# Scores killed in explosions and shootout in Paris. Hostages being held **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 13, 2015, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scores-killed-in-explosions-and-shootout-in-paris-hostages-being-held/737499 "2015-11-13T21:55:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Sampsiceramos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Sampsiceramos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampsiceramos)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2015, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scores-killed-in-explosions-and-shootout-in-paris-hostages-being-held/737499/81 "2015-11-14T00:44:12Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > The calls for boots-on-the-ground war and some kind of racial/religious discrimination/genocide seem almost inevitable, even on this side of the Atlantic. I can only hope that cooler heads prevail. ISIS arose out of a power vacuum created by a boots-on-the-ground war done wrong. It may take doing a boots-on-the-ground war right to stamp them out - and by doing it right, I mean maintaining military jurisdiction over Syria and Iraq for the better part of a century rather than fucking off the instant thing seem to have cooled down. I’m not strictly in favour of it, but it just might be necessary. ---
**Author:** ![Locrian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/locrian/32/14146_2.png) [@Locrian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Locrian)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2015, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scores-killed-in-explosions-and-shootout-in-paris-hostages-being-held/737499/82 "2015-11-14T00:45:14Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > The calls for boots-on-the-ground war and some kind of racial/religious discrimination/genocide seem almost inevitable, even on this side of the Atlantic. I can only hope that cooler heads prevail. I was thinking that terrorists attacking UK countries would force the US into a ground war with our allies. Part of their little plan? Who the fuck knows. They’re fucking shit-brained. ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2015, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scores-killed-in-explosions-and-shootout-in-paris-hostages-being-held/737499/83 "2015-11-14T00:46:48Z")
_Recreational_ outrage? ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2015, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scores-killed-in-explosions-and-shootout-in-paris-hostages-being-held/737499/84 "2015-11-14T00:49:34Z")
While BBC is has been reporting 100 dead at the Bataclan for the past hour or so, the French network TF1 is still declining to assign a number. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2015, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scores-killed-in-explosions-and-shootout-in-paris-hostages-being-held/737499/85 "2015-11-14T00:50:18Z")
> [@Locrian](#): > > I was thinking that terrorists attacking UK countries would force the US into a ground war with our allies. Part of their little plan? Who the fuck knows. They’re fucking shit-brained. I was thinking about that, but when the triggering event doesn’t take place in the U.S., I have to wonder just how eager the average voter is going to be to send their kids to war to support foreign allies, given the war-weary atmosphere the past few years. ---
**Author:** ![JoseB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/joseb/32/1530_2.png) [@JoseB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoseB)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2015, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scores-killed-in-explosions-and-shootout-in-paris-hostages-being-held/737499/86 "2015-11-14T00:51:32Z")
> [@El\_Kabong](#): > > While BBC is has been reporting 100 dead at the Bataclan for the past hour or so, the French network TF1 is still declining to assign a number. FWIW, the Dutch news report 100 dead in the concert hall. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2015, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scores-killed-in-explosions-and-shootout-in-paris-hostages-being-held/737499/87 "2015-11-14T01:00:55Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > They might as well carry out mass attacks on the U.S. to see how many powerful militaries with nukes they can really piss off. Well, no matter what they do, we’re not about to nuke Mosul, are we? ---
**Author:** ![Cazzle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cazzle/32/75_2.png) [@Cazzle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cazzle)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2015, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scores-killed-in-explosions-and-shootout-in-paris-hostages-being-held/737499/88 "2015-11-14T01:02:03Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > BBC is saying unconfirmed, and they stress unconfirmed, the The Jungle is one fire. That’s the camp at Calais. If confirmed, they think it could be a revenge attack. Irresponsible reporting. I had already seen that image many minutes earlier on Twitter, and there were already responses explaining that it was an unrelated incident from another day entirely. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2015, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scores-killed-in-explosions-and-shootout-in-paris-hostages-being-held/737499/89 "2015-11-14T01:02:39Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > Maybe this is a way to get Russia, France and the U.S. to get over their petty differences and get rid of some of that excess nuclear inventory at the same time. I know a large patch of desert that would be the perfect place to dispose of it. Perhaps you would care to explain clearly how your mindset of advocating the nuking of millions of innocents is different from the mindset of the terrorists who killed scores of innocents? ---
**Author:** ![JoseB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/joseb/32/1530_2.png) [@JoseB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoseB)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2015, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scores-killed-in-explosions-and-shootout-in-paris-hostages-being-held/737499/90 "2015-11-14T01:04:12Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > Perhaps you would care to explain clearly how your mindset of advocating the nuking of millions of innocents is different from the mindset of the terrorists who killed scores of innocents? “Kill them all, let God sort them out”, I guess…? (Not that I advocate that philosophy, but it was purportedly formulated a long time ago…) ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2015, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scores-killed-in-explosions-and-shootout-in-paris-hostages-being-held/737499/91 "2015-11-14T01:06:07Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > I was thinking about that, but when the triggering event doesn’t take place in the U.S., I have to wonder just how eager the average voter is going to be to send their kids to war to support foreign allies, given the war-weary atmosphere the past few years. But this “war” is coming soon to a country near you (i.e. the USA). This is where the evil bastards really want to carry out their massacres. We (the USA) are the Big Prize. Just as soon as these animals figure out a way to get in and attack here, they will. The question is, do we wait for that attack before we react with real force? Or do we act preemptively. I am not a fan of preemptive war. Not at all. But this whole thing isn’t going to just run it’s course. It’s going to take decisive military action and lots and lots of blood to even attempt to stop this. Is this just a Middle East problem? Just a European problem? Or is it an issue on which the entire world must unite to aggressively address. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2015, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scores-killed-in-explosions-and-shootout-in-paris-hostages-being-held/737499/92 "2015-11-14T01:09:45Z")
True, **BrainGlutton** … it is not as if there is a proper capital to level with a firestorm and they know it > [@Sampsiceramos](#): > > Before Islamic terrorism, there were communist and nationalist terrorists, and before them, anarchists. It’s not as if Europe doesn’t have a long and dreary history of radical attacks on innocent civilians even if you discount Islamic terrorism entirely. True – Red Brigades, ETA, Red Army Faction, Provisional IRA, heck go all the way back to Gavrilo Princip triggering WW1. I remember a satyrical headline shortly after 9/11 along the lines of: _"Britain, Israel, Spain, Italy, India to US: Welcome to the F_\*_ing Club"_ However… > [@Tithonus](#): > > But Islamic terrorists are just _worse_ in several ways. Firstly, they’re striking _today_, which means that the fear they elicit is _massively_ amplified by social media. Secondly, it’s much harder to discourage them because they have no fear of death. Indeed, it’s easy to argue that, for them, being killed is largely the point. You could satisfy ETA and the IRA by surrendering the Basque Country or Northern Ireland, and Spain and Britain may have been able to shake it off and say “it’s YOUR problem now”. This new generation of threat, OTOH, is a whole another can of worms… Plus now we know islamofascist terrorists apparently hate Cambodian restaurants ☹ BTW, is Friday 13 considered an evil date in French culture? ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2015, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scores-killed-in-explosions-and-shootout-in-paris-hostages-being-held/737499/93 "2015-11-14T01:10:31Z")
> [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](#): > > But this “war” is coming soon to a country near you (i.e. the USA). This is where the evil bastards really want to carry out their massacres. We (the USA) are the Big Prize. Just as soon as these animals figure out a way to get in and attack here, they will. The question is, do we wait for that attack before we react with real force? Or do we act preemptively. > > I am not a fan of preemptive war. Not at all. But this whole thing isn’t going to just run it’s course. It’s going to take decisive military action and lots and lots of blood to even attempt to stop this. Is this just a Middle East problem? Just a European problem? Or is it an issue on which the entire world must unite to aggressively address. And I’m saying we’ve heard this before, 14 years ago, after an attack that actually happened on American soil. Now that all the subsequent events and their consequences have become clear, I don’t think there are a lot of people who’ll forget that the exact same rhetoric was already used, and it arguably led to this entire situation to begin with, AND it wasn’t this country that was directly attacked this time. I think that HAS to have an impact. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2015, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scores-killed-in-explosions-and-shootout-in-paris-hostages-being-held/737499/94 "2015-11-14T01:10:48Z")
Through Reuters, French foreign ministry is reporting that French airports and international rail links will remain open for now. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2015, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scores-killed-in-explosions-and-shootout-in-paris-hostages-being-held/737499/95 "2015-11-14T01:13:02Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > The calls for boots-on-the-ground war and some kind of racial/religious discrimination/genocide seem almost inevitable, even on this side of the Atlantic. I can only hope that cooler heads prevail. Something like this was due to happen, sooner or later. There’s no difference between the situation yesterday and the situation today. I’m worried about the consequences it will have on the political climate in France, on the public opinion and on public liberties. I find the fact that they decreed a state of emergency worrisome. I hope they have good reasons for doing that, that it serves a real purpose, rather than to be implemented as a political gesture to convince the public that they’re taking this event very, very seriously. ---
**Author:** ![Locrian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/locrian/32/14146_2.png) [@Locrian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Locrian)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2015, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scores-killed-in-explosions-and-shootout-in-paris-hostages-being-held/737499/96 "2015-11-14T01:16:57Z")
> [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](#): > > But this “war” is coming soon to a country near you (i.e. the USA). This is where the evil bastards really want to carry out their massacres. We (the USA) are the Big Prize. Just as soon as these animals figure out a way to get in and attack here, they will. The question is, do we wait for that attack before we react with real force? Or do we act preemptively. > > I am not a fan of preemptive war. Not at all. But this whole thing isn’t going to just run it’s course. It’s going to take decisive military action and lots and lots of blood to even attempt to stop this. Is this just a Middle East problem? Just a European problem? Or is it an issue on which the entire world must unite to aggressively address. I am really leaning to agree with you. And we’re at least one of the big prizes-- the nut jobs have their heart set on the whole fucking globe. Maybe they never heard of Ancient Rome. But do we or any of our other allies have locations on cells or bases in other regions like Syria and Iraq? Are we just watching? Should we send nukes from ships? I don’t even know what anyone knows about the terrorist locations and training camps. If we don’t have this info, we send in troops? Ugh. I have no knowledge in this. ---
**Author:** ![truthSeeker2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7cd45c/32.png) [@truthSeeker2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/truthSeeker2)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2015, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scores-killed-in-explosions-and-shootout-in-paris-hostages-being-held/737499/97 "2015-11-14T01:23:22Z")
RIP Day-to-day stuff for Religion of piss. Only thing is it’ll get slightly more coverage than it had got if it happened in a place like say Afghanistan. ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2015, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scores-killed-in-explosions-and-shootout-in-paris-hostages-being-held/737499/98 "2015-11-14T01:24:01Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > Perhaps you would care to explain clearly how your mindset of advocating the nuking of millions of innocents is different from the mindset of the terrorists who killed scores of innocents? It was a very dark joke that I don’t truly advocate because I don’t want to live in a world where nuclear use is allowed for anything less than MAD defensive purposes. That said, I don’t believe that all cultures are equal and that the Middle East will ever get better on its own because of their own historical and current religious conflicts. As long as they keep their brutal conflicts on their own soil, I am a non-interventionist. However, when they start exporting their brutality en masse to Europe or the U.S., I am all for a multinational campaign that destroys ISIS’s territory regardless of how many people it kills. Cruise missiles and conventional bombs can do that job just as well as nukes if you use enough of them. That said, I would prefer that the U.S. be involved as little as possible at this point. I have no idea what ISIS was thinking when they took on Putin deliberately but that could be a strong advantage because Putin is the last dictator on Earth that I would pick a fight with. The man takes his power seriously and still has plenty of resources to back it up compared to most countries. Let him lead the campaign to destroy ISIS. ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2015, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scores-killed-in-explosions-and-shootout-in-paris-hostages-being-held/737499/99 "2015-11-14T01:25:15Z")
> [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](#): > > But this “war” is coming soon to a country near you (i.e. the USA). This is where the evil bastards really want to carry out their massacres. We (the USA) are the Big Prize. But that’s _because_ we (the USA) meddle in the Middle East, isn’t it? How is sending _more_ American troops to the Middle East going to improve the situation?? ---
**Author:** ![ivylass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9de053/32.png) [@ivylass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivylass)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2015, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scores-killed-in-explosions-and-shootout-in-paris-hostages-being-held/737499/100 "2015-11-14T01:25:29Z")
Things seem to have quietened down. No more reports of attacks. The police/military got the concert hall cleared very quickly, from what I could tell. 118 dead there is what I’m hearing, plus another attack at a shopping mall. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scores-killed-in-explosions-and-shootout-in-paris-hostages-being-held/737499.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scores-killed-in-explosions-and-shootout-in-paris-hostages-being-held/737499.md?page=6)