# Scorigami-related football rules question **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Tags:** football-nfl\ **Created:** [December 17, 2023, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scorigami-related-football-rules-question/994749 "2023-12-17T23:01:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![3AxisCtrl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/3/ecd19e/32.png) [@3AxisCtrl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/3AxisCtrl)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2023, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scorigami-related-football-rules-question/994749/1 "2023-12-17T23:01:49Z")
I recently re-watched the video in which [Jon Bois explains his Scorigami concept](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9l5C8cGMueY). One feature of this is his explanation of how a game could have a final score of 6 - 1. It requires a safety against the scoring team on the extra-point play, which to him - and I suspect most everyone - seems extraordinarily unlikely. But how 'bout the following as a semi-plausible scenario? No points until Team A scores a touchdown with about 90 seconds to go in the 4th quarter. They don’t want to give the ball to Team B with that much time on the clock. So their ‘extra point attempt’ consists of giving the ball to their fastest player with instructions to run down the field, waste time, avoid all tackles, and finish by stepping out the back of the endzone, thus running all time off the clock. Despite no time remaining, Team A is required to kick the ball to Team B. But the kicker takes care to have the kick go out of bounds, and thus the game ends 6 - 1. ---
**Author:** ![Railer13](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/railer13/32/9742_2.png) [@Railer13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Railer13)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2023, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scorigami-related-football-rules-question/994749/2 "2023-12-17T23:07:13Z")
> [@3AxisCtrl](#): > > So their ‘extra point attempt’ consists of giving the ball to their fastest player with instructions to run down the field, waste time, avoid all tackles, and finish by stepping out the back of the endzone, thus running all time off the clock. Great plan, except the clock doesn’t run on an extra-point attempt. And, if a team scores on the last play of the game (no time remaining), there is no ensuing kickoff. ---
**Author:** ![3AxisCtrl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/3/ecd19e/32.png) [@3AxisCtrl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/3AxisCtrl)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2023, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scorigami-related-football-rules-question/994749/3 "2023-12-17T23:27:41Z")
> [@Railer13](#): > > Great plan, except the clock doesn’t run on an extra-point attempt. Hmm. That does rather mess with my idea. > [@](#): > > And, if a team scores on the last play of the game (no time remaining), there is no ensuing kickoff. But if the score is a safety, isn’t the ensuing free kick required? (Though I think the team that would receive it can say they don’t wish to.) ---
**Author:** ![Railer13](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/railer13/32/9742_2.png) [@Railer13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Railer13)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2023, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scorigami-related-football-rules-question/994749/4 "2023-12-17T23:29:12Z")
> [@3AxisCtrl](#): > > But if the score is a safety, isn’t the ensuing free kick required? No. I’ve seen games end on a safety (intentional, actually), and the game is over at that point. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2023, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scorigami-related-football-rules-question/994749/5 "2023-12-17T23:32:29Z")
And a kickoff going out bounds might be a penalty that allows the recieving team to run a final play. ---
**Author:** ![Railer13](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/railer13/32/9742_2.png) [@Railer13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Railer13)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2023, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scorigami-related-football-rules-question/994749/6 "2023-12-17T23:43:29Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > And a kickoff going out bounds might be a penalty that allows the receiving team to run a final play Well, yes. Because, as I’ve explained, there MUST be time on the clock after a score for the game to continue. The clock does not start on a kickoff until the ball is fielded by the receiving team. If a kickoff goes out of bounds, the clock doesn’t run, it’s a penalty, the ball is spotted at the 40 yard line, and the receiving team will run at least one play. ---
**Author:** ![That\_Don\_Guy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/that_don_guy/32/538_2.png) [@That\_Don\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/That_Don_Guy)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2023, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scorigami-related-football-rules-question/994749/7 "2023-12-18T02:51:16Z")
> [@Railer13](#): > > > [@3AxisCtrl](#): > > > > But if the score is a safety, isn’t the ensuing free kick required? > > No. I’ve seen games end on a safety (intentional, actually), and the game is over at that point. Didn’t a Super Bowl once end that way? Also, last week’s Army-Navy game ended on an intentional safety. ---
**Author:** ![Railer13](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/railer13/32/9742_2.png) [@Railer13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Railer13)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2023, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scorigami-related-football-rules-question/994749/8 "2023-12-18T02:56:52Z")
> [@That\_Don\_Guy](#): > > Didn’t a Super Bowl once end that way? Almost. [Records for safeties in football - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Records_for_safeties_in_football#:~:text=Super%20Bowl%20XX,-In%20the%20fourth&text=The%20Bears%20dominated%20the%20game,game%20made%20by%20either%20team). > In the fourth quarter of Super Bowl XLVII between the Baltimore Ravens and the San Francisco 49ers, with the Ravens ahead 34–29 and having the ball with 12 seconds remaining, punter Sam Koch ran the clock for eight seconds in the end zone before running out of bounds for a 49ers safety. Ravens won the game 34-31. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2023, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scorigami-related-football-rules-question/994749/9 "2023-12-18T03:14:35Z")
> [@3AxisCtrl](#): > > But if the score is a safety, isn’t the ensuing free kick required? No, because that’s not a ‘natural’ safety, it’s a PAT safety. The ensuing kickoff would be because of the touchdown, not because of anything that happened during the PAT. ---
**Author:** ![Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a587f6/32.png) [@Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freddy_the_Pig)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2023, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scorigami-related-football-rules-question/994749/10 "2023-12-18T18:38:11Z")
To score one point in a football game, you have to score a safety on your opponent’s conversion attempt. It’s that simple. That sounds impossible at first, since conversions begin 85 (NFL kick), 97 (all college conversions), or 98 (NFL run/pass) yards from the offensive end zone. (Unless relocated by a penalty.) But remember that both NFL and college rules allow blocked kicks or turnovers on conversions to be returned. The ball can end up at the other end of the field, where another fumble could lead to scenarios where the original defending team scores a safety. This has never happened. There have been at least three one-point safeties in college football, but all were scored by the original offense (that is, by the team attempting the conversion.) There has never been a one-point safety in the NFL. There has never been a one-point safety _by the defense_ in either pro or college football. But it isn’t logically impossible. ---
**Author:** ![Railer13](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/railer13/32/9742_2.png) [@Railer13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Railer13)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2023, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scorigami-related-football-rules-question/994749/11 "2023-12-18T19:08:29Z")
> [@Freddy\_the\_Pig](#): > > There have been at least three one-point safeties in college football Here are two of them, both fairly recently. > **[What Is a 1 Point Safety In Football? - vIQtory Sports](https://www.viqtorysports.com/1-point-safety/)** > > A 1 point safety is extremely rare, but it can happen. What is a 1 point safety in football? ---
**Author:** ![LoneRhino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lonerhino/32/1311_2.png) [@LoneRhino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LoneRhino)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2023, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scorigami-related-football-rules-question/994749/12 "2023-12-18T19:40:09Z")
If I’m not mistaken, on a 2 point conversion try if the defense recovers the ball and returns it to the end one, they get 2 points. What happens on a blocked PAT that gets picked p and returned to the end zone? ---
**Author:** ![Railer13](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/railer13/32/9742_2.png) [@Railer13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Railer13)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2023, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scorigami-related-football-rules-question/994749/13 "2023-12-18T19:53:07Z")
> [@LoneRhino](#): > > What happens on a blocked PAT that gets picked p and returned to the end zone? Also two points. Prior to 2015, a blocked PAT in the NFL could not be returned for a score. That rule was changed, and the Saints were the first team to score on a blocked PAT. > **[Saints Block PAT, Become 1st NFL Team to Score Defensive 2-Point Return](https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2596424-saints-block-pat-become-1st-nfl-team-to-score-defensive-2-point-conversion)** > > The New Orleans Saints made history against the Carolina Panthers in Week 13, becoming the first team to block an extra point and return it all the way for two points... ---
**Author:** ![That\_Don\_Guy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/that_don_guy/32/538_2.png) [@That\_Don\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/That_Don_Guy)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2023, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scorigami-related-football-rules-question/994749/14 "2023-12-19T00:54:45Z")
> [@Freddy\_the\_Pig](#): > > There have been at least three one-point safeties in college football, but all were scored by the original offense (that is, by the team attempting the conversion.) There has never been a one-point safety in the NFL. There has never been a one-point safety _by the defense_ in either pro or college football. But it isn’t logically impossible. There was a rule change in high school football (well, except for Texas, which for the most part uses college rules) a few years ago that makes it impossible for the defense to score a one-point safety.