# Scooter Libby skates free **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 3, 2007, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scooter-libby-skates-free/410296 "2007-07-03T00:18:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2007, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scooter-libby-skates-free/410296/141 "2007-07-04T17:13:06Z")
[QUOTE=Baldwin] If by “support” you mean “commit crimes without regard to the good of the country you’re supposed to be serving”, then yes. Despicable. [/QUOTE] Well, good to know that you think that every subordinate should excercise their own will in terms of presidential and vice-presidential decisions. I am sure the government will function quite well that way. I can’t wait for the Democratic candidate to get elected so I can listen to some right winger spouting almost verbatim what you’re saying. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2007, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scooter-libby-skates-free/410296/142 "2007-07-04T17:32:21Z")
From your lips to the Ears… ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2007, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scooter-libby-skates-free/410296/143 "2007-07-04T17:33:32Z")
[QUOTE=E-Sabbath] I’m surprised, Bricker. The ability of the President to do this is unquestionable. He has the right to commute any sentence. It’s clear and legal for him to do so. [/QUOTE] I think it’s just a matter of differentiating between what can legally be done and what should be done. Would you be surprised if Bush commuted the sentence a mass murderer who had political connections and \*\*Bricker \*\*said he was appalled at that? I don’t think I’ve ever seen \*\*Bricker \*\*condone perjury under any circumstances. I’m pretty much in the same camp on this. What Bush did is perfectly within his rights as president, but I still don’t think he was right in doing it. I don’t know that I’d say I was appalled, but perhaps that just because I find this pretty far down on the list of things Bush has done that I disagree with. I’m appalled at Bush’s decision to lead us into war in Iraq. I’m appalled at Bush’s claim that he can detain US citizens without charging them with anything for as long as he wants. The Libby issue is smaller potatoes, IMHO. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2007, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scooter-libby-skates-free/410296/144 "2007-07-04T17:39:46Z")
Plame has a civil suit going against the Libster. A pardon includes an admission of guilt , this does not. We must remember the second charge was obstruction of justice. This is blocking the investigation from going where it was headed, to Rove and Cheney and perhaps to the Shrub himself. How can any one dismiss this as a small crime. ? ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2007, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scooter-libby-skates-free/410296/145 "2007-07-04T17:59:34Z")
I’m trying to find the article in question, but one of the points of the Libby commutation is that people in federal court are, apparently, now thinking of using ‘Well, my client didn’t do anything worse than Libby’, as a valid tactic for defense. And yes, John, I would be a bit surprised. Bricker has, as far as I can tell, consistently taken the position that if it is legal, or even technically legal, for the President to do it, then it must be allowable. Regard, for example, the recent discussion on Habeas Corpus, where Bricker appeared to be arguing in favor of Gonzales’ position, which, while possibly technically legal, I maintain was a huge violation of the spirit of western jurisprudence. Ah, here we go. > **[Libby's commutation is at odds with Bush's sentencing policy.](https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2007/07/libby-s-commutation-is-at-odds-with-bush-s-sentencing-policy.html)** > > What's stunning about President Bush's commutation of Scooter Libby's sentence, if you're a criminal defense lawyer, isn't that it was politically... [http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/04/washington/04commute.html?adxnnl=1&ref=todayspaper&adxnnlx=1183572092-MCb9bVg89yzdGNq8M8t5cw](http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/04/washington/04commute.html?adxnnl=1&ref=todayspaper&adxnnlx=1183572092-MCb9bVg89yzdGNq8M8t5cw) ---
**Author:** ![An\_Arky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/87869e/32.png) [@An\_Arky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Arky)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2007, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scooter-libby-skates-free/410296/146 "2007-07-04T18:05:32Z")
OJ was _acquitted_, and he still got popped for wrongful death in the civil suit, so I don’t know if the disposition of this criminal case will have any bearing on the civil suit. I don’t think anyone’s saying obstruction of justice is small potatoes, just that in light of some of the more serious goings on in this administration, Libby’s was, and anyway, this is only the beginning…you have to start somewhere. This will lead to other things; it takes time and quite a bit of untangling, though. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2007, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scooter-libby-skates-free/410296/147 "2007-07-04T18:22:48Z")
[QUOTE=E-Sabbath] And yes, John, I would be a bit surprised. Bricker has, as far as I can tell, consistently taken the position that if it is legal, or even technically legal, for the President to do it, then it must be allowable. [/quote] Allowable and “appallable” are not opposites, though. The invasion of Iraq was done with the approval of Congress, and so it was perfectly allowable. I’m still appalled that we actually did it, though. > [@](#): > > Regard, for example, the recent discussion on Habeas Corpus, where Bricker appeared to be arguing in favor of Gonzales’ position, which, while possibly technically legal, I maintain was a huge violation of the spirit of western jurisprudence. I’m not sure which debate you’re talking about, but if it was the one about AG’s remarks to Congress about the constitution, that was a discussion about what AG meant, not about what was correct or allowable. But I’ll let \*\*Bricker \*\*speak to that. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2007, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scooter-libby-skates-free/410296/148 "2007-07-04T18:26:46Z")
FWIW, the House Judiciary Committee will [have a hearing on the Libby commutation next Wednesday.](http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=NzE1NDRjMDhjN2Q4MjYwZWVkOWI0NTY2NzEzZDIyYmQ=) ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2007, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scooter-libby-skates-free/410296/149 "2007-07-04T19:03:45Z")
[QUOTE=E-Sabbath] And yes, John, I would be a bit surprised. Bricker has, as far as I can tell, consistently taken the position that if it is legal, or even technically legal, for the President to do it, then it must be allowable. [/quote] And I agree. It IS allowable. How could it not be? > [@](#): > > Regard, for example, the recent discussion on Habeas Corpus, where Bricker appeared to be arguing in favor of Gonzales’ position, which, while possibly technically legal, I maintain was a huge violation of the spirit of western jurisprudence. I was clarifying what Gonzales was talking about - rebutting the apparent claim that Gonzales didn’t know what the Constitution said. I showed that Gonzales was discussing a specific court case, where the basis of the case was a statutory rule that permitted habeas corpus, NOT a constitutional rule. I took some time from that main discussion to debunk the silly idea that if habeas corpus didn’t exist at all, it would undermine confidence in post-trial confinements, by pointing out that trial and post trial have their own procedures that cover the same ground that habeas does. John Mace had no trouble figuring that out. ---
**Author:** ![vibrotronica](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/a9a28c/32.png) [@vibrotronica](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vibrotronica)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2007, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scooter-libby-skates-free/410296/150 "2007-07-04T19:48:12Z")
[QUOTE=Bricker] By the way: in case anyone is wondering, I find this decison appalling. Lying under oath - perjury - is a serious crime. It makes the administration of justice impossible, and when engaged upon by a government official it should be punished harshly. Libby was fairly convicted and his sentence was within the sentencing guidelines for the offense. He should serve his time. [/QUOTE] Quite right, Bricker! And here’s what’s even more disgusting: Libby got out of jail by blackmailing the President and Vice President. He knows where the bodies are buried. He knows that he could have gotten out of doing any time by rolling over on his boss, but he didn’t do it. “If I don’t roll over on you, you keep me from doing time.” That’s exactly what happened here, and everybody fucking knows it. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2007, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scooter-libby-skates-free/410296/151 "2007-07-04T20:59:27Z")
I doubt it, quite frankly, I doubt Scooter has anything but testimony to offer, which is now the testimony of a convicted perjurer. What “hard evidence” could he possibly offer that would frighten? And his loyalty is bolstered by the sheer certainty that he need not wait for his reward in Heaven, there are any number of patriotic, civic-minded groups who would be willing to pay hard coin for his wisdom and experience. The American Instute for the Extermination of the Baby Harp Seal, for instance, or the Foundation for Ruthless Entrepreneurship. A mink lined sinecure awaits for he who Keeps The Faith. On Bush’s part, it is loyalty of a kind, the loyalty of one to the manor born has for a faithful family retainer who has outlived his usefullness, and is permitted to live out his remaining days in idleness. So long as he doesn’t take too long about it and becomes tiresome… ---
**Author:** ![bob\_co](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b3f665/32.png) [@bob\_co](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bob_co)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2007, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scooter-libby-skates-free/410296/152 "2007-07-07T01:53:04Z")
There was no “outing” to be had. Plame’s occupation was not a secret. It wasn’t a crime to get frisky in the oval office. From the looks of the discussions here, it does appear to be a very effective polital tactic to do whatever you can to get as many political enemies under oath and try to catch them in a lie. This costs us all a fortune in resources. I’m suprised that the kind of people who are on this board are manipulated by this type of media campaign without realizing it. ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2007, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scooter-libby-skates-free/410296/153 "2007-07-07T02:02:20Z")
[QUOTE=bob\_co] There was no “outing” to be had. Plame’s occupation was not a secret. [/QUOTE] [Plame was ‘covert’ agent at time of name leak](http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18924679/) ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2007, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scooter-libby-skates-free/410296/154 "2007-07-07T04:16:48Z")
[QUOTE=bob\_co] I’m suprised that the kind of people who are on this board are manipulated by this type of media campaign without realizing it. [/QUOTE] What we’re not manipulated by is bullshit propaganda by administration taintsuckers like yourself. Take a walk, freeper. ---
**Author:** ![bob\_co](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b3f665/32.png) [@bob\_co](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bob_co)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2007, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scooter-libby-skates-free/410296/155 "2007-07-07T04:32:04Z")
I’m simply suggesting that this political process has nothing to do with right and wrong and has everything to do with affecting people in the way that it has. I’m not picking this case in particular. The political process has gone into overdrive for the sake of the political process and not serving the people as it was intended here in the US. ---
**Author:** ![bob\_co](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b3f665/32.png) [@bob\_co](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bob_co)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2007, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scooter-libby-skates-free/410296/156 "2007-07-07T04:48:45Z")
What Joe Wilson did was wrong, and for political interests in retaliation and what the “Bush Adminstration” did was wrong and in retaliation. At the same time this is all going on, there were strong divides being generated with frothing mouths that are sure that this stands as an isolated incident of agreggious behaviour. My official political view is that of smaller government, and that is in no way in tune with this administration. But take this with a grain of salt; All of this crazy hatred of Bush will be shed in the next election becuase that is the way it is planned to be. It won’t be Bush in the election, so go ahead and blame all of this on him directly and seethe as you were told to. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2007, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scooter-libby-skates-free/410296/157 "2007-07-07T04:50:04Z")
[QUOTE=bob\_co] There was no “outing” to be had. Plame’s occupation was not a secret. It wasn’t a crime to get frisky in the oval office. From the looks of the discussions here, it does appear to be a very effective polital tactic to do whatever you can to get as many political enemies under oath and try to catch them in a lie. This costs us all a fortune in resources. I’m suprised that the kind of people who are on this board are manipulated by this type of media campaign without realizing it. [/QUOTE] This argument is stupid. She had a fake company set up for a fake job. Now once she was outed ,do you think the secret service in other countries were unable to figure out that everybody working for that front was a spy.? Do you not think they could figure out who was a spy. ?How many were outed and in trouble. ? What happened to everybody that met her since her career started. ? It was a terrible thing to out her and of course they got away with it. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2007, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scooter-libby-skates-free/410296/158 "2007-07-07T04:59:52Z")
[QUOTE=bob\_co] I’m simply suggesting that this political process has nothing to do with right and wrong and has everything to do with affecting people in the way that it has. [/quote] Cake, eating it too… > [@](#): > > I’m not picking this case in particular. Yeah, that would be dumb. 🙂 > [@](#): > > The political process has gone into overdrive for the sake of the political process Yogi Berra, is that you? > [@](#): > > and not serving the people as it was intended here in the US. Why is that even when you claim that I have the feeling that you are ignoring that the Justice department was so politicized that even the actions of Fitzgerald are put into doubt? (The conclusion now to me here is that Fitz let many go off the hook because of political pressure) The mainstream media was caught in bed with the administration on the way to support the war; forget liberal media, if we had a responsible media it would all sound like Olbermann, and talk of impeachment would be more in the open. As it is, there are many people manipulated by the mainstream media into minimizing what has happened here. ---
**Author:** ![bob\_co](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b3f665/32.png) [@bob\_co](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bob_co)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2007, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scooter-libby-skates-free/410296/159 "2007-07-07T05:01:49Z")
If the argument is stupid then Plame’s case will have meritt. I stand by my original argument and add the suggestion that her case will simply fade away. ---
**Author:** ![bob\_co](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b3f665/32.png) [@bob\_co](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bob_co)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2007, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scooter-libby-skates-free/410296/160 "2007-07-07T05:08:14Z")
The mainstream **political vote pandering** was caught in bed with the administration on the way to support the war; forget liberal media. As I remember it **OUR** representation voted for it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scooter-libby-skates-free/410296.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scooter-libby-skates-free/410296.md?page=9)