# SciFi Channel **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 5, 2004, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scifi-channel/248800 "2004-06-05T13:51:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Wile\_E](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c37758/32.png) [@Wile\_E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wile_E)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2004, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scifi-channel/248800/61 "2004-06-08T14:59:57Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > That’s a controversial bit of fandom history . . . The term “sci-fi” was coined – back in the '60s, I think – by uberfanne Forrest J. Ackerman. Harlan Ellison declared war on the usage – he compared it to “the sound of crickets making love.” (I had a message-button made up special a few years back: “I [heart] copulating crickets!”) Some fans use the term “sci-fi” to refer only to what might be classed as “SF lite,” such as the _Logan’s Run_ movie. (Which at any rate was much better than _The Starlost_ – take that, Harlan!) But most of us regard it as a more-or-less acceptable synonym for SF. If the term annoys Harlan Ellison then that’s all the more reason to use it. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2004, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scifi-channel/248800/62 "2004-06-08T16:02:02Z")
BMalion writes: \> A newbie? For awhile I made a point to use it whenever I was at a L.A.S.F.S. \> meeting and I never saw anyone wince or shush me or correct me. Some \> random last names present were Pournelle, Niven, Freas, Foss… Nobody bothers to correct someone else’s use, but nobody who’s been in fandom for a long time uses it. Think of it being like young children learning correct English grammar as they grow up with native speakers. Nobody bothers to correct them, but eventually they learn correct grammar. (For those of you who don’t know much about child language learning, this is in fact what happens. Very little conscious correction goes on, and it has little effect anyway. Children learn grammar by imitation.) ---
**Author:** ![LeRoi\_Lezard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/53a042/32.png) [@LeRoi\_Lezard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LeRoi_Lezard)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2004, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scifi-channel/248800/63 "2004-06-08T16:25:33Z")
I too stopped watching when the Sci-Fi Channel killed _Farscape_ after a cliff-hanger and started making new episodes of crappy shows like _Stargate_, _Tremors_, and that reality show with Shannen Doherty :rolleyes: . Since I can’t stand watching movies that have been edited for content (if a character says “forget you!”, don’t we all know what they’re really saying?), or with 9 minutes of commercials added for every 11 minutes of movie, I’ll probably never watch the channel again. I do, however, TiVo _Tripping the Rift_ … ---
**Author:** ![BMalion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e274bd/32.png) [@BMalion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BMalion)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2004, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scifi-channel/248800/64 "2004-06-08T17:45:32Z")
> [@Wendell Wagner](#): > > BMalion writes: > > \> A newbie? For awhile I made a point to use it whenever I was at a L.A.S.F.S. > \> meeting and I never saw anyone wince or shush me or correct me. Some > \> random last names present were Pournelle, Niven, Freas, Foss… > > Nobody bothers to correct someone else’s use, but nobody who’s been in fandom for a long time uses it. Think of it being like young children learning correct English grammar as they grow up with native speakers. Nobody bothers to correct them, but eventually they learn correct grammar. (For those of you who don’t know much about child language learning, this is in fact what happens. Very little conscious correction goes on, and it has little effect anyway. Children learn grammar by imitation.) If you’ve ever been to gathering of Sci-Fi fans you’d hear little else _but_ correcting! 😉 We love to correct each other, just like on this board. I’m 43 years old. Hardly a “child who has yet to learn correct grammer”, I’ve been in fandom a long time now, and it’s not an issue, except for people who read about it being an issue back long ago, who _think_ it’s still an issue. Hell, sometimes I refer to it as “Science-Fantasy” “Sciencti-fiction” or even “Speculative-Fiction” or sometimes I just refer to it as a “Ripping Yarn”. Let’s just get back to why the Sci-Fi channel stinks. ---
**Author:** ![emarkp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3be4f8/32.png) [@emarkp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emarkp)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2004, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scifi-channel/248800/65 "2004-06-08T21:54:56Z")
> [@LeRoi Lezard](#): > > I too stopped watching when the Sci-Fi Channel killed _Farscape_ after a cliff-hanger and started making new episodes of crappy shows like _Stargate_ Here we part ways. I tried for a few episodes to get into Farscape, but never could manage it. Stargate remains IMO one of the best dramas on TV period. So I’ve been pretty pleased with Sci-Fi on that score. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2004, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scifi-channel/248800/66 "2004-06-08T23:03:34Z")
> [@Tiramisu](#): > > If the term annoys Harlan Ellison then that’s all the more reason to use it. It also annoys Mike Resnick, which is an _even better_ reason to use it. Personally, I use the two terms (sc-fi v. sf) interchangably. Because, y’know, that’s how synonyms work. “Real fans don’t say sci-fi” is the sort of bullshit that gives all of fandom a bad name. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Blue\_Sky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d26b3c/32.png) [@Mr.Blue\_Sky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Blue_Sky)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2004, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scifi-channel/248800/67 "2004-06-08T23:06:12Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Because, y’know, that’s how synonyms work. “Real fans don’t say sci-fi” is the sort of bullshit that gives all of fandom a bad name. Thank you! ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2004, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scifi-channel/248800/68 "2004-06-09T03:15:43Z")
BMalion writes: \> If you’ve ever been to gathering of Sci-Fi fans you’d hear little else but \> correcting! Not in my experience. Nobody makes a big deal about the term, but, as I said, in my experience, nobody but newbies in science fiction fandom use the term “sci fi”. \> Hardly a “child who has yet to learn correct grammer”, I’ve been in fandom \> a long time now, and it’s not an issue, except for people who read about it \> being an issue back long ago, who think it’s still an issue. First, I wasn’t calling you a child. I was making an analogy. In an analogy, you compare two things and show how they are similar _in one respect_. I was saying that people new to science fiction fandom learn the terminology of fandom in the same way as children learn a native language. New fans learn the terminology by listening to older fans speak and (unconsciously) imitating them, not by being corrected by older fans. And, once again, I’m not saying that it’s an issue. Nobody discusses whether to say “science fiction” or “sci fi”. It happens to be the case that nobody says “sci fi”, not because anyone makes an issue of it, but because newbies learn by imitation. ---
**Author:** ![BMalion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e274bd/32.png) [@BMalion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BMalion)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2004, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scifi-channel/248800/69 "2004-06-09T12:16:59Z")
**Wendell Wagner** , what have you got against quote boxes? 😛 anyway, I’m sure you meant well, but your post seems a bit condescending. I know you were not calling me a child, that’s why I put the phrase in quotation marks. > [@](#): > > New fans learn the terminology by listening to older fans Younger fans learning from older fans? Where the heck do you live? A Science-Fiction monastary? I buy my books from a bookstore and online, then I read them. If I talk to an older fan it’s not like he’s holding court and surrounded by the young ones who learn from the old master about being a “fan” in the proper way. “Oh no, Billy, we never say ‘Sci-Fi’, that way offends the elders of the tribe. Stick with the old ways so as not to bring down the wrath of the Har-Lan.” ---
**Author:** ![tanstaafl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ba8739/32.png) [@tanstaafl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tanstaafl)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2004, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scifi-channel/248800/70 "2004-06-09T14:38:53Z")
I used to have a button that said “Help stomp out fannish elitism - say Sci-Fi”. OTOH, I haven’t been to a con in over 10 years. ---
**Author:** ![BMalion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e274bd/32.png) [@BMalion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BMalion)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2004, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scifi-channel/248800/71 "2004-06-09T14:52:17Z")
> [@tanstaafl](#): > > I used to have a button that said “Help stomp out fannish elitism - say Sci-Fi”. > > OTOH, I haven’t been to a con in over 10 years. You know, there ain’t no such thing as a free… _tanj!._ ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2004, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scifi-channel/248800/72 "2004-06-09T15:32:01Z")
> [@BMalion](#): > > **Wendell Wagner** > > “Oh no, Billy, we never say ‘Sci-Fi’, that way offends the elders of the tribe. Stick with the old ways so as not to bring down the wrath of the Har-Lan.” Considering Ellison’s height, shouldn’t that be ‘So as not to call up the wrath of Har-Lan, He Who Dwells Beneath Shoal Durrs’? BTW- For a few months, I worked for George Scithers, a member of the Trap Door Spiders. I can’t remember him ever showing a preference for, or distaste of any of the various terms -SF, Sci Fi, Science Fiction, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2004, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scifi-channel/248800/73 "2004-06-10T02:25:53Z")
BMalion writes: \> “Oh no, Billy, we never say ‘Sci-Fi’, that way offends the elders of the tribe. \> Stick with the old ways so as not to bring down the wrath of the Har-Lan.” How many times do I have to say this? Nobody _ever_ lectures anyone else about what terms to use. All the terminology in fandom is learned by unconscious imitation. Have you ever taken any courses in anthropology, sociology, or linguistics? This is how most culture is transmitted, not by conscious teaching, but by unconscious imitation. And also writes: \> I buy my books from a bookstore and online, then I read them. If you never talk with other fans, then my generalization doesn’t apply to you. I was talking about people who spend at least a reasonable amount of time on a regular basis socializing with other fans. When I use the term “fan,” I mean someone who spends significant amounts of time with other fans. If you use it to mean just someone who reads a lot of science fiction, that’s fine, but then my generalization doesn’t apply to your definition of “fan.” Yes, I hate quote boxes. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2004, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scifi-channel/248800/74 "2004-06-10T03:00:29Z")
> [@Wendell Wagner](#): > > If you never talk with other fans, then my generalization doesn’t apply to you. I was talking about people who spend at least a reasonable amount of time on a regular basis socializing with other fans. When I use the term “fan,” I mean someone who spends significant amounts of time with other fans. If you use it to mean just someone who reads a lot of science fiction, that’s fine, but then my generalization doesn’t apply to your definition of “fan.” It might be helpful, in the future, to make it clear right up front that you’re defining a common word in a way almost no one else defines it. It could prevent a lot of confusion. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2004, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scifi-channel/248800/75 "2004-06-10T03:09:02Z")
That’s the way a lot of people I know use the term “fan.” ---
**Author:** ![Paranoid\_Randroid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/paranoid_randroid/32/18_2.png) [@Paranoid\_Randroid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paranoid_Randroid)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2004, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scifi-channel/248800/76 "2004-06-10T03:13:07Z")
[QUOTE=Wendell Wagner] BMalion writes: Nobody bothers to correct someone else’s use, but nobody who’s been in fandom for a long time uses it. [QUOTE] The term “sci-fi” is in constant, everyday use by the population at large. If its use isn’t corrected or even commented on by anybody, then no one who uses it will stop - unless they’re completely cut off from every part of human society but that of highly social SF fandom. ---
**Author:** ![Paranoid\_Randroid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/paranoid_randroid/32/18_2.png) [@Paranoid\_Randroid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paranoid_Randroid)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2004, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scifi-channel/248800/77 "2004-06-10T03:15:55Z")
I can see why WW dislikes quote boxes. He’s the one that said what I was quoting above, anyway, not **BMalion**. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2004, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scifi-channel/248800/78 "2004-06-10T03:38:30Z")
> [@Wendell Wagner](#): > > That’s the way a lot of people I know use the term “fan.” How do they define people who read a lot of science fiction, but _don’t_ hang out at science fiction conventions? ---
**Author:** ![BMalion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e274bd/32.png) [@BMalion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BMalion)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2004, 12:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scifi-channel/248800/79 "2004-06-10T12:23:28Z")
> [@Wendell Wagner](#): > > If you never talk with other fans, then my generalization doesn’t apply to you. I was talking about people who spend at least a reasonable amount of time on a regular basis socializing with other fans. Well, I’m on both sides of the street. There was a time when almost all my socializing was with science-fiction fans. I’ve been to Jerry Pournelle’s home, a Regency dance with Larry Niven, and I won’t even mention the Rick Foss Hot-Tub of Doom. Now I live in Ohio and haven’t been to a LosCon or a WorldCon in years. Funny how that works out. Where was I? Who cares. I don’t mean to be snarky. I apologize if I offended anyone. I was in a bad mood yesterday. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2004, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scifi-channel/248800/80 "2004-06-11T01:41:48Z")
> [@pepperlandgirl](#): > > I watch it now to get my afternoon X-Files fix, and god help me, I also watch The Incredible Hulk. > > Of course, now I’m pissed because they moved the X-Files from 4 to 5, which is opposite of Angel on TNT, thus destroying my 4-6 Bliss. If you’re a night person, the X-Files runs on TNT from midnight to 3 am. I suppose you could always tape it. I’m with **DocCathode** -what the hell happened to _Dark Shadows_? I want to hear more about the Collins family and their incestors. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scifi-channel/248800.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scifi-channel/248800.md?page=5)