# Scientists Who Are Actually Stupid **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 26, 2016, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-who-are-actually-stupid/744306 "2016-01-26T21:33:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2016, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-who-are-actually-stupid/744306/61 "2016-01-27T15:07:09Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > Why not? > > It was a lot more than just particulate matter that the EPA was successfully able to curtail, it was SO2 and nitrous oxides that contribute to acid rain. The soot particulates belching out of smokestacks are simply the symbolic visible manifestation of pollution. See my abortion pictures /mangled baby bodies comment above. Someone might well claim that those pictures are simply the symbolic visible representation of abortion. But the flaw in that claim is that it _unfairly_, inaccurately, represents abortion. And succeeds by creating visceral disgust instead of an understanding of the actual issues in play. So, too, with the belching smokestacks. You’re right that the EPA has been effective in a wide range of pollution control, well beyond visible dirty smoke. But the photo works because viewers react viscerally, not in response to knowledge about the reversal of acid rain. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2016, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-who-are-actually-stupid/744306/62 "2016-01-27T15:42:28Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I very much appreciate this post. There’s an unfortunate tendency here to concede error either (a) never, or (b) pried from the cold dead hands of the poster. It is much appreciated to see this, where someone can say, “Yeah, Ok, maybe this was veer the top,” Politics is something I really don’t understand much of beyond the surface and when it gets too deep I just start following my logical train of thought…often times that doesn’t work. When it comes to politics, especially arm chair politicians, logic usually has no part in the arguments. A friend of mine, very very outspoken and very very right posted something the other day. I should mention that he’s also very very smart, but when he gets really riled up when it comes to politics. Anyways, the other day he posted something (a meme maybe?) about how if guns should only be in the hands of the police then we should all get rid of our fire extinguishers. Yeah, that makes sense. The guy is one of the top lawyers in the area that he lives in, but logic just falls apart when he’s trying to talk about politics. I did like it when he slammed Obama for holding a coffee cup instead of saluting and when I posted a picture of Bush doing, literally, the same thing (holding a dog instead of saluting) he came back with “that’s not at all the same”. Yeah, buddy, it is the same. Honestly, I don’t care, but I just think it’s funny that for just about anything you can ‘blame Obama’ for, there’s a GOP pres that probably did the same thing. But point it out and you’re the asshole. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2016, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-who-are-actually-stupid/744306/63 "2016-01-27T16:44:46Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Yes. This is a fair summary of what I believe: that God exists, that He was responsible for the events we call The Big Bang, and by that table break sent the balls over the universal billiards table in ways that ultimately resulted in the current universe. In that universe, the physical laws exist that caused our solar system to form, through an unknown but natural event triggered life on Earth, and such life grew and changed by virtue of natural selection, with successful forms reproducing and mutations introducing changes to allow even more successful forms to appear and reproduce. > > That’s consistent with Catholic teaching. > > It’s not Old Earth Creationism. > > Do you agree? > > Now, you said: > Was that right, or wrong? > > Can you admit error, like a scientist should? What error? As I pointed “Catholics do not shy away from calling the beginning of the universe the moment of _ **creation** _”, indeed, a very \*\*\*old \*\*\*event according to scientists and Mainstream Catholics. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2016, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-who-are-actually-stupid/744306/64 "2016-01-27T16:44:47Z")
As I recall, the outrage factories geared up because Obama somewhat clumsily returned a salute while holding a cup. The Bush salute pictures are funnier just because small dogs are (usually) funny. In either event, when met with complainers who obviously care little if their complaints make sense or not, responding with anything stronger than mockery is wasted effort. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2016, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-who-are-actually-stupid/744306/65 "2016-01-27T16:49:13Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > This post is fallacious. I am a Catholic, and I am not an old Earth creationist. Read what I posted, I already did clarify that I do know that there is are lot of opinions regarding the time when creation/big bang took place. Regardless, Mainstream Catholics, and specially the leadership, do agree on that taking place a long time ago… In a galaxy far awa… Oops, wrong saga. ;)🙂 ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2016, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-who-are-actually-stupid/744306/66 "2016-01-27T17:17:05Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Yes. This is a fair summary of what I believe: that God exists, that He was responsible for the events we call The Big Bang, and by that table break sent the balls over the universal billiards table in ways that ultimately resulted in the current universe. In that universe, the physical laws exist that caused our solar system to form, through an unknown but natural event triggered life on Earth, and such life grew and changed by virtue of natural selection, with successful forms reproducing and mutations introducing changes to allow even more successful forms to appear and reproduce. > > That’s consistent with Catholic teaching. > > It’s not Old Earth Creationism. > > Do you agree? > > Now, you said: > Was that right, or wrong? > > Can you admit error, like a scientist should? You just described [Old Earth Creationism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Earth_creationism)–specifically evolutionary creationism, aka [theistic evolution](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theistic_evolution). If you believe God created the universe, but agree that the Earth is not 6000 years old, you are an Old Earth Creationist. What you described is exactly my belief, and I call myself an Old Earth Creationist. What an odd thing to get hung up on. ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2016, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-who-are-actually-stupid/744306/67 "2016-01-27T20:02:54Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Ben Carson is not a scientist, he’s a former brain surgeon. That’s a highly technical specialty, but it’s not science in the sense of “adding to mankind’s body of knowledge about the universe”. If you need a brain surgeon it doesn’t matter if he believes in evolution or not, or is aware the Earth goes around the Sun rather than vice versa, what matters is his technical skills. By the standards of the article, which includes Bill Nye, he counts, and I would expect him at least fair game. And as a person who uses science to do his job, I’d hope he’d be a little less disingenuous. > [@Bricker](#): > > that He was responsible for the events we call The Big Bang Which was first discovered/theorized by a priest. Who as far as I know, only couched his theory in scientific terms. > [@BigT](#): > > You just described [Old Earth Creationism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Earth_creationism)–specifically evolutionary creationism, aka [theistic evolution](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theistic_evolution). If you believe God created the universe, but agree that the Earth is not 6000 years old, you are an Old Earth Creationist. > > What you described is exactly my belief, and I call myself an Old Earth Creationist. > > What an odd thing to get hung up on. The distinction is that TE doesn’t require a meddling tinkerer of a god, whereas most OEC theories allow for microevolution, but don’t think that single cell organisms evolved into multicellular evolved into aquatic life evolved into land animals evolved into primates evolved into humans. And a OEC biology class would talk about God and creation, whereas a class in a school that adheres to TE probably wouldn’t even mention God unless it is relevant to the discussion of Scopes and things like that. On preview, how odd, Wikipedia has completely changed their terminology and it looks like your post is based on that and not a fundamental misunderstanding. But to be clear, no matter what Wikipedia decides to go with, TE is Darwininan in nature whereas the beliefs of many evangelical Christians and groups like Old Earth Ministries (formerly Answers in Creation but changed to avoid association with YEC Answers in Genesis) require divine intervention. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2016, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-who-are-actually-stupid/744306/68 "2016-01-27T22:30:11Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > Bill Nye isn’t a scientist, he’s a science educator. Different job. And when you stop and think about it, having a BS in mechanical engineering is probably MORE than enough formal scientific education to accomplish it in spades, much less a PhD in astrophysics from Columbia. Most of what they do is to explain scientific procedure and ways of thinking to people who probably had their science classes taught by a football coach or other unqualified person and/or slept through them. Likely they were underfunded as well. So all they really have to do is be able to explain the scientific method, explain why it’s important, be able to explain BASIC scientific concepts like Newton’s 3rd Law, and how it affects things. Beyond that, it’s a matter of being telegenic/photogenic, being a halfway decent writer, and being able to come up with clever visual aids and what-not. Being a serious scientist isn’t really necessary. Look at Mythbusters; those guys aren’t scientists at all, but they do much of the same sorts of things as NdGT and Nye. Hell, I have a computer science BS, a MBA, and a MS in Information Technology, and I could probably be an effective science educator. Certainly nothing they write or go on TV about is beyond my scientific education so far. ---
**Author:** ![jasg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f0a364/32.png) [@jasg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasg)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2016, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-who-are-actually-stupid/744306/69 "2016-01-27T23:59:33Z")
The title of this thread immediately took me to [William Shockley](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Shockley#Political_views), a brilliant physicist, co-inventor of the transistor and Silicon Valley. However, when he stepped outside the world of physics, I would argue for stupidity. ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2016, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-who-are-actually-stupid/744306/70 "2016-01-28T00:38:21Z")
> [@jasg](#): > > The title of this thread immediately took me to [William Shockley](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Shockley#Political_views), a brilliant physicist, co-inventor of the transistor and Silicon Valley. However, when he stepped outside the world of physics, I would argue for stupidity. Or DNA co-discoverer James Watson, who has some very odd and controversial beliefs. Some similar to Shockley. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2016, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-who-are-actually-stupid/744306/71 "2016-01-28T00:48:05Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > Bill Nye isn’t a scientist, he’s a science educator. Different job. I originally wanted to point at this, but got distracted, well said. And also to mention that Bill Nye has, in more than on occasion, clarified that he is not a scientist. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/8-eIy4oAV3I/maxresdefault.jpg "How Bill Nye Became "The Science Guy" | Big Think") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8-eIy4oAV3I) So, Milo is just using the old tactic of pseudo scientists that try to make their opponents sound mischievous when the pseudo scientist is the one who is. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2016, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-who-are-actually-stupid/744306/72 "2016-01-28T01:45:54Z")
People who are obsessed with the qualifications/degrees of the scientists with whom they identify tend not to care about the lack of evidence backing those scientists’ claims. They are also apt to believe that the vast weight of countervailing opinion among scientists represents “bias”, "politics or shilling for corporate interests. In addition, they have trouble recognizing that being a scientist means less when one is making claims in a field in which one lacks training and expertise. I’m not that familiar with Tyson or Nye. If in fact it’s possible to demolish their arguments using facts and they don’t admit error, then attacking them as stupid might have merit. If on the other hand they promote sound science, then I don’t care if they have fewer or less impressive degrees than someone promoting woo, who might be very bright but believes in stupid things.\* \*examples include Tetyana Obukhanych, PhD in immunology (and antivaxer), Don Huber (PhD in plant pathology and anti-GMOer), Peter Duesberg (PhD molecular biologist and AIDS denier), various climate change deniers etc. etc. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2016, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-who-are-actually-stupid/744306/73 "2016-01-28T02:00:18Z")
Isaac Newton spent a great deal of his time unlocking the secrets of the universe with Alchemy and the Philospoher’s Stone, which even for the time was in woo territory. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2016, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-who-are-actually-stupid/744306/74 "2016-01-28T04:35:29Z")
By the way, [this](http://mx1.politicususa.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/bush-dog-3.jpg) is my favourite “Bush dog salute” image, because Barney’s pose reminds me of [Washington Crossing the Delaware](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washington_Crossing_the_Delaware#/media/File:Emanuel_Leutze_(American,_Schw%C3%A4bisch_Gm%C3%BCnd_1816%E2%80%931868_Washington,_D.C.)_-_Washington_Crossing_the_Delaware_-_Google_Art_Project.jpg) for some reason. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2016, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-who-are-actually-stupid/744306/75 "2016-01-28T14:00:34Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I very much appreciate this post. There’s an unfortunate tendency here to concede error either (a) never, or (b) pried from the cold dead hands of the poster. It is human although unfortunate for posters (and scientists, especially those who espouse pseudoscience) to have difficulty admitting error. Another unfortunate tendency posterwise is to keep making the same errors over and over again (like attributing beliefs to one’s opponents which they don’t hold) while expecting (and actually receiving) praise for acknowledging said errors. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2016, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-who-are-actually-stupid/744306/76 "2016-01-28T14:33:26Z")
> [@Doyle](#): > > Courtesy of Breitbart. The up-front Nonsense Warning Label is appreciated. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2016, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-who-are-actually-stupid/744306/77 "2016-01-28T14:35:22Z")
> [@Doyle](#): > > Is it possible that NdT is a bit overrated and that some of his success is due to him being black and a handsome man? Yes, just as it is possible that the 9/11 attacks were orchestrated by space aliens. We are looking for evidence, not abstract possibility. ---
**Author:** ![Lucas\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lucas_jackson/32/303_2.png) [@Lucas\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lucas_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2016, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-who-are-actually-stupid/744306/78 "2016-01-29T14:47:32Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > And I don’t know how smart Bill Nye is, and he’s certainly a very skilled entertainer, but I can’t say I think much of his ability as a science educator. He always seems to cut every lesson short and jump to the next one, just at the point right before the audience would learn anything. And yet you and almost everyone here knows of him. Regardless, if your statement were true it wouldn’t make him “stupid” as the thread title suggests. . ---
**Author:** ![Doyle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doyle/32/439_2.png) [@Doyle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doyle)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2016, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-who-are-actually-stupid/744306/79 "2016-01-29T15:12:33Z")
> [@Steve\_MB](#): > > Yes, just as it is possible that the 9/11 attacks were orchestrated by space aliens. We are looking for evidence, not abstract possibility. So, you’re saying it’s not even a remote possibility? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2016, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-who-are-actually-stupid/744306/80 "2016-01-29T15:15:25Z")
> [@Doyle](#): > > So, you’re saying it’s not even a remote possibility? Without good evidence, there’s no reason to consider such a claim. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-who-are-actually-stupid/744306.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-who-are-actually-stupid/744306.md?page=5)