# Scotland's referendum on Independence 18 Sept 2014 **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [January 21, 2014, 12:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotlands-referendum-on-independence-18-sept-2014/679356 "2014-01-21T12:11:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 37
**Author:** ![PaulParkhead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@PaulParkhead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PaulParkhead)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2014, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotlands-referendum-on-independence-18-sept-2014/679356/721 "2014-09-17T14:38:18Z")
> [@BigAppleBucky](#): > > If I’ve been reading this thread correctly, wouldn’t the Tory majority greatly increase upon the separation? Kind of, yes. Scotland has been a Labour stronghold since about the 1950s or so. Without the Scottish MPs they would find it harder, though not impossible, to win elections. However, that’s as things stand now. What would happen to Tory popularity in the rUK after a hypothetical Scottish vote for independence is, of course, unknown. ---
**Author:** ![Busy\_Scissors](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d78d45/32.png) [@Busy\_Scissors](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Busy_Scissors)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2014, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotlands-referendum-on-independence-18-sept-2014/679356/722 "2014-09-17T15:01:35Z")
> [@BigAppleBucky](#): > > If I’ve been reading this thread correctly, wouldn’t the Tory majority greatly increase upon the separation? Unionism is in the Tory party’s DNA, so they would be in the interesting position of greatly increasing their parliamentary majority, at least in the short term, at the expense of one of their founding principles. Cameron is not really a Tory, though (and hated for this by the fossils on his backbenches), or a man unduly troubled by principles. So I have no doubt he’d be quite prepared to take things in his stride - (picture David Cameron weighing up power versus principles, it is to laugh). He wouldn’t get to do that, though, because the old guard in his party wouldn’t wear an independent Scotland without major challenge to his leadership. All hypothetical stuff - interesting to speculate but I don’t think he’ll have to cross that particular bridge. ---
**Author:** ![Stanislaus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stanislaus/32/3391_2.png) [@Stanislaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stanislaus)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2014, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotlands-referendum-on-independence-18-sept-2014/679356/723 "2014-09-17T15:34:05Z")
> [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](#): > > I read a little while ago that while attempting to speak to voters in an Edinburgh shopping district, Ed Milliband was shouted down by hecklers branding him as a “fucking liar” and “serial murderer”. > > While “fucking liar” is probably to be expected, why are they calling him a serial murderer? It’s the standard far left accusation against anyone involved with Tony Blair’s government - Iraq War = murder. > [@PaulParkhead](#): > > There is indeed a chance, although not a certainty, that Cameron would resign if the vote was for yes. He’s just denied (again) that he’d resign. This is good politics, because if he did make this a resignation matter then a lot of wavering Scots would be happy to take him up on his offer. But, as Busy Scissors says, losing Scotland would be seen as a catastrophic failure on his watch and a challenge would be highly likely. Similarly, Milliband could also be in the frame: Better Together has been much more of a Labour than a Tory operation and he is just as guilty of following complacency with panic. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2014, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotlands-referendum-on-independence-18-sept-2014/679356/724 "2014-09-17T15:52:43Z")
> [@Busy\_Scissors](#): > > …Cameron is not really a Tory, though (and hated for this by the fossils on his backbenches), or a man unduly troubled by principles. So I have no doubt he’d be quite prepared to take things in his stride - (picture David Cameron weighing up power versus principles, it is to laugh)… Reminds me of the old political gag: “Senator Smith spent the afternoon wrestling with his conscience, and won.” Here’s former PM Gordon Brown’s (himself a Scot) Better Together speech: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J39bBV7CBJk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J39bBV7CBJk) ---
**Author:** ![PaulParkhead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@PaulParkhead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PaulParkhead)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2014, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotlands-referendum-on-independence-18-sept-2014/679356/725 "2014-09-17T16:09:12Z")
> [@Stanislaus](#): > > He’s just denied (again) that he’d resign. This is good politics, because if he did make this a resignation matter then a lot of wavering Scots would be happy to take him up on his offer. > > But, as Busy Scissors says, losing Scotland would be seen as a catastrophic failure on his watch and a challenge would be highly likely. Similarly, Milliband could also be in the frame: Better Together has been much more of a Labour than a Tory operation and he is just as guilty of following complacency with panic. Agree on all points, although even if the vote is for No, as seems likely, they’ve come so close to snatching defeat from the jaws of victory that I don’t think anyone associated with the Better Together campaign will have much to be proud of. ---
**Author:** ![Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slow_moving_vehicle/32/291_2.png) [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slow_Moving_Vehicle)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2014, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotlands-referendum-on-independence-18-sept-2014/679356/726 "2014-09-17T17:32:57Z")
> [@Busy\_Scissors](#): > > Is there an outside chance of Cameron resigning if it’s a yes? The auld Tory backbenchers would be apoplectic - maybe a wee vote of no confidence? > > In the old days it would be an auto-resignation - the leader of the conservative and unionist party presiding over the break-up of the union? Standards for resignation have deteriorated, though, so maybe it’s a pipe dream. This may have already been asked and answered, but…if the Scots vote “No”, what happens to Salmond and the SNP? Wouldn’t a “No” vote amount to a vote of no confidence, especially if it were by a big margin of victory? Could he be considered as having lost his mandate, and if so, what would he try to do? Other than “independence” and “no nukes”, what else does the SNP have to offer voters? ---
**Author:** ![PaulParkhead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@PaulParkhead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PaulParkhead)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2014, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotlands-referendum-on-independence-18-sept-2014/679356/727 "2014-09-17T17:43:44Z")
> [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](#): > > This may have already been asked and answered, but…if the Scots vote “No”, what happens to Salmond and the SNP? Wouldn’t a “No” vote amount to a vote of no confidence, especially if it were by a big margin of victory? Could he be considered as having lost his mandate, and if so, what would he try to do? Other than “independence” and “no nukes”, what else does the SNP have to offer voters? If Scotland votes no, Salmond remains First Minister until he resigns or fails to win a majority at the next Holyrood election. It would not be a vote of no confidence - the referendum was only part of what he and the SNP were elected to do. ETA: Sorry, meant to add that regardless of the outcome, I suspect he will soon step down in favour of his deputy, Nicola Sturgeon. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2014, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotlands-referendum-on-independence-18-sept-2014/679356/728 "2014-09-17T18:13:10Z")
Something I’ve been wondering: Is there any legal requirement that the UK repeal the 1707 Acts of Union and pass a bill granting Scotland independence in case of a “Yes” vote, or is it just something expected to happen? Also… is there any latitude for the Queen to act to prevent this directly if she so desired? I’m just wondering if this is kind of similar to a US state voting to secede; they could vote to secede all they want, but Congress and the President don’t have to (and wouldn’t) recognize it. ---
**Author:** ![Malden\_Capell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malden_capell/32/5274_2.png) [@Malden\_Capell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malden_Capell)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2014, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotlands-referendum-on-independence-18-sept-2014/679356/729 "2014-09-17T18:20:33Z")
> [@bump](#): > > Something I’ve been wondering: > > Is there any legal requirement that the UK repeal the 1707 Acts of Union and pass a bill granting Scotland independence in case of a “Yes” vote, or is it just something expected to happen? > > Also… is there any latitude for the Queen to act to prevent this directly if she so desired? > > I’m just wondering if this is kind of similar to a US state voting to secede; they could vote to secede all they want, but Congress and the President don’t have to (and wouldn’t) recognize it. I think the fact that this referendum has legal force with the blessing of both Westminster and Holyrood makes any legalistic objection to it irrelevant and probably inflammatory. ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2014, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotlands-referendum-on-independence-18-sept-2014/679356/730 "2014-09-17T18:25:54Z")
> [@bump](#): > > Something I’ve been wondering: > > Is there any legal requirement that the UK repeal the 1707 Acts of Union and pass a bill granting Scotland independence in case of a “Yes” vote, or is it just something expected to happen? > > Also… is there any latitude for the Queen to act to prevent this directly if she so desired? > > I’m just wondering if this is kind of similar to a US state voting to secede; they could vote to secede all they want, but Congress and the President don’t have to (and wouldn’t) recognize it. The Edinburgh Agreement on Independence committed both parties to carry out and respect the referendum. Of course either side could renege but this would have a political cost. The Queen can only act on instruction of Cameron; she will not act. ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2014, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotlands-referendum-on-independence-18-sept-2014/679356/731 "2014-09-17T18:37:12Z")
> [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](#): > > This may have already been asked and answered, but…if the Scots vote “No”, what happens to Salmond and the SNP? Wouldn’t a “No” vote amount to a vote of no confidence, especially if it were by a big margin of victory? Could he be considered as having lost his mandate, and if so, what would he try to do? Other than “independence” and “no nukes”, what else does the SNP have to offer voters? The SNP has provided good government as a majority administration and coalition partner for seven years. Nearly fifty percent voted for it in 2011! What has the SNP done for us: [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/POP-DjI0wvw/maxresdefault.jpg "What has the Scottish Government Ever Done for Us? SNP Political Broadcast 2011") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=POP-DjI0wvw) ---
**Author:** ![Scougs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scougs/32/3158_2.png) [@Scougs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scougs)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2014, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotlands-referendum-on-independence-18-sept-2014/679356/732 "2014-09-17T18:47:06Z")
> [@Baron\_Greenback](#): > > Any other Scottish types on here who have rather hit the wall with the campaign? I just long for it to be over now. Well, we’re nearly there. I’ve given up watching the news. I’m wondering what on earth is going to be on my Facebook feed once this is over. I voted by post a couple of weeks back. The only decision I have now is whether to try and get some sleep early on, or just to stay up - my local pub is one of a handful that have actually been granted a 3am license for the occasion so we can start to watch the results come in. ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2014, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotlands-referendum-on-independence-18-sept-2014/679356/733 "2014-09-17T18:56:58Z")
> [@Scougs](#): > > I’ve given up watching the news. I’m wondering what on earth is going to be on my Facebook feed once this is over. Ha, I’m half-expecting to see posts on the lines of “Oh sorry, while I’ve been posting nothing but endless “Yes” links for the past year, I forgot let everyone know I’ve just given birth to twins” 😃 ---
**Author:** ![PaulParkhead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@PaulParkhead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PaulParkhead)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2014, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotlands-referendum-on-independence-18-sept-2014/679356/734 "2014-09-17T19:04:25Z")
My FB feed splits about 50/50, with the “Yes” folks more strident and the “No” folks more outright obnoxious. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2014, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotlands-referendum-on-independence-18-sept-2014/679356/735 "2014-09-17T19:19:31Z")
> [@Pjen](#): > > …The Queen can only act on instruction of Cameron; she will not act. Here’s [CNN.com](http://CNN.com) on HM and the Scottish vote: [http://www.cnn.com/2014/09/17/world/europe/scotland-queen-vote-foster/index.html?hpt=hp\_t1](http://www.cnn.com/2014/09/17/world/europe/scotland-queen-vote-foster/index.html?hpt=hp_t1) ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2014, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotlands-referendum-on-independence-18-sept-2014/679356/736 "2014-09-17T22:34:45Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Here’s [CNN.com](http://CNN.com) on HM and the Scottish vote: [http://www.cnn.com/2014/09/17/world/europe/scotland-queen-vote-foster/index.html?hpt=hp\_t1](http://www.cnn.com/2014/09/17/world/europe/scotland-queen-vote-foster/index.html?hpt=hp_t1) Which does agree with what I have said. ---
**Author:** ![Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slow_moving_vehicle/32/291_2.png) [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slow_Moving_Vehicle)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2014, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotlands-referendum-on-independence-18-sept-2014/679356/737 "2014-09-17T23:28:19Z")
> [@PaulParkhead](#): > > If Scotland votes no, Salmond remains First Minister until he resigns or fails to win a majority at the next Holyrood election. It would not be a vote of no confidence - the referendum was only part of what he and the SNP were elected to do. > > ETA: Sorry, meant to add that regardless of the outcome, I suspect he will soon step down in favour of his deputy, Nicola Sturgeon. Yeah, sorry, I wasn’t clear. I didn’t mean “what happens to the Salmond government constitutionally”; I was asking what the _political_ repercussions of a “No” vote are. Independence is the Scottish National Party’s _raison d’etre_; seems to me that they’ve got a lot of political credit riding on this referendum, no? (I mean in terms of party politics, as opposed to “the future direction of Scotland” that _everyone_ north of the Tweed has riding on it) Totally trivial, but surely y’all have got some good fish-related jokes based on “Salmond” and “Sturgeon”… > [@Pjen](#): > > The SNP has provided good government as a majority administration and coalition partner for seven years. Nearly fifty percent voted for it in 2011! > > What has the SNP done for us: > > [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=POP-DjI0wvw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=POP-DjI0wvw) Okay, I’ll take your word for it. I can see how my comment could be read as a dig at the SNP, but I was really asking what else they stand for, besides independence? I’m an American, albeit of Scottish descent; I ain’t got a dawg in this fight. ---
**Author:** ![PaulParkhead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@PaulParkhead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PaulParkhead)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2014, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotlands-referendum-on-independence-18-sept-2014/679356/738 "2014-09-18T01:53:34Z")
> [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](#): > > Yeah, sorry, I wasn’t clear. I didn’t mean “what happens to the Salmond government constitutionally”; I was asking what the _political_ repercussions of a “No” vote are. Independence is the Scottish National Party’s _raison d’etre_; seems to me that they’ve got a lot of political credit riding on this referendum, no? (I mean in terms of party politics, as opposed to “the future direction of Scotland” that _everyone_ north of the Tweed has riding on it) > > Totally trivial, but surely y’all have got some good fish-related jokes based on “Salmond” and “Sturgeon”… Politically, the repercussions for Salmond will be that he tried and failed. As I said, he’ll probably step down regardless of the referendum result. The SNP will continue, and will probably remain somewhat popular since they are to the left of anyone in Scotland except the Greens. And I don’t have any good fish jokes, but then I do lack imagination in that regard. ---
**Author:** ![blindboyard](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blindboyard/32/2833_2.png) [@blindboyard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blindboyard)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2014, 6:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotlands-referendum-on-independence-18-sept-2014/679356/739 "2014-09-18T06:46:27Z")
> [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](#): > > Okay, I’ll take your word for it. I can see how my comment could be read as a dig at the SNP, but I was really asking what else they stand for, besides independence? I’m an American, albeit of Scottish descent; I ain’t got a dawg in this fight. They tried to privatise Scotland’s forests and whored themselves to Donald Trump. That is what they stand, or bend over, for. ---
**Author:** ![Malden\_Capell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malden_capell/32/5274_2.png) [@Malden\_Capell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malden_Capell)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2014, 7:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotlands-referendum-on-independence-18-sept-2014/679356/740 "2014-09-18T07:51:31Z")
Well, today’s the day. I am terrified of what the result might be. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotlands-referendum-on-independence-18-sept-2014/679356.md?page=36) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotlands-referendum-on-independence-18-sept-2014/679356.md?page=38)