# Scotland's referendum on Independence 18 Sept 2014 **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [January 21, 2014, 12:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotlands-referendum-on-independence-18-sept-2014/679356 "2014-01-21T12:11:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 35
**Author:** ![Malden\_Capell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malden_capell/32/5274_2.png) [@Malden\_Capell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malden_Capell)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2014, 10:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotlands-referendum-on-independence-18-sept-2014/679356/681 "2014-09-15T10:31:03Z")
> [@buddy431](#): > > So the queen finally has [made a statement](http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-29200359) about independence, saying “Well, I hope people will think very carefully about the future” > > I think many people have taken this as a support for a “No” vote, but I think more than anything that’s people projecting what they think her private beliefs are onto her public speech. If someone who was known or suspected to support independence made that statement, it would be interpreted as a call for a “yes” vote. At least to me it seemed pretty neutral, but maybe other people can enlighten me if that’s some sort of code happening during the debate. > > The palace was quick to offer the assurance that the queen was not making a political statement. I took it as a neutral comment too. After all, it’s sensible on all sides to ‘think carefully’ on what they are going to decide. It’s a message saying ‘ok, if you want independence, then best of luck, but just make sure it’s a solemn decision and not a flippant one to piss off the Tories’ ---
**Author:** ![Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cc9497/32.png) [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt.Ridley_s_Shooting_Party)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2014, 10:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotlands-referendum-on-independence-18-sept-2014/679356/682 "2014-09-15T10:45:07Z")
[MEPs are apparently unhappy](http://www.euractiv.com/sections/uk-europe/meps-could-block-scotlands-eu-membership-if-it-pushes-euro-opt-out-308434) with the idea of Scotland obtaining opt-outs on Schengen, the Euro, and the rebate, in any Scottish entry into the EU. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2014, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotlands-referendum-on-independence-18-sept-2014/679356/683 "2014-09-15T15:32:13Z")
[John Oliver puts it in perspective nicely.](http://www.thewire.com/entertainment/2014/09/john-oliver-breaks-down-the-incredibly-polite-battle-for-scottish-independence/380186/)😃 Hint: He thinks Cameron has been a dick but independence is still a bad idea. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2014, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotlands-referendum-on-independence-18-sept-2014/679356/684 "2014-09-15T15:51:14Z")
I’m getting more concerned that this may actually happen. It’s going to drastically change the dynamics of NATO. Britain will be half the power it is today. The US counts heavily on Britain as a partner in the terror war and trying to keep Russia from rebuilding the Soviet Empire. They are also a valuable trading partner. This reminds me of the North/South split in the US. Which of course was not allowed and resulted in Civil War. Lincoln got it right when he stated a house divided against itself can Not stand. Splitting any country in half will always leave two much weaker powers. ---
**Author:** ![Hector\_St\_Clare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5ac83/32.png) [@Hector\_St\_Clare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hector_St_Clare)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2014, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotlands-referendum-on-independence-18-sept-2014/679356/685 "2014-09-15T15:59:52Z")
I’m in favour of Scottish independence, for what it’s worth. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2014, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotlands-referendum-on-independence-18-sept-2014/679356/686 "2014-09-15T16:24:05Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > I’m getting more concerned that this may actually happen. It’s going to drastically change the dynamics of NATO. Britain will be half the power it is today. The US counts heavily on Britain as a partner in the terror war and trying to keep Russia from rebuilding the Soviet Empire. … Really? Are they splitting up the British Army and Navy and the RAF, and Scotland gets to keep half? ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2014, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotlands-referendum-on-independence-18-sept-2014/679356/687 "2014-09-15T16:38:09Z")
What they ask for and what they get are two different things. 😉 Right now lets just say their list is over optimistic. > **[Independent Scotland Would Create Nuclear-Sub Problem](https://www.ibtimes.com/how-does-british-military-split-independent-scotland-1682076)** > > If Scotland votes for independence, it wants a chunk of the British armed forces -- and to kick out nuclear subs, which have nowhere else to go. > [@](#): > > The SNP wants to take two frigates, a command platform, four mine-countermeasure vessels, two offshore patrol vessels, and six smaller patrol vessels and auxiliary support ships. It also wants as many as 12 Typhoon fighter jets and six Hercules C-130Js, and the creation of an Army brigade made up of British inventory. The independence camp’s defense plan would also see the British submarine base at Faslane become joint headquarters for the newly formed Scottish armed forces. ---
**Author:** ![SanVito](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sanvito/32/2805_2.png) [@SanVito](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanVito)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2014, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotlands-referendum-on-independence-18-sept-2014/679356/688 "2014-09-15T19:59:47Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > I’m getting more concerned that this may actually happen. It’s going to drastically change the dynamics of NATO. Britain will be half the power it is today. The US counts heavily on Britain as a partner in the terror war and trying to keep Russia from rebuilding the Soviet Empire. They are also a valuable trading partner. > > This reminds me of the North/South split in the US. Which of course was not allowed and resulted in Civil War. Lincoln got it right when he stated a house divided against itself can Not stand. Splitting any country in half will always leave two much weaker powers. ‘Half’ is a gross exaggeration. The population of the UK is c.64 million. Scotland accounts for c. 5.3 million. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2014, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotlands-referendum-on-independence-18-sept-2014/679356/689 "2014-09-15T20:40:05Z")
That’s interesting. On the map the two are almost identical in size. I didn’t even think to check population.That’s good news to hear that most of the population is in Britain. Thanks ---
**Author:** ![Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a8b319/32.png) [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuzzy_wuzzy)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2014, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotlands-referendum-on-independence-18-sept-2014/679356/690 "2014-09-15T20:58:15Z")
> [@SanVito](#): > > ‘Half’ is a gross exaggeration. The population of the UK is c.64 million. Scotland accounts for c. 5.3 million. I hadn’t really thought about things such as the Navy. Would Scotland get a larger share of Naval vessels than its population ratio would suggest? I would expect not, but this does leave the North Atlantic rather short of an operational Navy from the British Isles. Those damn Icelanders will be stealing our fish stocks within a year. ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2014, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotlands-referendum-on-independence-18-sept-2014/679356/691 "2014-09-15T20:58:31Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > That’s interesting. On the map the two are almost identical in size. I didn’t even think to check population.That’s good news to hear that most of the population is in Britain. Thanks Scotland _is_ in Britain. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2014, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotlands-referendum-on-independence-18-sept-2014/679356/692 "2014-09-15T21:10:31Z")
Would any True Scotsman vote “no”? If they vote “yes”, will England get off scot-free? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2014, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotlands-referendum-on-independence-18-sept-2014/679356/693 "2014-09-16T00:28:39Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > [John Oliver puts it in perspective nicely.](http://www.thewire.com/entertainment/2014/09/john-oliver-breaks-down-the-incredibly-polite-battle-for-scottish-independence/380186/)😃 > > Hint: He thinks Cameron has been a dick but independence is still a bad idea. Love this - thanks! ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2014, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotlands-referendum-on-independence-18-sept-2014/679356/694 "2014-09-16T01:02:21Z")
Scotland will be a pro-business client state of the rump-UK just as Ireland is. In the broader geopolitical sense it won’t matter a whit of a thistle whether they vote Yes or No. And if Scottish leaders have notions above their station they’ll be dealt with like Salvador Allende and others before and since. ---
**Author:** ![SanVito](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sanvito/32/2805_2.png) [@SanVito](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanVito)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2014, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotlands-referendum-on-independence-18-sept-2014/679356/695 "2014-09-16T12:16:14Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > That’s interesting. On the map the two are almost identical in size. I didn’t even think to check population.That’s good news to hear that most of the population is in Britain. Thanks Scotland certainly pumps above its weight in noise:size. Consider how much more people overseas know about Scotland than they do Wales, which is 3 million people, ie just over half the population of Scotland. The population of England alone is 53 million, so ten times that of Scotland. (and yes, Scotland is in Britain. At the moment anyway). ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2014, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotlands-referendum-on-independence-18-sept-2014/679356/696 "2014-09-16T14:33:37Z")
Scottish politicians also seem to be disproportionately influential in Whitehall. Does the Labor party fear losing some if its most industrious politicians and front-line operatives? Seems to me, even give the small numbers of Scots in proportion to the population, that losing Scotland will cripple the British left. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2014, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotlands-referendum-on-independence-18-sept-2014/679356/697 "2014-09-16T14:53:24Z")
Yes, Scotland has long been a Labour stronghold, so losing all of its MPs there would be very hard. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2014, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotlands-referendum-on-independence-18-sept-2014/679356/698 "2014-09-16T16:28:02Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Scottish politicians also seem to be disproportionately influential in Whitehall. Does the Labor party fear losing some if its most industrious politicians and front-line operatives? > > Seems to me, even give the small numbers of Scots in proportion to the population, that losing Scotland will cripple the British left. It’s an ill wind that blows nobody good. 😛 [Here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8qOtIK5v_CU) is the take on Scotland from a guy I really like, Scott Manley. FWIW. (YouTube video where Scott basically says that he has no opinion on the question since he’s now an American, but he gives some history of Scotland that’s interesting) ---
**Author:** ![BigAppleBucky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigapplebucky/32/178_2.png) [@BigAppleBucky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigAppleBucky)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2014, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotlands-referendum-on-independence-18-sept-2014/679356/699 "2014-09-16T17:11:05Z")
SIAP in the first 14 pages of this thread. I just wonder if in the 1930’s or 40’s the English Premier League had changed its name to the United Kingdom Premier League and invited Rangers and Celtic to join and there was a UK world cup team instead of England and Scotland, if this referendum would even be held. Sometimes sports can be made really important. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2014, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotlands-referendum-on-independence-18-sept-2014/679356/700 "2014-09-16T17:17:10Z")
They still would - probably - not have gone to war over it, [like Honduras and El Salvador](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Football_War). Would they? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotlands-referendum-on-independence-18-sept-2014/679356.md?page=34) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotlands-referendum-on-independence-18-sept-2014/679356.md?page=36)