# SCO v. IBM. Does the "v." stand for "versus"? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 16, 2005, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sco-v-ibm-does-the-v-stand-for-versus/299624 "2005-04-16T14:05:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 5\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Cunctator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/43a26b/32.png) [@Cunctator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cunctator)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2005, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sco-v-ibm-does-the-v-stand-for-versus/299624/21 "2005-04-17T22:22:31Z")
Another law student here. We’ve been specifically instructed that the correct usage is: In civil cases: Donoghue v Stevenson is to be pronounced Donoghue \*\*and \*\* Stevenson In criminal cases: R v Smith is to be pronounced the Queen (or crown) \*\*against \*\* Smith Whenever anyone uses **versus** , the response is “don’t say it that way. That’s the American usage”. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2005, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sco-v-ibm-does-the-v-stand-for-versus/299624/22 "2005-04-18T01:43:10Z")
Here in Canada, we normally pronounce it “versus.” Pronouncing it as “vee” sounds goofy to me (just my opinion). I don’t think I remember anyone saying “and”. When I’m arguing a case in court, if it’s a criminal case, like “R. v. Brown”, I normally just say “Brown”. When it’s a civil case, the first time I refer to the case I usually say it in full, but after that I often just use the name of the lead plaintiff, rather than pronounciing it in full. ---
**Author:** ![Cliffy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/59ef9b/32.png) [@Cliffy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cliffy)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2005, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sco-v-ibm-does-the-v-stand-for-versus/299624/23 "2005-04-18T12:48:29Z")
That’s typical in the States as well, **Northern** – no one uses entire case names except on first reference. In my experience, the first party name is the one used most often when referring to a civil case, although if the defendant’s name is more interesting or seems like it might be more easily identifiable, people will use that as well. –Cliffy ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2005, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sco-v-ibm-does-the-v-stand-for-versus/299624/24 "2005-04-18T13:52:02Z")
Another American lawyer here – In my experience, the most common way to say “v.” is as “versus”; next most common is “vee”; third is “against.” I prefer the last myself. “And” seems entirely illogical to me. And I don’t see why whether it’s a criminal or civil case should make any difference. > [@Exapno Mapcase](#): > > The vee standing for v. which is _the way court decisions are rendered_. Just a nitpick here: I think you mean “the way court cases are captioned (or named).” ---
**Author:** ![OxyMoron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/e9a140/32.png) [@OxyMoron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OxyMoron)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2005, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sco-v-ibm-does-the-v-stand-for-versus/299624/25 "2005-04-18T15:40:04Z")
The idea of rendering (in the editorial sense, **ascenray** , not the legal sense) “v” as “and” strikes this editor/attorney as unacceptably, irremediably vague. Is this the traditional practice, or is it a more recent innovation? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sco-v-ibm-does-the-v-stand-for-versus/299624.md?page=1)