-now-confirmed/496972/60 "2009-05-20T01:53:22Z")
> [@Darwins\_Finch](#): > > In general, no new species is made known to more than a handful of people prior to being published. So the “critics” don’t get a chance to hear about it any sooner than anyone else, in most cases. And, as I noted above, the official paper has just been published, so the criticisms (if any) will start showing up in the near future. The only difference between this and any other find is that the AMNH decided to do a big exhibit roll-out concurrently with the paper. And a media storm full of bullshit that scientists are going to have to walk back, complete with gloating creationists. But maybe that’s not the fault of the scientists themselves. Still, a website and a film, all kept under wraps until the big launch? Lobbying the public and the media to jump unto your particular clade-theory bandwagon (which this fossil may help with, but certainly doesn’t come close to ending the debate on) is not the sort of thing I like seeing. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-unveil-missing-link-in-evolution-darwins-theory-now-confirmed/496972.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-unveil-missing-link-in-evolution-darwins-theory-now-confirmed/496972.md?page=4)