# Scores killed in explosions and shootout in Paris. Hostages being held **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 13, 2015, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scores-killed-in-explosions-and-shootout-in-paris-hostages-being-held/737499 "2015-11-13T21:55:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2015, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scores-killed-in-explosions-and-shootout-in-paris-hostages-being-held/737499/161 "2015-11-14T05:02:31Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > That doesn’t make sense on face value. If they keep the same level of output they’re losing money. right now it’s at 1970 prices. When you factor in inflation it has to be hurting them. > > And if we’re pumping more oil then the only way they can maintain market share is to increase production. And yet, if you read the economic analysts who are discussing world oil prices, it’s [precisely](http://www.theweek.co.uk/oil-price/60838/oil-price-traders-blindsided-as-oil-inventories-build-towards-80-year-high)what is happening. > [@](#): > > The latest surge in supply is happening in spite of consistent falls in output from US shale oil producers who are engaged in a production turf war with the Opec cartel. Now that it senses victory, there is little hint that the 12-nation bloc will loosen its grip anytime soon despite the ravages to some of its economies. Opec’s de facto leader, Saudi Arabia, seems content to live off its ample cash reserves while it secures a stranglehold on supply. and > [@](#): > > Prices will not recover more strongly because of signs the 12-nation Opec cartel, led by Saudi Arabia, will continue to hold exports at high levels to “defend—and gain—market share”, the Wall Street Journal adds. The latest signal that this policy remains set in is the decision by Saudi Arabia to begin supplying crude oil to Sweden and Poland, in what amounts to a direct challenge to Russia. And from a [New York Times article](http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2015/business/energy-environment/oil-prices.html)from about six weeks ago: > [@](#): > > Iran, Venezuela and Algeria have been pressing the cartel to cut production to firm up prices, but Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates and other gulf allies are refusing to do so. At the same time, Iraq is actually pumping more. > > Saudi officials have said that if they cut production and prices go up, they will lose market share and merely benefit their competitors. They say they are willing to see oil prices go much lower, but some oil analysts think they are merely bluffing. > > The death of King Abdullah in January prompted speculation that Saudi Arabia could shift direction, but there has been no softening in the Saudi public position in recent days. These are all recent articles, but this issue of OPEC countries continuing to pump oil in order to drive down prices and maintain global market share has been discussed in the financial press consistently over the course of this year. ---
**Author:** ![Mosier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ea924/32.png) [@Mosier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mosier)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2015, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scores-killed-in-explosions-and-shootout-in-paris-hostages-being-held/737499/162 "2015-11-14T05:13:44Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > If you will say that Islam is their motivation, then you will be talking from extreme ignorance. If you were able to ask the Paris attackers what their motivation was, and get an honest answer from them, what do you suppose they would say? ---
**Author:** ![Locrian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/locrian/32/14146_2.png) [@Locrian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Locrian)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2015, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scores-killed-in-explosions-and-shootout-in-paris-hostages-being-held/737499/163 "2015-11-14T05:19:00Z")
> [@Mosier](#): > > If you were able to ask the Paris attackers what their motivation was, and get an honest answer from them, what do you suppose they would say? To kill people. They’re not killing for anything other than killing. ---
**Author:** ![bb49](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b38774/32.png) [@bb49](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bb49)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2015, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scores-killed-in-explosions-and-shootout-in-paris-hostages-being-held/737499/164 "2015-11-14T05:20:07Z")
One of the promises that Canada’s new leader made was to bring in 25,000 Syrian refugees before the end of this year. He was elected a couple of weeks ago. Last year Canada brought in about 24,000 refugees from a variety of countries. Tonight he went on national television and all he said was that he was shocked and saddened, blah, blah, blah. Nothing about condemning the terrorist acts, and **nothing about backing off on his promise to bring in 25,000 Syrians.** At this point he appears hell bent on keeping this foolhardy promise. By January 1st, they’ll have us by the balls. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2015, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scores-killed-in-explosions-and-shootout-in-paris-hostages-being-held/737499/165 "2015-11-14T05:26:08Z")
> [@Mosier](#): > > If you were able to ask the Paris attackers what their motivation was, and get an honest answer from them, what do you suppose they would say? I would say that, if they were to be completely honest, their answer would be a bit more complex than you seem to think it would be. ---
**Author:** ![Sampsiceramos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Sampsiceramos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampsiceramos)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2015, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scores-killed-in-explosions-and-shootout-in-paris-hostages-being-held/737499/166 "2015-11-14T05:34:12Z")
> [@bb49](#): > > One of the promises that Canada’s new leader made was to bring in 25,000 Syrian refugees before the end of this year. He was elected a couple of weeks ago. Last year Canada brought in about 24,000 refugees from a variety of countries. > > Tonight he went on national television and all he said was that he was shocked and saddened, blah, blah, blah. Nothing about condemning the terrorist acts, and **nothing about backing off on his promise to bring in 25,000 Syrians.** > > At this point he appears hell bent on keeping this foolhardy promise. By January 1st, they’ll have us by the balls. You have to be a special kind of deluded to think the people who have fled a war-torn Syria to escape the exact same psychopaths that attacked Paris are likely to commit the same sort of atrocities in turn. It is nothing but thinly-veiled xenophobia - the perpetrators of the Paris attack and the refugees have as much in common as Timothy McVeigh did with the average white American male. Without trying in any way to justify the Paris attacks, it’s not exactly a secret that Muslims in Europe struggle with the same sort of socioeconomic issues as African-Americans do in the US, nor is it a secret that most of them grow up in ghettos and receive little in the way of proper education. We’d have a lot fewer of them turning into radicals if we hadn’t basically treated them like shit ever since their parents arrived as unskilled labour in the 1970s. ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2015, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scores-killed-in-explosions-and-shootout-in-paris-hostages-being-held/737499/167 "2015-11-14T05:41:52Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > Well, I’m seeing, as a response to this latest outrage, “nice Christian” people advocating essentially the same kind of extremist stupidity as that of those who killed innocents in Paris. In case you’re wondering, that response is: “Let’s kill them all” or “Confine them all” or “Keep them all out”…Well, you get the idea, one would hope. > > By the way, what do you think the ideas are that are motivating them (and by _them_, I mean either the “nice Christians” or the extremist Muslims)? If you will say that Islam is their motivation, then you will be talking from extreme ignorance. Give it up _Monty_. ISIS just killed over 150 people in a deliberate sustained terror attack in Paris, one of the cultural capitals of the Western world. Why would you even begin to think that this is the time time to promote your bullshit politics? Nobody is interested because almost no one subscribes to your world-view. Your insinuations are simply insulting to those that do have real world concerns about what this attack will have on the immediate future of both the Middle East and Western Europe. ---
**Author:** ![bb49](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b38774/32.png) [@bb49](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bb49)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2015, 5:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scores-killed-in-explosions-and-shootout-in-paris-hostages-being-held/737499/168 "2015-11-14T05:44:06Z")
> [@Sampsiceramos](#): > > You have to be a special kind of deluded to think the people who have fled a war-torn Syria to escape the exact same psychopaths that attacked Paris are likely to commit the same sort of atrocities in turn. It is nothing but thinly-veiled xenophobia - the perpetrators of the Paris attack and the refugees have as much in common as Timothy McVeigh did with the average white American male. > > Without trying in any way to justify the Paris attacks, it’s not exactly a secret that Muslims in Europe struggle with the same sort of socioeconomic issues as African-Americans do in the US, nor is it a secret that most of them grow up in ghettos and receive little in the way of proper education. We’d have a lot fewer of them turning into radicals if we hadn’t basically treated them like shit ever since their parents arrived as unskilled labour in the 1970s. I hope you are right and I’m wrong, but in the meantime you should remove your rose coloured glasses. ---
**Author:** ![Claverhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/13edae/32.png) [@Claverhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Claverhouse)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2015, 5:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scores-killed-in-explosions-and-shootout-in-paris-hostages-being-held/737499/169 "2015-11-14T05:48:43Z")
[QUOTE=Sampsiceramos] Without trying in any way to justify the Paris attacks, it’s not exactly a secret that Muslims in Europe struggle with the same sort of socioeconomic issues as African-Americans do in the US, nor is it a secret that most of them grow up in ghettos and receive little in the way of proper education. We’d have a lot fewer of them turning into radicals if we hadn’t basically treated them like shit ever since their parents arrived as unskilled labour in the 1970s. [/QUOTE] Well, destroying welfare states in order to save money and foster self-reliance will no doubt work as well in soothing discontent as did the minimal conditions endured by free American blacks until the 1950s. Even the Saudis aren’t that stupid. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2015, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scores-killed-in-explosions-and-shootout-in-paris-hostages-being-held/737499/170 "2015-11-14T05:58:46Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > Give it up _Monty_. ISIS just killed over 150 people in a deliberate sustained terror attack in Paris, one of the cultural capitals of the Western world. Why would you even begin to think that this is the time time to promote your bullshit politics? Nobody is interested because almost no one subscribes to your world-view. Your insinuations are simply insulting to those that do have real world concerns about what this attack will have on the immediate future of both the Middle East and Western Europe. And what, exactly, are my “bullshit politics”? What, exactly, is my “worldview”? What, exactly, did I insinuate? ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2015, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scores-killed-in-explosions-and-shootout-in-paris-hostages-being-held/737499/171 "2015-11-14T05:59:47Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > Good in a way. But I would prefer one or two captured alive to extract information from. This is one case where I would definitely look the other way for the extraction methods. Except, of course, I’m pretty sure that you already know torture doesn’t work. ---
**Author:** ![kambuckta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/53a042/32.png) [@kambuckta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kambuckta)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2015, 6:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scores-killed-in-explosions-and-shootout-in-paris-hostages-being-held/737499/172 "2015-11-14T06:12:18Z")
Yeah **Monty** , you’re a wonderfully enigmatic poster, we all know that. So given your superior knowledge of the situation, what the fuck do YOU suggest we do? It’s all well and good to point out the problems…hey, any of us can do that! But what do you recommend we do to eliminate or diffuse the ISIS terrorist problem? Que? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2015, 6:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scores-killed-in-explosions-and-shootout-in-paris-hostages-being-held/737499/173 "2015-11-14T06:15:54Z")
Monty you ask a lot of questions and knock others’ proposals. What do you propose is a good response to this situation? ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2015, 6:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scores-killed-in-explosions-and-shootout-in-paris-hostages-being-held/737499/174 "2015-11-14T06:21:43Z")
> [@Bullitt](#): > > Monty you ask a lot of questions and knock others’ proposals. What do you propose is a good response to this situation? That’s your response? Well, first off, my response does not include nuking an entire country or area. ---
**Author:** ![kambuckta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/53a042/32.png) [@kambuckta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kambuckta)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2015, 6:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scores-killed-in-explosions-and-shootout-in-paris-hostages-being-held/737499/175 "2015-11-14T06:27:08Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > That’s your response? Well, first off, my response does not include nuking an entire country or area. Well, what DOES your response propose? FFS Monty, it’s all well and good to criticize others, but unless you can come up with something more acceptable, then you’re just pissing into the wind mate. IOW, you’re a fucken wanker Monty. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2015, 6:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scores-killed-in-explosions-and-shootout-in-paris-hostages-being-held/737499/176 "2015-11-14T06:33:10Z")
1. Treat people like they’re human beings. 2. Enact and actually enforce legislation that prevents discrimination on race/religion/national origin/ethnic origin. 3. Ensure that everyone has access to a decent education. 4. Quit treating all Muslims in the country like they’re either terrorists or potential terrorists. 5. When a crime occurs, use good police work (as opposed to torture) to determine who is responsible. 6. Reform the prison system so that those incarcerated have more than a negligible chance of reform. 7. Treat people like human beings. How’s that grab you? ---
**Author:** ![kambuckta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/53a042/32.png) [@kambuckta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kambuckta)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2015, 6:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scores-killed-in-explosions-and-shootout-in-paris-hostages-being-held/737499/177 "2015-11-14T06:45:09Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > 1. Treat people like they’re human beings. > > 2. Enact and actually enforce legislation that prevents discrimination on race/religion/national origin/ethnic origin. > > 3. Ensure that everyone has access to a decent education. > > 4. Quit treating all Muslims in the country like they’re either terrorists or potential terrorists. > > 5. When a crime occurs, use good police work (as opposed to torture) to determine who is responsible. > > 6. Reform the prison system so that those incarcerated have more than a negligible chance of reform. > > 7. Treat people like human beings. > > How’s that grab you? Oh how quaint! What about the ISIS killers? How would you deal with them? ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2015, 6:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scores-killed-in-explosions-and-shootout-in-paris-hostages-being-held/737499/178 "2015-11-14T06:45:52Z")
> [@Locrian](#): > > To kill people. > > They’re not killing for anything other than killing. With no motivation whatsoever other than some form of homicidal psychosis? Nah it cannot be their crazy ass belief system. ---
**Author:** ![Cicero](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cicero/32/3594_2.png) [@Cicero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cicero)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2015, 7:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scores-killed-in-explosions-and-shootout-in-paris-hostages-being-held/737499/179 "2015-11-14T07:09:18Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > Eagles of Death Metal, the band playing at the venue, are reportedly safe. Who gives a fuck? With 160 people killed you make such inane post. It is unbelievable that you are so insensitive. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2015, 7:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scores-killed-in-explosions-and-shootout-in-paris-hostages-being-held/737499/180 "2015-11-14T07:15:05Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > 1. Treat people like they’re human beings. > > 2. Enact and actually enforce legislation that prevents discrimination on race/religion/national origin/ethnic origin. > > 3. Ensure that everyone has access to a decent education. > > 4. Quit treating all Muslims in the country like they’re either terrorists or potential terrorists. > > 5. When a crime occurs, use good police work (as opposed to torture) to determine who is responsible. > > 6. Reform the prison system so that those incarcerated have more than a negligible chance of reform. > > 7. Treat people like human beings. > > How’s that grab you? All worthy ideas as social policy, worth very little as a way to keep the West safe. One idea is better than all of those: enact restrictive immigration policies that target countries that are hotbeds of extremism. Make people stay and fix their own countries rather than using the West as an escape valve to both escape their problems and to a smaller extent bring those problems with them. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scores-killed-in-explosions-and-shootout-in-paris-hostages-being-held/737499.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scores-killed-in-explosions-and-shootout-in-paris-hostages-being-held/737499.md?page=10)