# Scotland and the British Empire **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 18, 2017, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotland-and-the-british-empire/799260 "2017-10-18T23:43:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2017, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotland-and-the-british-empire/799260/41 "2017-10-21T17:39:56Z")
> [@nightshadea](#): > > yeah he would of said English … it wasn’t until almost the 1900s that Scotland felt it shared an identity with the rest of the uk [OT] HAVE! H-A-V-E. AITCH AY VEE EEE. Sorry, but that’s twice today that I’ve seen someone use that particular abomination. This is the Dope, we should know better. [/OT] ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2017, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotland-and-the-british-empire/799260/42 "2017-10-21T18:04:39Z")
> [@John\_DiFool](#): > > [OT] > > HAVE! H-A-V-E. AITCH AY VEE EEE. > > Sorry, but that’s twice today that I’ve seen someone use that particular abomination. This is the Dope, we should know better. > > [/OT] Run that by again? ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2017, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotland-and-the-british-empire/799260/43 "2017-10-21T18:14:04Z")
You could of guessed his beef by the context. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2017, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotland-and-the-british-empire/799260/44 "2017-10-21T18:23:57Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > You could of guessed his beef by the context. I should have believed so, but I don’t have a clue. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2017, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotland-and-the-british-empire/799260/45 "2017-10-21T18:38:21Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > I should have believed so, but I don’t have a clue. He’s complaining about the use of “would of” instead of “would’ve.” ---
**Author:** ![GreenWyvern](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/greenwyvern/32/2834_2.png) [@GreenWyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenWyvern)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2017, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotland-and-the-british-empire/799260/46 "2017-10-21T19:05:08Z")
> [@John\_DiFool](#): > > [OT] > > HAVE! H-A-V-E. AITCH AY VEE EEE. > > Sorry, but that’s twice today that I’ve seen someone use that particular abomination. This is the Dope, we should know better. > > [/OT] Yes, it’s heartrendering. People commit these errors on mass. But instead of getting into a high dungeon, I tend to get bored of it. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2017, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotland-and-the-british-empire/799260/47 "2017-10-21T20:22:21Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > He’s complaining about the use of “would of” instead of “would’ve.” Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2017, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotland-and-the-british-empire/799260/48 "2017-10-21T21:21:57Z")
"We’re all Englishmen here - " (Interjection: “Not English, British!”) "Were all British here - " (Interjection: “Not British, Scots!”) And I’m always tickled by the fact that the Ships Engineer on Star Trek was a Scot. Even in the 60’s that was playing to national stereotypes ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2017, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotland-and-the-british-empire/799260/49 "2017-10-21T22:41:25Z")
> [@Melbourne](#): > > "We’re all Englishmen here - " > (Interjection: “Not English, British!”) > "Were all British here - " > (Interjection: “Not British, Scots!”) > > And I’m always tickled by the fact that the Ships Engineer on Star Trek was a Scot. Even in the 60’s that was playing to national stereotypes Even in the '60s? I should have thought that the stereotype was much stronger in the 1960s than it is now. ---
**Author:** ![filmstar-en](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/50afbb/32.png) [@filmstar-en](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmstar-en)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2017, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotland-and-the-british-empire/799260/50 "2017-10-23T14:54:45Z")
This guy takes a reasonable stab at explaining the political and geographical terms used to describe the British Isles and the other bits in a short animated video. It is complicated. He did another on the circumstances by which Scotland joined with England. As you might expect, money had a lot to do with it. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/p3HnMLq8m9U/maxresdefault.jpg "How Scotland Joined Great Britain") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3HnMLq8m9U) ---
**Author:** ![Stanislaus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stanislaus/32/3391_2.png) [@Stanislaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stanislaus)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2017, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotland-and-the-british-empire/799260/51 "2017-10-23T15:15:46Z")
> [@GreenWyvern](#): > > The two countries were still very closely aligned from that time. The border was open between them, and people and goods moved freely across it for a century before Union. Well, up to a point. There were tariffs on most major Scottish trade goods (linen, coal, salt, cattle)\* with the Scots making [several failed attempts to create a union of trade in the latter half of the seventeenth century](https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=JT28AAAAIAAJ&pg=PA8&lpg=PA8&dq=scotland+england+seventeenth+century+tariff+barriers&source=bl&ots=WMCuEdcN_d&sig=OXK5jWVJegOnhvFxpeRRT6mwgBE&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjOuIacgIfXAhUCSRoKHdBpDr0Q6AEIKzAB#v=onepage&q=scotland%20england%20seventeenth%20century%20tariff%20barriers&f=false). And of course, the prospect of the removal of tariff barriers with England (and England’s colonies) was a factor in persuading the Scottish parliament to accept the Act of Union. \*Tariff barriers disappeared under Cromwell’s Commonwealth, but were reinstated following the Restoration. ---
**Author:** ![Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a8b319/32.png) [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuzzy_wuzzy)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2017, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotland-and-the-british-empire/799260/52 "2017-10-23T18:30:21Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > I watched the western TV program _Riverboat_. > The guys on the riverboat fire a cannon at Indians attacking a fort. > Grapeshot knocks over a tree and one Indian off his horse. > The Captain says to a Scotsman. “Good aim!” > The Scotsman replies, “That’s one thing the British are good at, teaching a man to aim a cannon. They’re not good for anything else.” > > The Act of Union was 1707, so the Scotsman is British in 1846, is he not? He would have said, “the English are good at”, would he not? A Scotsman can be Scottish one minute and the next minute British. If a Scotsman is snearing at British values then he’s probably more likely to use “they’re” than “we’re”. Whether the writers of this show knew this I don’t know, but it’s not entirely out of the question that a Scotsman would make such a distinction. ---
**Author:** ![hibernicus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hibernicus/32/2802_2.png) [@hibernicus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hibernicus)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2017, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotland-and-the-british-empire/799260/53 "2017-10-23T19:28:57Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > The Act of Union was 1707, so the Scotsman is British in 1846, is he not? He would have said, “the English are good at”, would he not? I haven’t seen the show, so I don’t know. But is it clearly shown that this character is Scottish and not Irish? Because if the character were Irish, this piece of dialogue would make perfect sense. ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2017, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotland-and-the-british-empire/799260/54 "2017-10-24T00:38:56Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Even in the '60s? I should have thought that the stereotype was much stronger in the 1960s than it is now. Yes,it references the 1960’s and it was still a steriotype of a ships engineer in the 1960s – although perhaps few American ships would have ever had Scottish engineers. ---
**Author:** ![Evan\_Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b487fb/32.png) [@Evan\_Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evan_Drake)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2017, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotland-and-the-british-empire/799260/55 "2017-10-24T00:46:16Z")
I should imagine they did, from the birth of Steam Scots engineers were regarded highly — in part no doubt due to their traditionally excellent education system — and they certainly got around, so if one needed an engineer and a Scot was ready to hand, it would be silly not to hire him. ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2017, 10:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotland-and-the-british-empire/799260/56 "2017-10-24T10:10:36Z")
> [@John\_DiFool](#): > > [OT] > > HAVE! H-A-V-E. AITCH AY VEE EEE. > > Sorry, but that’s twice today that I’ve seen someone use that particular abomination. This is the Dope, we should know better. > > [/OT] Bravo. I hate seeing that senseless usage here, it really does tarnish the board by its presence. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotland-and-the-british-empire/799260.md?page=2)