# Scooter Libby skates free **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 3, 2007, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scooter-libby-skates-free/410296 "2007-07-03T00:18:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2007, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scooter-libby-skates-free/410296/41 "2007-07-03T04:34:16Z")
[QUOTE=tomndebb] Torches and burning things are better handled in the **BBQ Pit**. I see no debate, much less a great one. [/Moderating] [/QUOTE] Cool. Now I can say what I really think. šŸ™‚ ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2007, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scooter-libby-skates-free/410296/42 "2007-07-03T04:40:07Z")
[QUOTE=tomndebb] Torches and burning things are better handled in the **BBQ Pit**. [/QUOTE] ā€¦ Where I can ask the mods to shut this thread down because of duplicate thread. Not exactly the result you wanted, I wager. šŸ˜ƒ ---
**Author:** ![appleciders](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85f322/32.png) [@appleciders](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/appleciders)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2007, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scooter-libby-skates-free/410296/43 "2007-07-03T06:04:35Z")
Yep. Thereā€™s already a Libby thread here. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2007, 11:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scooter-libby-skates-free/410296/44 "2007-07-03T11:12:08Z")
[QUOTE=appleciders] Yep. Thereā€™s already a Libby thread here. [/QUOTE] Let the free market decide! Competition is good! ---
**Author:** ![Baldwin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baldwin/32/7264_2.png) [@Baldwin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baldwin)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2007, 11:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scooter-libby-skates-free/410296/45 "2007-07-03T11:30:26Z")
Giuliani came out in favor of the commutation. I thought that guy was tough on crime. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Arky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/87869e/32.png) [@An\_Arky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Arky)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2007, 11:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scooter-libby-skates-free/410296/46 "2007-07-03T11:51:55Z")
I canā€™t really work up much outrage about this. Libby, although high-ranking, was merely a foot soldier being a stand up fall guy. I think that Bush communting his sentence does more to cement the notion in voterā€™s minds that this administration is shamefully corrupt than to have Libby going to some country club prison for a few months. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2007, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scooter-libby-skates-free/410296/47 "2007-07-03T12:26:03Z")
Scooter Libby would have essentially been a political prisoner if Bush had not commuted the sentence. The sentence did not fit the crime and it was a miscarriage of justice. If perjury in and of itself is the key problem then it shouldnā€™t matter what was lied about, but Liberals seem to excuse perjury as long as the person committing the act is a Democrat President who is perjuring himself so that it helps his defense in a sexual harassment suit. Libby was more or less being crucified for something heā€™d never done, just because there was a desire to punish _someone_. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2007, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scooter-libby-skates-free/410296/48 "2007-07-03T12:34:14Z")
[QUOTE=Muffin] Where do you think banned posters are disappeared to? [/QUOTE] I was going to mention another, er, forum, but upon reflection that probably _would_ put me in Guantanamo. šŸ™‚ ---
**Author:** ![alreadymichigan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecd19e/32.png) [@alreadymichigan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alreadymichigan)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2007, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scooter-libby-skates-free/410296/49 "2007-07-03T12:39:00Z")
[QUOTE=Martin Hyde] Scooter Libby would have essentially been a political prisoner if Bush had not commuted the sentence. The sentence did not fit the crime and it was a miscarriage of justice. If perjury in and of itself is the key problem then it shouldnā€™t matter what was lied about, but Liberals seem to excuse perjury as long as the person committing the act is a Democrat President who is perjuring himself so that it helps his defense in a sexual harassment suit. Libby was more or less being crucified for something heā€™d never done, just because there was a desire to punish _someone_. [/QUOTE] Wait, which jury convicted Clinton? Is that the jury in your head with the very unique quality of non-existence? How awful of those liberals to not respect the decisions of non-existent juries. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2007, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scooter-libby-skates-free/410296/50 "2007-07-03T12:40:00Z")
[QUOTE=alreadymichigan] Wait, which jury convicted Clinton? Is that the jury in your head with the very unique quality of non-existence? How awful of those liberals to not respect the decisions of non-existent juries. [/QUOTE] Yes, fortunately for Clinton he never had to appear before a jury, special treatment for special people and all. If Libby was tried in front of the Senate do you really think he would have been convicted? ---
**Author:** ![alreadymichigan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecd19e/32.png) [@alreadymichigan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alreadymichigan)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2007, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scooter-libby-skates-free/410296/51 "2007-07-03T12:49:35Z")
[QUOTE=Martin Hyde] If Libby was tried in front of the Senate do you really think he would have been convicted? [/QUOTE] Is this more wisdom from your beloved non-existent legal system? Under the real legal system, the one that exists outside your little mental fantasy land, why on earth would Libby be impeached? What the fuck does the Senate have to do with anything? ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2007, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scooter-libby-skates-free/410296/52 "2007-07-03T12:50:46Z")
Humā€¦shouldnā€™t Scooter have to go hunting with Cheney? ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2007, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scooter-libby-skates-free/410296/53 "2007-07-03T12:59:12Z")
[QUOTE=Martin Hyde] Scooter Libby would have essentially been a political prisoner if Bush had not commuted the sentence. The sentence did not fit the crime and it was a miscarriage of justice. [/quote] Youā€™ll have to explain, then, why the Bush-appointee judge felt it complied with the Federal sentencing guidelines, which according to the current Supreme Court, now have the presumption of reasonableness, and why your opinion on the matter is superior to his. > [@](#): > > Libby was more or less being crucified for something heā€™d never done, just because there was a desire to punish _someone_. Youā€™ll have to explain how Libby had ā€œnever doneā€ what he did, which was to repeatedly seek, obtain, and disseminate information about Plameā€™s covert status, according to _nine different witnesses_, before the conversation occurred where he testified heā€™d initially learned about Plameā€™s covert status. > [@](#): > > If perjury in and of itself is the key problem then it shouldnā€™t matter what was lied about, but Liberals seem to excuse perjury as long as the person committing the act is a Democrat President who is perjuring himself so that it helps his defense in a sexual harassment suit. No, we actually have this weird notion that _what youā€™re lying about_ matters, too. But hereā€™s the deal: if **your** standard is ā€œperjury is perjury, regardless of the offense, and is always a serious crime deserving of real punishment,ā€ then by your standard Libby should be in the slammer. And by the leftā€™s standard, which takes into account the question of whatā€™s being lied about, he _also_ deserves to be in the slammer. So it doesnā€™t really matter, does it? ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2007, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scooter-libby-skates-free/410296/54 "2007-07-03T13:04:55Z")
[QUOTE=Mr. Excellent] And yes, itā€™s important that Libby be punished - but he really is paying a substantial fine, and his legal career will never, ever come back. That might not sound like much - but Iā€™ve only been a law student a year, and the thought of never being able to practice law is already enough to make me want to bawl like an infant. Does it really make sense for the state to assume the massive cost of imprisoning a criminal who poses no threat to the safety of people or property? [/QUOTE] Scooter Libby is a lawyer the way John Gotti is/was a resteraunteur. I mean, thereā€™s business, and then thereā€™s _bidness!_ Anyway, you may see lying to cover up treason as an OK thing, I donā€™t. The bastard belongs in a jail cell ā€“ for years. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2007, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scooter-libby-skates-free/410296/55 "2007-07-03T13:06:46Z")
[QUOTE=Mr. Moto] I wasnā€™t demanding a full pardon. This sits pretty well with me. It seems perfectly in line with how similar matters have been handled in the past. [/QUOTE] Yeah, treasonā€™s OK. Itā€™s practically a good thing, if youā€™re a Republican! ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2007, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scooter-libby-skates-free/410296/56 "2007-07-03T13:11:29Z")
[QUOTE=RTFirefly] Youā€™ll have to explain, then, why the Bush-appointee judge felt it complied with the Federal sentencing guidelines, which according to the current Supreme Court, now have the presumption of reasonableness, and why your opinion on the matter is superior to his. [/quote] The judge was wrong, the support I have that my judgment is superior to his is his judgment was essentially reversed. > [@](#): > > Youā€™ll have to explain how Libby had ā€œnever doneā€ what he did, which was to repeatedly seek, obtain, and disseminate information about Plameā€™s covert status, according to _nine different witnesses_, before the conversation occurred where he testified heā€™d initially learned about Plameā€™s covert status. He was never convicted of any of those things, or for any crime under the IIPA. > [@](#): > > No, we actually have this weird notion that _what youā€™re lying about_ matters, too. Thatā€™s not an element of the crime of perjury, period. I can understand why you might _want_ it to be, but it isnā€™t. > [@](#): > > But hereā€™s the deal: if **your** standard is ā€œperjury is perjury, regardless of the offense, and is always a serious crime deserving of real punishment,ā€ then by your standard Libby should be in the slammer. And by the leftā€™s standard, which takes into account the question of whatā€™s being lied about, he _also_ deserves to be in the slammer. Where did I say that real punishment is only equated to prison time? $250,000 fines are serious, as is probation. Where did I say that perjury is a serious crime at all? I didnā€™t. I think itā€™s important that it is a crime, but I donā€™t think it should be punished as a serious felony. It should be like a misdemeanor meaning under 12 months in prison and/or a fine. People shouldnā€™t go to prison for _years_ because they lied. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2007, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scooter-libby-skates-free/410296/57 "2007-07-03T13:13:32Z")
[QUOTE=Martin Hyde] Where did I say that real punishment is only equated to prison time? $250,000 fines are serious, as is probation. Where did I say that perjury is a serious crime at all? I didnā€™t. I think itā€™s important that it is a crime, but I donā€™t think it should be punished as a serious felony. It should be like a misdemeanor meaning under 12 months in prison and/or a fine. People shouldnā€™t go to prison for _years_ because they lied. [/QUOTE] Because treason is GOOD for America! ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2007, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scooter-libby-skates-free/410296/58 "2007-07-03T13:15:00Z")
[QUOTE=Evil Captor] Yeah, treasonā€™s OK. Itā€™s practically a good thing, if youā€™re a Republican! [/QUOTE] You need to brush up on Civics 101. No matter how you cut it, perjury isnā€™t treason. Neither is revealing the identity of a covert operative, either (which is irrelevant since no one was convicted of that.) ---
**Author:** ![storyteller0910](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecae2f/32.png) [@storyteller0910](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/storyteller0910)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2007, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scooter-libby-skates-free/410296/59 "2007-07-03T13:15:14Z")
[QUOTE=Martin Hyde] The judge was wrong, the support I have that my judgment is superior to his is his judgment was essentially reversed. [/QUOTE] Wow. Soā€¦ youā€™re basically insane, then? Fair enough. Erā€¦ good luck with that. ---
**Author:** ![plnnr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@plnnr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/plnnr)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2007, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scooter-libby-skates-free/410296/60 "2007-07-03T13:23:03Z")
[QUOTE=Evil Captor] Scooter Libby is a lawyer the way John Gotti is/was a resteraunteur. I mean, thereā€™s business, and then thereā€™s _bidness!_ Anyway, you may see lying to cover up treason as an OK thing, I donā€™t. The bastard belongs in a jail cell ā€“ for years. [/QUOTE] This was the point that galled me. Those who have supported the commutation of the sentence are pointing out that heā€™ll have his law license revoked and have to pay a $250,000 fine. I donā€™t know Scooter Libby personally, but Iā€™d wager a good chunk of change that it has been a pretty good while since he practiced law or was even contemplating going back to the practice of law after his government service. You dontā€™ need to be a lawyer to be a lobbiest or a Esteemed Fellow of Statesmanship and Government at the nearest conservative think-tank. As to the $250,000 fine - I suspect the check to cover that has already been cut and is being hand delivered to the court clerkā€™s office. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scooter-libby-skates-free/410296.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scooter-libby-skates-free/410296.md?page=4)