# Scores killed in explosions and shootout in Paris. Hostages being held **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 13, 2015, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scores-killed-in-explosions-and-shootout-in-paris-hostages-being-held/737499 "2015-11-13T21:55:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![Idle\_Thoughts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/838e76/32.png) [@Idle\_Thoughts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Idle_Thoughts)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2015, 10:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scores-killed-in-explosions-and-shootout-in-paris-hostages-being-held/737499/241 "2015-11-14T10:38:29Z")
> [@oz0ne](#): > > Shut the fuck up. If you want to speak this way to another poster, do it in the Pit. Do not do this again in this forum. ---
**Author:** ![Idle\_Thoughts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/838e76/32.png) [@Idle\_Thoughts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Idle_Thoughts)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2015, 10:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scores-killed-in-explosions-and-shootout-in-paris-hostages-being-held/737499/242 "2015-11-14T10:39:15Z")
> [@kambuckta](#): > > IOW, you’re a fucken wanker Monty. ☹ This is against the rules of this board, don’t insult others outside of the Pit. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2015, 10:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scores-killed-in-explosions-and-shootout-in-paris-hostages-being-held/737499/243 "2015-11-14T10:39:58Z")
> [@Idle\_Thoughts](#): > > If you want to speak this way to another poster, do it in the Pit. Do not do this again in this forum. Good morning, **Idle Thoughts**! Hope you got your coffee. ---
**Author:** ![Idle\_Thoughts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/838e76/32.png) [@Idle\_Thoughts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Idle_Thoughts)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2015, 10:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scores-killed-in-explosions-and-shootout-in-paris-hostages-being-held/737499/244 "2015-11-14T10:47:20Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > Good morning, **Idle Thoughts**! Hope you got your coffee. Yeah, it is pretty early here. 3:47 AM right now…but I’ve been up all night and not even been to sleep yet, so it’s more like I should be having my nightly hot chocolate instead. And to keep on track with the topic: I’ve been following this on news sites and TV since it happened. Crazy stuff. That’s a bit of an understatement, but I’m still at a loss for words why people would do these kinds of things. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2015, 10:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scores-killed-in-explosions-and-shootout-in-paris-hostages-being-held/737499/245 "2015-11-14T10:51:06Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > Methinks you got whooshed. My point is that even Japan, a notoriously peaceful society for the last 70 years, also has terrorists. So does Mexico but I don’t advocate profiling Mexicans because the numbers are miniscule. The numbers are not miniscule among Syrians, a people that have been whipped up into a frenzy over the decades by a violent government that once used extremism to its advantage and is now paying the price for it. Since we’re talking about poor education, let’s discuss the education Syrians got, where they were told that Jews were scum and that America is run by Jews. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2015, 10:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scores-killed-in-explosions-and-shootout-in-paris-hostages-being-held/737499/246 "2015-11-14T10:55:39Z")
ISIS is now announcing it was responsible. > [@Captain\_0bvious](#): > > Would French rules of engagement be crafted to avoid gender, racial, or religious bigotry in target selection? :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_0bvious](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9dc877/32.png) [@Captain\_0bvious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_0bvious)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2015, 11:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scores-killed-in-explosions-and-shootout-in-paris-hostages-being-held/737499/247 "2015-11-14T11:13:15Z")
According to the 2007 [Pew Research](http://www.pewresearch.org/files/old-assets/pdf/muslim-americans.pdf#page=60) only a tiny minority among Muslims support violence, such as, for example, suicide bombings: 26% of younger Muslims in America believe suicide bombings are justified. 35% of young Muslims in Britain believe suicide bombings are justified (24% overall). 42% of young Muslims in France believe suicide bombings are justified (35% overall). 22% of young Muslims in Germany believe suicide bombings are justified.(13% overall). 29% of young Muslims in Spain believe suicide bombings are justified.(25% overall). Should the actions of this tiny minority color our perception of the entire religious group? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2015, 11:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scores-killed-in-explosions-and-shootout-in-paris-hostages-being-held/737499/248 "2015-11-14T11:14:19Z")
Like I said in other threads, you either fight or do not fight. We were half fighting. So now this happens and now we’re going to get serious. ---
**Author:** ![Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a8b319/32.png) [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuzzy_wuzzy)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2015, 11:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scores-killed-in-explosions-and-shootout-in-paris-hostages-being-held/737499/249 "2015-11-14T11:18:36Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > How is it any better to make them to stay in Syria or whatever, where they’ll have direct contact and (sometimes forced) recruitment at the hands of those terrorists directly? Better for whom? Keeping them in Syria is not better for the “refugees”, but it is potentially better for Western societies. > [@Frank](#): > > Accepting this, which do you believe is a more effective way of dealing with the issue? > > 1. Social and economic efforts to integrate citizens more fully into the polity of the nation. > > 2. Bomb Muslims back to the Stone Age. I said nothing about bombing Muslims. Let’s face it, no-one knows for sure how this situation will play out. The West has dealt with Christian religous intolerance within its borders in the past, it was a bloody affair but one that was won in the end. Can we deal with Muslim intolerance the same way? I really don’t know. I suspect integrating “good Muslims” is good policy, as is killing bad ones also good policy. Yes, I realise these policies may conflict, but it’s probably the best option open to us. Other than advocating a carrot & stick approach I can’t offer much better. And to be honest I doubt the greatest Western experts on Muslim issues can offer anything more. We are all entering an unknown era. I really don’t pretend to have answers, and I distrust massively those who pretend to have them. They have no more answers than I do. Saying all this, I can’t help but have a dark feeling about the recent past. That allowing a large Muslim population into Europe was probably a huge fuck up on someone’s part. Having further large scale Muslim immigration into Europe is probably not a good idea. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2015, 11:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scores-killed-in-explosions-and-shootout-in-paris-hostages-being-held/737499/250 "2015-11-14T11:19:09Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > So now this happens and now we’re going to get serious. Yes, I think ISIS can expect a stepped-up bombing campaign now, at the very least. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2015, 11:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scores-killed-in-explosions-and-shootout-in-paris-hostages-being-held/737499/251 "2015-11-14T11:22:04Z")
> [@Captain\_0bvious](#): > > According to the 2007 [Pew Research](http://www.pewresearch.org/files/old-assets/pdf/muslim-americans.pdf#page=60) only a tiny minority among Muslims support violence, such as, for example, suicide bombings: > > 26% of younger Muslims in America believe suicide bombings are justified. > 35% of young Muslims in Britain believe suicide bombings are justified (24% overall). > 42% of young Muslims in France believe suicide bombings are justified (35% overall). > 22% of young Muslims in Germany believe suicide bombings are justified.(13% overall). > 29% of young Muslims in Spain believe suicide bombings are justified.(25% overall). > > Should the actions of this tiny minority color our perception of the entire religious group? This is the Straight Dope. At some point reality has to win the argument. This is not like the Japanese situation or domestic right-wing terrorists. This is a significant minority of a population in the grips of a death cult. Unless we can find a way to counter the brainwashing, which apparently occurs even in the West, or perhaps especially in the West, we don’t have a whole lot of options but to respond with a great deal of violence of our own and use profiling as part of our security measures, while trying to keep harassment of innocents to a minimum. The first step is to deny them territory to train recruits in. Recruitment is easy when everyone knows exactly where to find ISIS. Just go to ISIS controlled areas and say, “Hey, I want to volunteer for the jihad!” If they are forced to hide in caves it makes recruitment a lot harder, limiting would-be Western jihadis to idiots who think they can pull of a terror attack on their own. The guys who did this in France were well trained, and well trained because they were able to travel to ISISLand and get training. ---
**Author:** ![Rigamarole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/77aa72/32.png) [@Rigamarole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rigamarole)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2015, 11:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scores-killed-in-explosions-and-shootout-in-paris-hostages-being-held/737499/252 "2015-11-14T11:27:02Z")
> [@Captain\_0bvious](#): > > According to the 2007 [Pew Research](http://www.pewresearch.org/files/old-assets/pdf/muslim-americans.pdf#page=60) only a tiny minority among Muslims support violence, such as, for example, suicide bombings: > > 26% of younger Muslims in America believe suicide bombings are justified. > 35% of young Muslims in Britain believe suicide bombings are justified (24% overall). > 42% of young Muslims in France believe suicide bombings are justified (35% overall). > 22% of young Muslims in Germany believe suicide bombings are justified.(13% overall). > 29% of young Muslims in Spain believe suicide bombings are justified.(25% overall). > > Should the actions of this tiny minority color our perception of the entire religious group? Wow - you are really shooting yourself in the foot to even post that. Those numbers are not representative of a “tiny minority”. They may be less than 50%, but that’s a shockingly and totally unacceptably large chunk of Muslims who are claiming to support radical, violent insanity. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2015, 11:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scores-killed-in-explosions-and-shootout-in-paris-hostages-being-held/737499/253 "2015-11-14T11:27:23Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > This is the Straight Dope. At some point reality has to win the argument. Would that be your reality, or my reality? ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_0bvious](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9dc877/32.png) [@Captain\_0bvious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_0bvious)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2015, 11:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scores-killed-in-explosions-and-shootout-in-paris-hostages-being-held/737499/254 "2015-11-14T11:27:48Z")
> [@Rigamarole](#): > > Wow - you are really shooting yourself in the foot to even post that. Those numbers are not representative of a “tiny minority”. They may be less than 50%, but that’s a shockingly and totally unacceptably large chunk of Muslims who are claiming to support radical, violent insanity. Islam is a religion of peace. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2015, 11:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scores-killed-in-explosions-and-shootout-in-paris-hostages-being-held/737499/255 "2015-11-14T11:28:35Z")
ISIS is NOT a religion of peace. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2015, 11:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scores-killed-in-explosions-and-shootout-in-paris-hostages-being-held/737499/256 "2015-11-14T11:33:06Z")
> [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](#): > > Better for whom? Keeping them in Syria is not better for the “refugees”, but it is potentially better for Western societies. I don’t get the scare quotes. You think all these hundreds of people are spending money and dying for fun? Anyway, my point is that I wouldn’t be so sure that sending these people home would produce significantly fewer terrorists. > [@Rigamarole](#): > > Wow - you are really shooting yourself in the foot to even post that. Those numbers are not representative of a “tiny minority”. They may be less than 50%, but that’s a shockingly and totally unacceptably large chunk of Muslims who are claiming to support radical, violent insanity. First of all, I’m surprised you think that poster is a genuine liberal. Second, it sort of depends on what the thinking behind the rather ill defined answer of “rarely” means; I can easily see someone who’d usually answer “never” severely overthinking the question if presented with that option. ---
**Author:** ![Rigamarole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/77aa72/32.png) [@Rigamarole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rigamarole)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2015, 11:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scores-killed-in-explosions-and-shootout-in-paris-hostages-being-held/737499/257 "2015-11-14T11:35:18Z")
> [@Captain\_0bvious](#): > > Islam is a religion of peace. Clearly, if _only_ 30-40% believe suicide bombing is a totally kosher (or should we say halal) tactic. For a long time, the “only a tiny minority of Muslims are terrorists / support terrorism” has been the mantra of Islam apologists, but the statistics you just posted, if accurate, blow that idea right out of the water. 30-40% is not a “tiny minority” by any stretch of the imagination. Although honestly I still can’t tell what you’re really trying to say, since you’re so over the top about it it seems like you’re being sarcastic. ---
**Author:** ![JustinC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justinc/32/8083_2.png) [@JustinC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JustinC)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2015, 11:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scores-killed-in-explosions-and-shootout-in-paris-hostages-being-held/737499/258 "2015-11-14T11:35:58Z")
> [@Captain\_0bvious](#): > > According to the 2007 [Pew Research](http://www.pewresearch.org/files/old-assets/pdf/muslim-americans.pdf#page=60) only a tiny minority among Muslims support violence, such as, for example, suicide bombings: > > 26% of younger Muslims in America believe suicide bombings are justified. > 35% of young Muslims in Britain believe suicide bombings are justified (24% overall). > 42% of young Muslims in France believe suicide bombings are justified (35% overall). > 22% of young Muslims in Germany believe suicide bombings are justified.(13% overall). > 29% of young Muslims in Spain believe suicide bombings are justified.(25% overall). > > Should the actions of this tiny minority color our perception of the entire religious group? What were the numbers who thought justified the wars in Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria and Libya and the drone attacks in Dog knows how many other countries? ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2015, 11:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scores-killed-in-explosions-and-shootout-in-paris-hostages-being-held/737499/259 "2015-11-14T11:39:37Z")
> [@Rigamarole](#): > > Clearly, if _only_ 30-40% believe suicide bombing is a totally kosher (or should we say halal) tactic. > > For a long time, the “only a tiny minority of Muslims are terrorists / support terrorism” has been the mantra of Islam apologists, but the statistics you just posted, if accurate, blow that idea right out of the water. 30-40% is not a “tiny minority” by any stretch of the imagination. > > Although honestly I still can’t tell what you’re really trying to say, since you’re so over the top about it it seems like you’re being sarcastic. He just posted that the Germans should “fire up the ovens” when it comes to the refugees they let in. Draw your own conclusions. And I suggest reading the numbers and options in the doc yourself. ---
**Author:** ![Rigamarole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/77aa72/32.png) [@Rigamarole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rigamarole)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2015, 11:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scores-killed-in-explosions-and-shootout-in-paris-hostages-being-held/737499/260 "2015-11-14T11:41:04Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > He just posted that the Germans should “fire up the ovens” when it comes to the refugees they let in. Draw your own conclusions. Yeah, OK, I just noticed his join date as well. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scores-killed-in-explosions-and-shootout-in-paris-hostages-being-held/737499.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scores-killed-in-explosions-and-shootout-in-paris-hostages-being-held/737499.md?page=14)