# Scotland's referendum on Independence 18 Sept 2014 **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [January 21, 2014, 12:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotlands-referendum-on-independence-18-sept-2014/679356 "2014-01-21T12:11:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 28
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2014, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotlands-referendum-on-independence-18-sept-2014/679356/541 "2014-08-15T03:21:28Z")
> [@Pjen](#): > > Yes. But it is as meaningless as Brits complaining about who is elected US President. Huh. Have they even done that since 2004? šŸ˜‰ ---
**Author:** ![Bozuit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/edb3f5/32.png) [@Bozuit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bozuit)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2014, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotlands-referendum-on-independence-18-sept-2014/679356/542 "2014-08-15T17:29:45Z")
> [@Pjen](#): > > Yes. But it is as meaningless as Brits complaining about who is elected US President. Not if you live in Britain itā€™s not. ---
**Author:** ![Ryan\_Liam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ryan_liam/32/3965_2.png) [@Ryan\_Liam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryan_Liam)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2014, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotlands-referendum-on-independence-18-sept-2014/679356/543 "2014-08-25T19:13:02Z")
If Scotland goes independent, Britain as a political entity should be wound up and a different kind of Union put in place. It would be a good way in which to bury our past and create something new out of the ashes of the old (Like an English Republic) But Iā€™m still very Unionist, however this is what I would be interested in developing if the worst case scenario came about. ---
**Author:** ![Malden\_Capell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malden_capell/32/5274_2.png) [@Malden\_Capell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malden_Capell)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2014, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotlands-referendum-on-independence-18-sept-2014/679356/544 "2014-08-25T20:43:49Z")
> [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > If Scotland goes independent, Britain as a political entity should be wound up and a different kind of Union put in place. > > It would be a good way in which to bury our past and create something new out of the ashes of the old (Like an English Republic) > > But Iā€™m still very Unionist, however this is what I would be interested in developing if the worst case scenario came about. Thereā€™s zero chance that the end of the British Union would mean the end of the monarchy. Itā€™s highly likely that Scotland will retain the Queen as its Head of State. ---
**Author:** ![Ryan\_Liam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ryan_liam/32/3965_2.png) [@Ryan\_Liam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryan_Liam)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2014, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotlands-referendum-on-independence-18-sept-2014/679356/545 "2014-08-25T21:01:35Z")
> [@Malden\_Capell](#): > > Thereā€™s zero chance that the end of the British Union would mean the end of the monarchy. Itā€™s highly likely that Scotland will retain the Queen as its Head of State. Iā€™m not stating that as something that will happen, but as a desire. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2014, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotlands-referendum-on-independence-18-sept-2014/679356/546 "2014-08-25T21:13:51Z")
> [@Pjen](#): > > We shall see, but neither side can realistically predict the future. I part company with some of the previous rejoinders, but I still disagree. Can you name _any_ democracy that has persisted for more than 10 years without a left/right split, at least within the past 100 years? A reinvigorated right wing is inevitable. Furthermore, Scottish lefties have Scottish nationalism on their side now. Take that away, and re-alignment should also be expected. These observations are almost objective facts (though admittedly not quite). > [@Pjen](#): > > I am probably older than you and can remember the MacMillan, Home and Heath Governments when the Tories were considerably to the left of the current Labour Party. Yes. While I argue that a right of center insurgence is inevitable the precise form that it will take is more difficult to discern. Conceivably it could be benign (though it is unlikely to be seen that way by the opposition). After all, Thatcherā€™s Britain was well to the left of Carterā€™s America or even Obamaā€™s America. AFAIK, the only Tea Partyish policy of hers that Iā€™m aware of was the poll tax. Thatā€™s it. Again though, if Scotland was the communal cooperative that Pjen seems to argue, _they would have voted themselves substantially higher taxes already_. I say that if you want to build progressive institutions, then build progressive institutions. Another military, another currency and another set of postage stamps donā€™t qualify. Substantively, almost all progressive institutions can be constructed under a Devo framework - you donā€™t even need Devo max. So increment taxes (any taxes) by a percentage point and devote the proceeds to Scottish Awesome. No true Scotsman could oppose such a plan. [sup]1[/sup] [sup]1[/sup] šŸ˜‰ ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2014, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotlands-referendum-on-independence-18-sept-2014/679356/547 "2014-08-25T21:24:57Z")
I rated tonightā€™s debate as a win for Salmond. ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2014, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotlands-referendum-on-independence-18-sept-2014/679356/548 "2014-08-25T22:42:10Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > After all, Thatcherā€™s Britain was well to the left of Carterā€™s America or even Obamaā€™s America. AFAIK, the only Tea Partyish policy of hers that Iā€™m aware of was the poll tax. Thatā€™s it. How about breaking the power of the trades unions? Incidentally, do you seriously think Obama is to the left of Carter? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2014, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotlands-referendum-on-independence-18-sept-2014/679356/549 "2014-08-25T23:54:05Z")
> [@njtt](#): > > How about breaking the power of the trades unions? > > Incidentally, do you seriously think Obama is to the left of Carter? :dubious: Yeah, I was a bit puzzled by that one too. Iā€™m assuming that heā€™s using ACA as the sole measure of leftness. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2014, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotlands-referendum-on-independence-18-sept-2014/679356/550 "2014-08-26T00:47:03Z")
> [@njtt](#): > > How about breaking the power of the trades unions? > > Incidentally, do you seriously think Obama is to the left of Carter? :dubious: Yes, insofar as the Presidency is concerned: Obama secured national health insurance, financial reform and a stimulus package that prevented another Great Depression. All this in the face of the greatest obstruction by the opposition party in US history. In contrast, Carter deregulated the airlines and trucking industry and appointed the Fed chair with the greatest anti-inflation record in US history. Zalwake: Yes, the ACA alone is sufficient to establish Obamaā€™s cred. As for trade unions, they were far stronger under Thatcher than they were under Carter. The trick is that you are looking at changes in ideology, whereas Iā€™m comparing levels. Both are valid comparisons, but insofar as policy is concerned I think levels are the proper metric. ---
**Author:** ![Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a8b319/32.png) [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuzzy_wuzzy)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2014, 11:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotlands-referendum-on-independence-18-sept-2014/679356/551 "2014-08-26T11:45:52Z")
One thing I have noticed on my social media account(Facebook) is the dominance of Yes supporters. They really do shout their views from the rooftops. Itā€™s no exagerration to say Yes posts outnumber No posts by about 10 - 1 on my update feed. I have no idea the effect this will have on the momentum of the campaigns, but social media seems to be benefitting the Yes campaign more than the No campaign. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2014, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotlands-referendum-on-independence-18-sept-2014/679356/552 "2014-08-26T15:17:29Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > I rated tonightā€™s debate as a win for Salmond. It was shown in the US too, on CSPAN, the government-wonks channel. I have to say Salmond appeared to be much more effective at the emotion-rousing, handwaving stuff (as well as the interrupting and overtalking, something we have much less tolerance for here). Darling had most of the facts and logic going for him, though, ISTM. No, Salmond did not have an answer for the currency question, and by interrupting and overtalking was able to avoid the question of how Scotland would control its own finances by using the pound, with or without a currency union, or the Euro. How he gets credit for answering the question mystifies me. I had the same response to the questions about oil revenues (and their eventual disappearance) and the economic losses that would come with removal of UK defense installations - just more handwaving and appeals to national pride. I was also disappointed, as a good-government democrat, to hear him constantly conflate Westminster in general with Tory Party policies - would Yes even have a chance with a Labour government in power there? Salmond might as well have painted his face blue for the occasion. Yes, none of my business, but I do enjoy campaigning, anywhere, as a spectator sport. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2014, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotlands-referendum-on-independence-18-sept-2014/679356/553 "2014-08-31T01:00:31Z")
Macca, Judi, Mick and other prominent non-Scots urge a ā€œnoā€ vote: [http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/30/world/europe/uk-scotland-independence-mccartney/index.html?hpt=hp\_t2](http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/30/world/europe/uk-scotland-independence-mccartney/index.html?hpt=hp_t2) ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2014, 9:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotlands-referendum-on-independence-18-sept-2014/679356/554 "2014-08-31T09:21:39Z")
That article inspires a question on voter eligibility. It states that Scots living outside Scotland cannot vote. Am I correct in assuming that any UK citizen living in Scotland can vote in the referendum? ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2014, 10:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotlands-referendum-on-independence-18-sept-2014/679356/555 "2014-08-31T10:15:11Z")
Full details of voter eligibility are [here](http://www.yesscotland.net/answers/who-can-vote-referendum-scottish-independence). You must be registered. > [@](#): > > The following groups of people can register to vote in the referendum: > British citizens resident in Scotland. > Qualifying Commonwealth citizens resident in Scotland. This means Commonwealth citizens who either have leave to remain in the UK or do not require such leave, and are resident in Scotland. > Citizens of the Republic of Ireland and other EU countries resident in Scotland. > Members of the House of Lords resident in Scotland. > Service/Crown personnel serving in the UK or overseas in the Armed Forces or with Her Majestyā€™s Government who are registered to vote in Scotland. ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2014, 11:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotlands-referendum-on-independence-18-sept-2014/679356/556 "2014-08-31T11:18:00Z")
> [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](#): > > One thing I have noticed on my social media account(Facebook) is the dominance of Yes supporters. They really do shout their views from the rooftops. Itā€™s no exagerration to say Yes posts outnumber No posts by about 10 - 1 on my update feed. I have no idea the effect this will have on the momentum of the campaigns, but social media seems to be benefitting the Yes campaign more than the No campaign. It is more ā€˜comfortableā€™ to be an out YES supporter than a NO. This might normally suggest a hidden NO vote, but there is a feeling that there is a community on which being a YES voter needs to be kept quiet - Central Belt Labour voters, especially women. It is suggested it was this constituency that turned a double digit Labour lead in 2011 into an SNP victory- old tribalism die hard. ---
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2014, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotlands-referendum-on-independence-18-sept-2014/679356/557 "2014-08-31T16:31:31Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > That article inspires a question on voter eligibility. It states that Scots living outside Scotland cannot vote. Am I correct in assuming that any UK citizen living in Scotland can vote in the referendum? My Mother is more than a little annoyed that she doesnā€™t get a say despite her going to be automatically assumed to be a Scottish Citizen. [http://www.yesscotland.net/answers/who-will-be-eligible-scottish-citizenship-independence-and-future](http://www.yesscotland.net/answers/who-will-be-eligible-scottish-citizenship-independence-and-future) > [@](#): > > The current Scottish Government has set out detailed plans for citizenship on independence. British citizens habitually resident in Scotland on independence will be considered Scottish citizens. This will include British citizens who hold dual citizenship with another country. Scottish born British citizens currently living outside of Scotland will also be considered Scottish citizens. I can kind of see her point. The cynic in me thinks that the only reason is because Scotland-born British Citizens living outside of Scotland would be more likely to vote against independence. ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2014, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotlands-referendum-on-independence-18-sept-2014/679356/558 "2014-08-31T16:42:01Z")
> [@amanset](#): > > My Mother is more than a little annoyed that she doesnā€™t get a say despite her going to be automatically assumed to be a Scottish Citizen. > > [http://www.yesscotland.net/answers/who-will-be-eligible-scottish-citizenship-independence-and-future](http://www.yesscotland.net/answers/who-will-be-eligible-scottish-citizenship-independence-and-future) > > I can kind of see her point. The cynic in me thinks that the only reason is because Scotland-born British Citizens living outside of Scotland would be more likely to vote against independence. Thereā€™s a 15-year rule for UK expats voting in UK General Elections, I do wonder why something similar wasnā€™t attempted for expat Scots. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2014, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotlands-referendum-on-independence-18-sept-2014/679356/559 "2014-08-31T17:05:28Z")
The Welsh are watching the vote with some interest, too: [As Scots Weigh Independence, Wales Takes Note - The New York Times](http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/31/world/europe/as-scots-weigh-independence-wales-takes-note.html?emc=eta1&_r=0) ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2014, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotlands-referendum-on-independence-18-sept-2014/679356/560 "2014-08-31T17:12:02Z")
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