# Scores killed in explosions and shootout in Paris. Hostages being held **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 13, 2015, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scores-killed-in-explosions-and-shootout-in-paris-hostages-being-held/737499 "2015-11-13T21:55:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![Captain\_0bvious](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9dc877/32.png) [@Captain\_0bvious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_0bvious)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2015, 8:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scores-killed-in-explosions-and-shootout-in-paris-hostages-being-held/737499/201 "2015-11-14T08:45:44Z")
> [@JustinC](#): > > François Hollande was at the Stade de France with the bombs going off just outside, he’s thinking of self preservation, not politics. So, his bigotry and racist Trump-esque decisions finally showed to everyone his true colors. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2015, 8:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scores-killed-in-explosions-and-shootout-in-paris-hostages-being-held/737499/202 "2015-11-14T08:46:24Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > If they never make it into the country it doesn’t matter how mad we make them. Plus, if we assume that a certain percentage are extremists, we are knowingly importing a non-trivial number of terrorists. Is the government’s first priority to protect Americans or isn’t it? Well, no. It’s not. It never has been. That’s 9/11 reactionary bullshit. It’s compromising our values based on fear. I can’t believe you are saying something like this. One reason I like you is that, unlike some other conservatives of this board, you’d never advocated for bigotry. Why are you doing so now? The U.S. does not get to make laws that treat people differently because of their religion. We are a country where you can’t racially profile. Why would you think we could religiously profile? Protecting America is the job of the military and the police (including the FBI and CIA). The job of the government as a whole is outlined in the U.S. Constitution, and it says nothing about protecting us. The first priority of the government is to do what we have told it to do through our constitution. The government does not get to violate the values expressly given in the Bill of Rights to “protect” us. You want to keep out terrorists? You, get this, _screen for terrorists_. Not discriminate against all of a group due the actions of a small number. That is bigotry. And, yes, the same thing goes for not taking Syrian refugees based on where they are from. We have to take in refugees consistent to our other policies of taking in refugees. We accept them until we can’t. I can’t believe that you are suggesting something so abhorrent. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_0bvious](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9dc877/32.png) [@Captain\_0bvious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_0bvious)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2015, 8:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scores-killed-in-explosions-and-shootout-in-paris-hostages-being-held/737499/203 "2015-11-14T08:50:27Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > One reason I like you is that, unlike some other conservatives of this board, you’d never advocated for bigotry. Why are you doing so now? The U.S. does not get to make laws that treat people differently because of their religion. We are a country where you can’t racially profile. Why would you think we could religiously profile? Excellent post. Running a calculated risk of a terrorist attack is preferable to being accused of racism or bigotry. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2015, 8:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scores-killed-in-explosions-and-shootout-in-paris-hostages-being-held/737499/204 "2015-11-14T08:53:30Z")
If you’re going to propose such policies, just be honest about it and go whole hog. “We’re going to search and detain everyone who flies in America who has a Middle Eastern sounding name.” “We’re going to pull over anyone with brown skin.” “We’re going to put surveillance on every mosque in the country.” “As far as we’re concerned, the risk of people coming in from country X is too great. It’s safer to consider them all terrorists unless they can prove otherwise.” Just admit you want to be racist in the name of national security, and I’d have a smidgen more respect for your position. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_0bvious](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9dc877/32.png) [@Captain\_0bvious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_0bvious)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2015, 8:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scores-killed-in-explosions-and-shootout-in-paris-hostages-being-held/737499/205 "2015-11-14T08:53:38Z")
Islamophobia has no place in Western society. If the Nazis were still around, but only some of them were gassing Jews, would anyone even consider Naziphobia to be legit?! ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2015, 8:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scores-killed-in-explosions-and-shootout-in-paris-hostages-being-held/737499/206 "2015-11-14T08:55:18Z")
nm ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_0bvious](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9dc877/32.png) [@Captain\_0bvious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_0bvious)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2015, 8:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scores-killed-in-explosions-and-shootout-in-paris-hostages-being-held/737499/207 "2015-11-14T08:59:40Z")
Can anyone put a rough estimate on when France will reopen its borders? ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2015, 9:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scores-killed-in-explosions-and-shootout-in-paris-hostages-being-held/737499/208 "2015-11-14T09:08:13Z")
> [@Captain\_0bvious](#): > > Islam is a religion of peace. Didn’t **tomndebb** recently explain what this term really means by the people who use it? ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_0bvious](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9dc877/32.png) [@Captain\_0bvious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_0bvious)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2015, 9:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scores-killed-in-explosions-and-shootout-in-paris-hostages-being-held/737499/209 "2015-11-14T09:17:27Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > Didn’t **tomndebb** recently explain what this term really means by the people who use it? I don’t know, but it’s a valid point. Terms need to be very precisely defined, and I see the word “terrorism” being thrown around a lot here concerning these events in Paris. But is this really an appropriate term to use? During last January’s Charlie Hebdo incident in Paris, it was quite refreshing to see Christian Amanpour of CNN using a more precise term: [And this, on this day, these activists found their target.](http://www.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1501/07/nday.06.html) Seeing words “Muslim” and “terrorist” being used in the same sentence is what particularly concerns me. If absolutely necessary, wouldn’t it be better and less racist and bigoted to use word “activist” in this context? ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2015, 9:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scores-killed-in-explosions-and-shootout-in-paris-hostages-being-held/737499/210 "2015-11-14T09:23:06Z")
Muslims arent a race The Paris killings were meant to cause terror, the killers are terrorists Apologists for terrorists occupy the same level of hell as holocaust deniers ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_0bvious](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9dc877/32.png) [@Captain\_0bvious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_0bvious)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2015, 9:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scores-killed-in-explosions-and-shootout-in-paris-hostages-being-held/737499/211 "2015-11-14T09:24:39Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > You want to keep out terrorists? You, get this, _screen for terrorists_. That’s a sound and simple idea, backed by FBI director James Comey [answering the question on FBI’s ability to screen for terrorists](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5HZ4A7YGKl4) ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_0bvious](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9dc877/32.png) [@Captain\_0bvious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_0bvious)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2015, 9:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scores-killed-in-explosions-and-shootout-in-paris-hostages-being-held/737499/212 "2015-11-14T09:25:39Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > Muslims arent a race > > The Paris killings were meant to cause terror, the killers are terrorists > > Apologists for terrorists occupy the same level of hell as holocaust deniers “Activists”, please… ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2015, 9:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scores-killed-in-explosions-and-shootout-in-paris-hostages-being-held/737499/213 "2015-11-14T09:29:52Z")
Amanpour didnt say what you think. She was quoting someone else. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2015, 9:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scores-killed-in-explosions-and-shootout-in-paris-hostages-being-held/737499/214 "2015-11-14T09:30:56Z")
> [@Captain\_0bvious](#): > > “Activists”, please… Terrorists instead ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2015, 9:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scores-killed-in-explosions-and-shootout-in-paris-hostages-being-held/737499/215 "2015-11-14T09:30:58Z")
BigT, what happened in Paris is abhorrent. And 9/11, and the London subway attacks, and the Spanish train attacks, and the attack in Lebanon. Discrimination is a far lesser crime. The government knowingly importing terrorists is a serious problem, and I think the public has the right to weigh in on that. There is no constitutional right to enter our country. In the absence of a constitutional right, policy must serve the public interest and the public will. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2015, 9:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scores-killed-in-explosions-and-shootout-in-paris-hostages-being-held/737499/216 "2015-11-14T09:32:29Z")
> [@Captain\_0bvious](#): > > That’s a sound and simple idea, backed by FBI director James Comey [answering the question on FBI’s ability to screen for terrorists](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5HZ4A7YGKl4) We’re not even supposed to do that. We don’t screen Haitian refugees for terrorist activity. Don’t you know that we’re supposed to suspect Haitians just as much as Sunni Muslims? ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_0bvious](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9dc877/32.png) [@Captain\_0bvious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_0bvious)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2015, 9:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scores-killed-in-explosions-and-shootout-in-paris-hostages-being-held/737499/217 "2015-11-14T09:36:12Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > We’re not even supposed to do that. We don’t screen Haitian refugees for terrorist activity. Don’t you know that we’re supposed to suspect Haitians just as much as Sunni Muslims? Everyone should be suspected equally. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2015, 9:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scores-killed-in-explosions-and-shootout-in-paris-hostages-being-held/737499/218 "2015-11-14T09:39:29Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > If you’re going to propose such policies, just be honest about it and go whole hog. > > “We’re going to search and detain everyone who flies in America who has a Middle Eastern sounding name.” > > “We’re going to pull over anyone with brown skin.” > > “We’re going to put surveillance on every mosque in the country.” > > “As far as we’re concerned, the risk of people coming in from country X is too great. It’s safer to consider them all terrorists unless they can prove otherwise.” > > Just admit you want to be racist in the name of national security, and I’d have a smidgen more respect for your position. Islam is not a race. It’s an ideology. A collection of beliefs. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2015, 9:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scores-killed-in-explosions-and-shootout-in-paris-hostages-being-held/737499/219 "2015-11-14T09:39:45Z")
> [@Captain\_0bvious](#): > > Everyone should be suspected equally. Limited resources mean that educated guesses must be made. Haitians wont bomb us. Japanese wont shoot us. Obviously 99% of Muslims wont either, but its the other 1% we need to carefully weed out. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2015, 9:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scores-killed-in-explosions-and-shootout-in-paris-hostages-being-held/737499/220 "2015-11-14T09:40:35Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > The government knowingly importing terrorists is a serious problem, … The government knowingly imports terrorists. Right. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scores-killed-in-explosions-and-shootout-in-paris-hostages-being-held/737499.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scores-killed-in-explosions-and-shootout-in-paris-hostages-being-held/737499.md?page=12)