# Scores killed in explosions and shootout in Paris. Hostages being held **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 13, 2015, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scores-killed-in-explosions-and-shootout-in-paris-hostages-being-held/737499 "2015-11-13T21:55:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a8b319/32.png) [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuzzy_wuzzy)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2015, 11:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scores-killed-in-explosions-and-shootout-in-paris-hostages-being-held/737499/261 "2015-11-14T11:41:53Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > I don’t get the scare quotes. You think all these hundreds of people are spending money and dying for fun? Anyway, my point is that I wouldn’t be so sure that sending these people home would produce significantly fewer terrorists. > > First of all, I’m surprised you think that poster is a genuine liberal. Second, it sort of depends on what the thinking behind the rather ill defined answer of “rarely” means; I can easily see someone who’d usually answer “never” severely overthinking the question if presented with that option. It wasn’t a scare quote. I put the quotes in because if the “refugees” remain in(or return to) Syria they are not refugees. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_0bvious](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9dc877/32.png) [@Captain\_0bvious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_0bvious)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2015, 11:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scores-killed-in-explosions-and-shootout-in-paris-hostages-being-held/737499/262 "2015-11-14T11:42:59Z")
> [@Rigamarole](#): > > Clearly, if _only_ 30-40% believe suicide bombing is a totally kosher (or should we say halal) tactic. > > For a long time, the “only a tiny minority of Muslims are terrorists / support terrorism” has been the mantra of Islam apologists, but the statistics you just posted, if accurate, blow that idea right out of the water. 30-40% is not a “tiny minority” by any stretch of the imagination. > > Although honestly I still can’t tell what you’re really trying to say, since you’re so over the top about it it seems like you’re being sarcastic. Well, there’re various ways to interpret this statistic, and it depends on what the thinking behind the rather ill defined answer of “rarely” means; I can easily see someone who’d usually answer “never” severely overthinking the question if presented with that option. I mean, right? And as far as the danger to the US is concerned, the World Public Opinion research [indicates](http://www.worldpublicopinion.org/pipa/pdf/feb09/STARTII_Feb09_rpt.pdf) that only tiny minority presents any danger to it: 61% of Egyptians approve of attacks on Americans 32% of Indonesians approve of attacks on Americans 41% of Pakistanis approve of attacks on Americans 38% of Moroccans approve of attacks on Americans 83% of Palestinians approve of some or most groups that attack Americans 62% of Jordanians approve of some or most groups that attack Americans 42% of Turks approve of some or most groups that attack Americans As Missis Clinton so eloquently [said](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2zVHgqj8His) we must understand these people, adapt to and emphasize with their point of view. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2015, 11:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scores-killed-in-explosions-and-shootout-in-paris-hostages-being-held/737499/263 "2015-11-14T11:55:30Z")
> [@Captain\_0bvious](#): > > Well, there’re various ways to interpret this statistic, and it depends on what the thinking behind the rather ill defined answer of “rarely” means; I can easily see someone who’d usually answer “never” severely overthinking the question if presented with that option. I mean, right? Cute. If you have a point, just say it. > [@](#): > > And as far as the danger to the US is concerned, the World Public Opinion research [indicates](http://www.worldpublicopinion.org/pipa/pdf/feb09/STARTII_Feb09_rpt.pdf) that only tiny minority presents any danger to it: > > 61% of Egyptians approve of attacks on Americans > 32% of Indonesians approve of attacks on Americans > 41% of Pakistanis approve of attacks on Americans > 38% of Moroccans approve of attacks on Americans > 83% of Palestinians approve of some or most groups that attack Americans > 62% of Jordanians approve of some or most groups that attack Americans > 42% of Turks approve of some or most groups that attack Americans > > As Missis Clinton so eloquently [said](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2zVHgqj8His) we must understand these people, adapt to and emphasize with their point of view. I looked over the linked document, and I have absolutely no idea where these numbers are coming from. What I did see was the words, in bold lettering, “large majorities denounce attacks on American civilians.” You’d have been better off talking about the polls referring to American troops stationed in the Middle East. At least there’s something to those. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2015, 12:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scores-killed-in-explosions-and-shootout-in-paris-hostages-being-held/737499/264 "2015-11-14T12:07:27Z")
> [@JustinC](#): > > What were the numbers who thought justified the wars in Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria and Libya and the drone attacks in Dog knows how many other countries? ARe you implying that Muslims support ISIS and Al Qaeda in the same way that Westerners support their countries? ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_0bvious](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9dc877/32.png) [@Captain\_0bvious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_0bvious)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2015, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scores-killed-in-explosions-and-shootout-in-paris-hostages-being-held/737499/265 "2015-11-14T12:25:09Z")
Btw, is everyone real clear who the **real** Muslims are and who are not? It is very important to differentiate between the two groups. The **real** Muslims interpret Qur’an correctly, while those that are not, interpret it incorrectly. In a few hours, all across France and other Western countries, tens (or even hundreds) of thousands of **real** Muslims will go to the streets to make their **real** feelings about these events known. Sure, the tiny minority that supports these reprehensible events will stay at home, but the turnout at upcoming demonstrations will, once again, show to the world the breadth and scope of the **real** Islamic community. Even in non-Western countries, there will be huge numbers of **real** Muslims making their feelings known to the world. ---
**Author:** ![JustinC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justinc/32/8083_2.png) [@JustinC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JustinC)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2015, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scores-killed-in-explosions-and-shootout-in-paris-hostages-being-held/737499/266 "2015-11-14T12:26:38Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > ARe you implying that Muslims support ISIS and Al Qaeda in the same way that Westerners support their countries? No, I’m sure some Muslims supported the wars I mentioned but I don’t know the figures. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2015, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scores-killed-in-explosions-and-shootout-in-paris-hostages-being-held/737499/267 "2015-11-14T12:42:14Z")
Awesome. I’m actually really optimistic about the success of a ground offensive at this point because ISIS has alienated so many people that they will find it hard to hide among the populace. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2015, 12:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scores-killed-in-explosions-and-shootout-in-paris-hostages-being-held/737499/268 "2015-11-14T12:45:38Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Awesome. What, he asked with some trepidation, is this word in reference to? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2015, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scores-killed-in-explosions-and-shootout-in-paris-hostages-being-held/737499/269 "2015-11-14T12:55:32Z")
Justin’s response. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2015, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scores-killed-in-explosions-and-shootout-in-paris-hostages-being-held/737499/270 "2015-11-14T13:11:24Z")
Do you guys have any concept of the screening that US refugees go through? It can take decades or years to complete, and it screens out countless people. That’s one reason why we tend to take more from groups like orphaned kids that grew up in camps. Ordinary people have too much personal history to ever be considered. ---
**Author:** ![Ale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@Ale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ale)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2015, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scores-killed-in-explosions-and-shootout-in-paris-hostages-being-held/737499/271 "2015-11-14T13:12:47Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > ISIS is NOT a religion of peace. Captain Obvious is having some fun by yanking people’s chains; it takes a _special_ kind of person to use this tragedy to that end. ---
**Author:** ![Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de053/32.png) [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackknifed_Juggernaut)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2015, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scores-killed-in-explosions-and-shootout-in-paris-hostages-being-held/737499/272 "2015-11-14T13:18:00Z")
> [@Captain\_0bvious](#): > > According to the 2007 [Pew Research](http://www.pewresearch.org/files/old-assets/pdf/muslim-americans.pdf#page=60) only a tiny minority among Muslims support violence, such as, for example, suicide bombings: > > 26% of younger Muslims in America believe suicide bombings are justified. > 35% of young Muslims in Britain believe suicide bombings are justified (24% overall). > 42% of young Muslims in France believe suicide bombings are justified (35% overall). > 22% of young Muslims in Germany believe suicide bombings are justified.(13% overall). > 29% of young Muslims in Spain believe suicide bombings are justified.(25% overall). > > Should the actions of this tiny minority color our perception of the entire religious group? I have to admit those are some crazy stats. Without going through the whole study, are they referring to suicide bombings in which innocents are harmed? ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2015, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scores-killed-in-explosions-and-shootout-in-paris-hostages-being-held/737499/273 "2015-11-14T13:18:14Z")
As best as I can figure, there is a strong possibility that some of the killers are still on the loose. Unless the restaurant shooters were also the suicide bombers, they are unaccounted for. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2015, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scores-killed-in-explosions-and-shootout-in-paris-hostages-being-held/737499/274 "2015-11-14T13:23:17Z")
My understanding is the restaurant shooters went from the restaurant to the theater. The restaurant shooters and the theater shooters were one and the same, and ended with their suicide bombings. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2015, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scores-killed-in-explosions-and-shootout-in-paris-hostages-being-held/737499/275 "2015-11-14T13:25:10Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > My understanding is the restaurant shooters went from the restaurant to the theater. The restaurant shooters and the theater shooters were one and the same, and ended with their suicide bombings. OK, that makes sense. I wasn’t certain of the timeline. Also, I suppose that if the French suspected some still lived, there’d be a manhunt above and beyond the search for accomplices. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2015, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scores-killed-in-explosions-and-shootout-in-paris-hostages-being-held/737499/276 "2015-11-14T13:44:53Z")
**Captain 0bvious** is no longer among us, so please avoid replying directly back to his posts. ---
**Author:** ![Hyperelastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Hyperelastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hyperelastic)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2015, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scores-killed-in-explosions-and-shootout-in-paris-hostages-being-held/737499/277 "2015-11-14T14:00:05Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > By the way, what do you think the ideas are that are motivating them (and by _them_, I mean either the “nice Christians” or the extremist Muslims)? If you will say that Islam is their motivation, then you will be talking from extreme ignorance. You don’t have to speculate; just read their press releases. They say it’s jihad and I believe them. There are always side issues. Hitler’s rise was abetted by the harsh reparations after WWI, blah blah blah. It didn’t matter. We still had to send the bastard to hell. The conflict between Islam and the secular West is fundamental and will take centuries to resolve. It’s in a shooting phase now. If the French think France is worth preserving, then I guess they had better shoot back, expel those of questionable loyalty, and be ready for more attacks. If they’re OK with France turning into a sort of Islamicized mishmash like Malaysia, then I’ll be very sorry to see it go, but it’s their country. ---
**Author:** ![Ranchoth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranchoth/32/1066_2.png) [@Ranchoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranchoth)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2015, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scores-killed-in-explosions-and-shootout-in-paris-hostages-being-held/737499/278 "2015-11-14T14:01:18Z")
> [@WF\_Tomba](#): > > Carrying out attacks on other countries gives us a satisfying feeling of retribution, but doesn’t do anything about the problem in the long run. It’s a virus of extremism that will just have to run its course. Well, shoot, if medical analogies work, you can also fight a virus by turning up the heat so that it’s hard for the disease to breed; or by introducing enough killed viruses into a vulnerable area that it starts fighting off any live ones that arrive and try to replicate themselves, as a defense mechanism; or by debriding infected regions, allowing them to heal back harmlessly, if with scarring\*… Actually, there’s also trying to fight it by deliberately, desperately taking on the characteristics of a wild monkey, but that [didn’t really work](http://openwetware.org/wiki/Bone_Marrow_Transplants,_by_Erinn_Dandley_and_Max_Nowak#AIDS)…although cleansing the hopelessly decadent and corruptable genes of the target through irradiation, [and reseeding the reservoirs of what remained with the blood born of hearty German stock](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Berlin_Patient), [bred true through the adversity of overcoming remorseless nature](http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/evolution/library/10/4/l_104_05.html), actually seemed to work… :eek: Or, hey—there’s _another_ analogy: You fight the _cancer_ of extremism by precise, surgical operations where at all possible, followed by larger, more radical excisions of relatively expendable or useless areas, and then you start hitting it with [cobalt bombs](http://www.cap.ca/en/node/2534) and [mustard agents](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nitrogen_mustard) until there’s not even enough left to find with a microscope… Then you get tattooed to highlight your scars and celebrate your achievement. 'Sometimes the President makes you Batman, even. \*“ISIS: It’s like Herpes…irritating, but you can burn it away with lasers, now!” ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2015, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scores-killed-in-explosions-and-shootout-in-paris-hostages-being-held/737499/279 "2015-11-14T14:18:36Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > **Captain 0bvious** is no longer among us, so please avoid replying directly back to his posts. It’s funny, it took me a minute to realize I was looking at a zero. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2015, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scores-killed-in-explosions-and-shootout-in-paris-hostages-being-held/737499/280 "2015-11-14T14:21:36Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > It’s funny, it took me a minute to realize I was looking at a zero. Yeah, tell that to the poster Captain Obvious I briefly banned… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scores-killed-in-explosions-and-shootout-in-paris-hostages-being-held/737499.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scores-killed-in-explosions-and-shootout-in-paris-hostages-being-held/737499.md?page=15)