# Scores killed in explosions and shootout in Paris. Hostages being held **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 13, 2015, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scores-killed-in-explosions-and-shootout-in-paris-hostages-being-held/737499 "2015-11-13T21:55:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Sampsiceramos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Sampsiceramos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampsiceramos)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2015, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scores-killed-in-explosions-and-shootout-in-paris-hostages-being-held/737499/101 "2015-11-14T01:27:51Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > It was a very dark joke that I don’t truly advocate because I don’t want to live in a world where nuclear use is allowed for anything less than MAD defensive purposes. > > That said, I don’t believe that all cultures are equal and that the Middle East will ever get better on its own because of their own historical and current religious conflicts. As long as they keep their brutal conflicts on their own soil, I am a non-interventionist. However, when they start exporting their brutality en masse to Europe or the U.S., I am all for a multinational campaign that destroys ISIS’s territory regardless of how many people it kills. Cruise missiles and conventional bombs can do that job just as well as nukes if you use enough of them. > > That said, I would prefer that the U.S. be involved as little as possible at this point. I have no idea what ISIS was thinking when they took on Putin deliberately but that could be a strong advantage because Putin is the last dictator on Earth that I would pick a fight with. The man takes his power seriously and still has plenty of resources to back it up compared to most countries. Let him lead the campaign to destroy ISIS. Having Putin head a crack-down operation on terrorism would be like appointing a serial arsonist fire chief. He has only ever worsened the situation in Chechnya and bears a significant amount of responsibility for Russia’s issues with domestic terrorism. His methods would only result in perpetuation of the violence. I would rather enlist myself than watch a military with a history of absolutely callous disregard for life, civilian and otherwise, attempt to rectify the situation in the Middle East. ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2015, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scores-killed-in-explosions-and-shootout-in-paris-hostages-being-held/737499/102 "2015-11-14T01:28:46Z")
[I endorse this message.](http://i.imgur.com/4KuBhDA.png) (NSFW) ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2015, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scores-killed-in-explosions-and-shootout-in-paris-hostages-being-held/737499/103 "2015-11-14T01:28:57Z")
> [@scr4](#): > > But that’s _because_ we (the USA) meddle in the Middle East, isn’t it? How is sending _more_ American troops to the Middle East going to improve the situation?? That’s why I think the ultimate goal that some folks want (not necessarily anyone in this thread or board, mind you) is to round up all the brown-skinned people, blow up all the mosques, nuke Mecca, make Islam illegal, and just move in and outright conquer every country with a “q” in its name. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2015, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scores-killed-in-explosions-and-shootout-in-paris-hostages-being-held/737499/104 "2015-11-14T01:29:37Z")
I’ve been wondering how long it would take to have a returned-fighter attack. Now, as Europe locks down, the terrorists can rest assured that the masses of refugees won’t slip from their grasp by being integrated into Europe, thus securing a future generation of hopeless people to carry the torch. It will also suit their purposes to make it harder for foreign fighters to leave the cause. They’d rather foreign fighters be stuck in Syria until they are killed. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2015, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scores-killed-in-explosions-and-shootout-in-paris-hostages-being-held/737499/105 "2015-11-14T01:29:52Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > Witness who escaped from the Bataclan concert venue says that the gunmen mentioned Syria. I wonder if this is ISIS related. Supposedly France helped carry out attacks against ISIS in Syria. However so did a lot of other countries. I have no idea why France would be picked as a target. Is it because they have a large domestic population of Islamists who were already there? So does Britain. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2015, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scores-killed-in-explosions-and-shootout-in-paris-hostages-being-held/737499/106 "2015-11-14T01:30:47Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > I think violence should be a last resort. But when things like this happen, I think civilised countries might consider going Machiavellian on the terrorists. Putin might be the one to do it, since a Russian airliner was apparently bombed and terrorist groups have said they plan to strike in Russia itself. France sank a Greenpeace ship in 1981. I wouldn’t be surprised if terrorists started turning up dead. They may have finally gone too far. yep. Its time to take a page from Mossad’s book. Hunt these terrorists down one by one and execute them. No matter how long it takes. Agents working leads can take direct action. Combined with drone strikes, a well planned counterterrorism policy can be highly effective. It’s time that the people inspiring and training these fanatics be held personally accountable for their activities. A precise surgical strike like this is much better than sending troops on the ground. Too many innocents die when blunt force is used. ---
**Author:** ![JoseB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/joseb/32/1530_2.png) [@JoseB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoseB)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2015, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scores-killed-in-explosions-and-shootout-in-paris-hostages-being-held/737499/107 "2015-11-14T01:33:17Z")
> [@scr4](#): > > But that’s _because_ we (the USA) meddle in the Middle East, isn’t it? How is sending _more_ American troops to the Middle East going to improve the situation?? Well, extremely dark thoughts might end up going along the lines of “it is them or us”. As a matter of fact a talking head on Spanish TV said not a half hour ago that this was “total war” (in the WWII sense). Go far enough down this line of thought and a way of ending the situation might be decided that basically calls for the genocide of the other side. And it is not as if this has never been done before. History has plenty of examples. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2015, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scores-killed-in-explosions-and-shootout-in-paris-hostages-being-held/737499/108 "2015-11-14T01:37:51Z")
> [@J](#): > > BTW, is Friday 13 considered an evil date in French culture? Yes. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2015, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scores-killed-in-explosions-and-shootout-in-paris-hostages-being-held/737499/109 "2015-11-14T01:41:56Z")
Fuckdamn, so they probably also took the date in mind when plotting this… and it will reinforce it {{{{{{{{{{Parisians}}}}}}}}}} ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2015, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scores-killed-in-explosions-and-shootout-in-paris-hostages-being-held/737499/110 "2015-11-14T01:42:03Z")
It’s the date the King killed off the Templars. ---
**Author:** ![ivylass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9de053/32.png) [@ivylass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivylass)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2015, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scores-killed-in-explosions-and-shootout-in-paris-hostages-being-held/737499/111 "2015-11-14T01:42:47Z")
Wow. Geraldo Rivera’s daughter was at the soccer stadium. She’s fine…talking to her dad now on Fox. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2015, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scores-killed-in-explosions-and-shootout-in-paris-hostages-being-held/737499/112 "2015-11-14T01:46:18Z")
> [@ivylass](#): > > Wow. Geraldo Rivera’s daughter was at the soccer stadium. She’s fine…talking to her dad now on Fox. The dark side of the Global Village, as mentioned earlier. OTOH yes, we are all New York, we are all Paris, we are all London and Madrid and Mumbai and Beslan… ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2015, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scores-killed-in-explosions-and-shootout-in-paris-hostages-being-held/737499/113 "2015-11-14T01:47:56Z")
Ironically, November 13 is [World Kindness Day](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Kindness_Day). Glad you’re safe, **clairobscur**. ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2015, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scores-killed-in-explosions-and-shootout-in-paris-hostages-being-held/737499/114 "2015-11-14T01:57:06Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > Fuckdamn, so they probably also took the date in mind when plotting this… and it will reinforce it If they really wanted to do the whole “significant date” thing they might have attacked two days earlier. If this had been 11/11 instead of today the French might have blamed the Germans for a veeeeeery late reaction to the WWI armistice. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2015, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scores-killed-in-explosions-and-shootout-in-paris-hostages-being-held/737499/115 "2015-11-14T02:02:18Z")
> [@ivylass](#): > > Wow. Geraldo Rivera’s daughter was at the soccer stadium. She’s fine…talking to her dad now on Fox. [Geraldo Rivera and Shepard Smith Video here.](http://www.mediaite.com/tv/an-emotional-geraldo-reveals-on-air-his-daughter-was-at-paris-stadium-during-attack/) ---
**Author:** ![Ryan\_Liam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ryan_liam/32/3965_2.png) [@Ryan\_Liam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryan_Liam)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2015, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scores-killed-in-explosions-and-shootout-in-paris-hostages-being-held/737499/116 "2015-11-14T02:05:30Z")
This shit with Islamic extremism will not end until the message is severely curtailed, for example, Saudi Arabian propagation of Wahabbist thought financed through petrol dollars. The mind boggles why Western (And even Chinese and Russian) leaders haven’t all closed ranks and told the Saudis to sort their shit out. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2015, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scores-killed-in-explosions-and-shootout-in-paris-hostages-being-held/737499/117 "2015-11-14T02:08:36Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > I wonder if this is ISIS related. Supposedly France helped carry out attacks against ISIS in Syria. > > However so did a lot of other countries. I have no idea why France would be picked as a target. Is it because they have a large domestic population of Islamists who were already there? So does Britain. France has been involved in many military operations against Islamists, directly (Afghanistan, Mali, indeed now Iraq and Syria…) or less directly (Algeria, Libya, Nigeria…). And is more generally very active politically in the middle east and northern Africa. It’s one of the most obvious and logical target, on par with the UK. And anyway, it’s not like you can assume that a less involved country would be safe. I wouldn’t be the slighest bit surprised if there was an attack on, say, Germany, next month. Especially since these attacks don’t need to be ordered by the leaders of an organization like ISIS. Any loon living in Finland could decide to follow the example and kill some crusaders. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2015, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scores-killed-in-explosions-and-shootout-in-paris-hostages-being-held/737499/118 "2015-11-14T02:11:31Z")
President Hollande was apparently at that stadium when the attack began. They’ve killed five terrorists. Have any been captured? BBC just showed live footage of Freedom Tower in New York City, on the site of the 9/11 attack. The pole on top is now lit up like the French flag. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2015, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scores-killed-in-explosions-and-shootout-in-paris-hostages-being-held/737499/119 "2015-11-14T02:13:45Z")
> [@](#): > > “To all those who have seen these awful things, I want to say we are going to lead a war which will be pitiless. Because when terrorists are capable of committing such atrocities they must be certain that they are facing a determined France, a united France, a France that is together and does not let itself be moved, even if today we express infinite sorrow.” [https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews-live/liveblog/live-updates-attacks-in-paris/#3799da91-3057-4833-9a21-271c388b2e53](https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews-live/liveblog/live-updates-attacks-in-paris/#3799da91-3057-4833-9a21-271c388b2e53) ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2015, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scores-killed-in-explosions-and-shootout-in-paris-hostages-being-held/737499/120 "2015-11-14T02:16:33Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > It’s the date the King killed off the Templars. Jacques de Molay, thou art again avenged! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scores-killed-in-explosions-and-shootout-in-paris-hostages-being-held/737499.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scores-killed-in-explosions-and-shootout-in-paris-hostages-being-held/737499.md?page=7)