# Scotland's referendum on Independence 18 Sept 2014 **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [January 21, 2014, 12:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotlands-referendum-on-independence-18-sept-2014/679356 "2014-01-21T12:11:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2014, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotlands-referendum-on-independence-18-sept-2014/679356/161 "2014-02-13T02:51:37Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > I know there’s a degree of joking going on here, but they’re clearly speaking English, just with a strong Scottish accent. It’s not Scots. What’s Scots then? ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2014, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotlands-referendum-on-independence-18-sept-2014/679356/162 "2014-02-13T02:54:32Z")
> [@Celyn](#): > > However, \*might \*also traditionally vote for the Labour Party, which, with the Tories, is against independence, (although there is now a group called "Labour for Independence). > > I’m honestly a bit clueless about sectarian divide - like football, I’m just ignorant about it. Not sure it how much it matters, although I do reckon there will be some noisiness from Orange Lodge types. They’re good at noise. Oh I hope it was clear how tenuous my certainty was on the matter. Everyone I know in Scotland is pro-independence. I don’t know all of their creeds as it never comes up but they’re all kinda artsy/music/theatre etc. types, so a thin slice of Scottish society overall. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2014, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotlands-referendum-on-independence-18-sept-2014/679356/163 "2014-02-13T03:01:23Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > I know there’s a degree of joking going on here, but they’re clearly speaking English, just with a strong Scottish accent. It’s not Scots. It’s Glaswegian, I suppose. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2014, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotlands-referendum-on-independence-18-sept-2014/679356/164 "2014-02-13T03:04:13Z")
Apropos of nothing, I once heard [Craig Ferguson](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Craig_Ferguson) on Comedy Central remark that Scotty was the one ST:TOS character he and his friends could not understand. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2014, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotlands-referendum-on-independence-18-sept-2014/679356/165 "2014-02-13T03:06:26Z")
> [@An\_Gadai](#): > > What’s Scots then? Robert Burns’ poetry is in Scots, I believe, or most of it is. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2014, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotlands-referendum-on-independence-18-sept-2014/679356/166 "2014-02-13T04:00:47Z")
> [@An\_Gadai](#): > > What’s Scots then? The vocabulary of Scots is sufficiently different that you wouldn’t understand it. This website has a sample: [http://www.omniglot.com/writing/scots.htm](http://www.omniglot.com/writing/scots.htm) > [@](#): > > The Scots Leid Associe wis foondit in 1972 an ettles tae fordle Scots in leeteratur, drama, the media, eddication an in ilka day uiss. Akis Scots wis ance the state langage o Scotland, it’s a vailid pairt o wir heirskip an the associe taks tent tae the fact that it shoud can tak its steid as a langage o Scotland, alang wi Gaelic an Inglis. ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2014, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotlands-referendum-on-independence-18-sept-2014/679356/167 "2014-02-13T06:14:38Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > The vocabulary of Scots is sufficiently different that you wouldn’t understand it. Exclusive language… men wearing dresses… esoteric log tossing sports… proud red hair… Belle and Sebastian… Oh My God, Scotsmen are hipsters! ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2014, 6:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotlands-referendum-on-independence-18-sept-2014/679356/168 "2014-02-13T06:41:14Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > The vocabulary of Scots is sufficiently different that you wouldn’t understand it. > > This website has a sample: > > [Scots language and alphabet](http://www.omniglot.com/writing/scots.htm) I understand about 99% of that sample. In fairness my dad spoke a version of the Scots leid but to deny that those lads in that video were speaking Scots seems odd to me. ---
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2014, 9:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotlands-referendum-on-independence-18-sept-2014/679356/169 "2014-02-13T09:56:44Z")
> [@PaulParkhead](#): > > I kinda knew someone would argue with me on this. What can I say? There are arseholes everywhere. My ex-wife is English, lived in Glasgow for many years, and does not report strong anti-English sentiment there at all. And I’ve been going to Scotland regularly for the past 39 years. Plural of anecdote is not data etc etc. Just offering my perspective. For the record I actually don’t want to make out that they’re nasty up there (or even down there, considering where I live now), I am half-Scot after all and am having great “fun” trying to slowly educate pretty much everyone in Sweden about the structure of the UK (where “England”, “Great Britain” and “United Kingdom” are all used interchangeably). As an example, we were watching the Sweden-GB women’s curling at work and someone called them the “English team”, despite the Scottish accents. On the thread’s topic, I really hope they don’t go independent as, frankly, I like things how they are. But if they do I hope I qualify for citizenship and if I do I will definitely be ordering my passport. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2014, 11:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotlands-referendum-on-independence-18-sept-2014/679356/170 "2014-02-13T11:58:17Z")
> [@amanset](#): > > And I’ve been going to Scotland regularly for the past 39 years. Plural of anecdote is not data etc etc. Just offering my perspective. > > For the record I actually don’t want to make out that they’re nasty up there (or even down there, considering where I live now), I am half-Scot after all and am having great “fun” trying to slowly educate pretty much everyone in Sweden about the structure of the UK (where “England”, “Great Britain” and “United Kingdom” are all used interchangeably). As an example, we were watching the Sweden-GB women’s curling at work and someone called them the “English team”, despite the Scottish accents. > > On the thread’s topic, I really hope they don’t go independent as, frankly, I like things how they are. But if they do I hope I qualify for citizenship and if I do I will definitely be ordering my passport. I think it’s probably gender. The type of arsehole who tells an Englishman to fuck off home is often also the type who wouldn’t say that to an Englishwoman. Especially if she’s pretty. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2014, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotlands-referendum-on-independence-18-sept-2014/679356/171 "2014-02-13T12:12:26Z")
> [@An\_Gadai](#): > > I understand about 99% of that sample. In fairness my dad spoke a version of the Scots leid but to deny that those lads in that video were speaking Scots seems odd to me. Every word they spoke was an ordinary English word. Which part do you think was Scots? ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2014, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotlands-referendum-on-independence-18-sept-2014/679356/172 "2014-02-14T00:09:17Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Every word they spoke was an ordinary English word. Which part do you think was Scots? All of it. Maybe we should defer to one of the Scottish people here, are those lads speaking Scots? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2014, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotlands-referendum-on-independence-18-sept-2014/679356/173 "2014-02-14T00:15:22Z")
(Missed edit window: Sorry for the hijack everyone) ---
**Author:** ![PaulParkhead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@PaulParkhead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PaulParkhead)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2014, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotlands-referendum-on-independence-18-sept-2014/679356/174 "2014-02-14T00:19:23Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Aye, 'tis braw! Sakes man. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![PaulParkhead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@PaulParkhead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PaulParkhead)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2014, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotlands-referendum-on-independence-18-sept-2014/679356/175 "2014-02-14T00:25:11Z")
> [@amanset](#): > > And I’ve been going to Scotland regularly for the past 39 years. Plural of anecdote is not data etc etc. Just offering my perspective. > > For the record I actually don’t want to make out that they’re nasty up there (or even down there, considering where I live now), I am half-Scot after all and am having great “fun” trying to slowly educate pretty much everyone in Sweden about the structure of the UK (where “England”, “Great Britain” and “United Kingdom” are all used interchangeably). As an example, we were watching the Sweden-GB women’s curling at work and someone called them the “English team”, despite the Scottish accents. Yah, fair enough, and I was just trying to point out that it’s possible to find anti-English sentiment, most certainly, and it seemed to be what **crucible** was seeking. You’ll even get drunks at parties being rude to you, a trait that is unique to Scotland :D. But we’re not all sat here simmering in a rage of hatred, we’re really not. And where I came in was that we’re most certainly not upset with the English because of the things that happened centuries ago. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2014, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotlands-referendum-on-independence-18-sept-2014/679356/176 "2014-02-14T03:26:10Z")
> [@PaulParkhead](#): > > Yah, fair enough, and I was just trying to point out that it’s possible to find anti-English sentiment, most certainly, and it seemed to be what **crucible** was seeking. You’ll even get drunks at parties being rude to you, a trait that is unique to Scotland :D. But we’re not all sat here simmering in a rage of hatred, we’re really not. > > And where I came in was that we’re most certainly not upset with the English because of the things that happened centuries ago. Then how come the Irish still are? ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2014, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotlands-referendum-on-independence-18-sept-2014/679356/177 "2014-02-14T03:41:17Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Then how come the Irish still are? The English (and other British) and the Irish (or certain factions of them) have been in murderous conflict a lot more recently than centuries ago. Anyway, in practice, most Irish and English people (and the British and Irish governments) get along fine, just as English and Scots do. Most Irish people are not full full of seething hatred for the English, just a few loudmouths, and similarly, only a few English bigots (and a few more Northern Ireland Orangemen) hold the Irish in contempt. ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2014, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotlands-referendum-on-independence-18-sept-2014/679356/178 "2014-02-14T03:43:14Z")
Because a good portion of it also happened much more recently. Edit: re: BrainGlutton post #176 And there is a difference between “I hate all you English bastards!” and busting someone’s balls. ---
**Author:** ![crucible](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@crucible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crucible)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2014, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotlands-referendum-on-independence-18-sept-2014/679356/179 "2014-02-14T03:45:56Z")
> [@PaulParkhead](#): > > Yah, fair enough, and I was just trying to point out that it’s possible to find anti-English sentiment, most certainly, and it seemed to be what **crucible** was seeking. You’ll even get drunks at parties being rude to you, a trait that is unique to Scotland :D. But we’re not all sat here simmering in a rage of hatred, we’re really not. > > And where I came in was that we’re most certainly not upset with the English because of the things that happened centuries ago. since the English killed most of those who supported Charles, or rewarded some with the lands and cattle of the ones who did, or sent them off to the colonies, or made sure they never again voiced an opinion about the rightful ownership of the crown…I’m not at all surprised that Scots don’t dwell on the events of 250 years past. But, truly, the English acted as conquerors of the country, not just as the defeaters of the pretender (in their opinion) to the throne. Northern General Sherman cut a path through the south from Atlanta to the Atlantic and up to Charleston SC, his men foraging as they went, destroying any industry they found on the way, but not maliciously killing and raping. But, 150 years later, Southerners still call the ‘March’ an atrocity. Cumberland had his men kill any wounded they might find, and march onward, killing any Scot found with a weapon, raping any woman or girl they could catch, burning people in their homes and barns…earning Cumberland the title of Butcher. I can not believe that Scots of today regard this as events from centuries ago from which we should draw no evidence of the way the English think of the HIghlander or Clansman. Apparently, based on the small sample here, I’m completely wrong. Scotland must be the only place in the world where the conqueror and butcher is embraced and loved so well.;);)😉 ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2014, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotlands-referendum-on-independence-18-sept-2014/679356/180 "2014-02-14T04:14:55Z")
> [@crucible](#): > > since the English killed most of those who supported Charles, or rewarded some with the lands and cattle of the ones who did, or sent them off to the colonies, or made sure they never again voiced an opinion about the rightful ownership of the crown…I’m not at all surprised that Scots don’t dwell on the events of 250 years past. > > But, truly, the English acted as conquerors of the country, not just as the defeaters of the pretender (in their opinion) to the throne. > > Northern General Sherman cut a path through the south from Atlanta to the Atlantic and up to Charleston SC, his men foraging as they went, destroying any industry they found on the way, but not maliciously killing and raping. But, 150 years later, Southerners still call the ‘March’ an atrocity. Cumberland had his men kill any wounded they might find, and march onward, killing any Scot found with a weapon, raping any woman or girl they could catch, burning people in their homes and barns…earning Cumberland the title of Butcher. I can not believe that Scots of today regard this as events from centuries ago from which we should draw no evidence of the way the English think of the HIghlander or Clansman. > > Apparently, based on the small sample here, I’m completely wrong. Scotland must be the only place in the world where the conqueror and butcher is embraced and loved so well.;);)😉 Who is the conqueror here? The Stuarts were a Scottish dynasty. Heck, have you noticed our current Prime Minister’s name? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotlands-referendum-on-independence-18-sept-2014/679356.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotlands-referendum-on-independence-18-sept-2014/679356.md?page=10)