# Scott Adams says... (Hillary & feminism) **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 26, 2016, 12:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scott-adams-says-hillary-feminism/747187 "2016-02-26T12:10:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Belowjob2.0](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Belowjob2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Belowjob2.0)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2016, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scott-adams-says-hillary-feminism/747187/21 "2016-02-26T20:57:31Z")
Adams has been doing a running series on his blog examining Trump’s campaign through the lens of Adams’ understanding of persuasion theory. Adams sees Trump as an absolute master of persuasion who will beat Hilary in the general election. I’m starting to believe Adams is right. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2016, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scott-adams-says-hillary-feminism/747187/22 "2016-02-26T21:03:13Z")
Clinton isn’t a feminist candidate because she’s female, she’s a feminist because she understands the hardships faced by women. There are plenty of women who are not feminists because they don’t understand how a woman is disproportionately harmed because she is a woman. To start, almost any women in the Republican side don’t seem to know or care that there’s a gender gap in pay, power, and how people treat them ---
**Author:** ![Memnon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f1d935/32.png) [@Memnon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Memnon)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2016, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scott-adams-says-hillary-feminism/747187/23 "2016-02-26T21:04:10Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > That must be why [60% of women and a third of men consider themselves feminists](https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/national/feminism-project/poll/), higher than in [previous periods in history, right?](http://www.gallup.com/poll/6715/feminism-whats-name.aspx) > > I mean, sure, I’d like the numbers to be a lot higher than that, but it hardly comprises a “trashed reputation.” I’ve seen [figures](http://www.vox.com/2015/4/8/8372417/feminist-gender-equality-poll) which show the percentage of Americans who consider themselves feminists is only 18%. Also, even assuming your figures are accurate, don’t you think it’s weird that a mere 60% of _women_ consider themselves feminists? Surely you’d expect that figure to be close to 100%. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2016, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scott-adams-says-hillary-feminism/747187/24 "2016-02-26T21:17:28Z")
In looking for figures, I came across similar numbers, from less-respected pollsters than WaPo (e.g., YouGov). I can’t find anything about Perry Undem research, so I don’t know how reliable they are. YouGov, a different polling firm with lower numbers, gets a C+ rating from fivethirtyeight, compared to the A rating WaPo gets. It seems that the reputation of feminism is on a slow rise. And while I wish 100% of women and men were feminist, we live in a crazy society; it doesn’t surpise me that the numbers are lower. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2016, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scott-adams-says-hillary-feminism/747187/25 "2016-02-26T21:49:38Z")
> [@Katriona](#): > > He lost me years ago when he became a proponent of “intelligent design,” and lately he’s become a big MRA apologist. And he shares the MRA propensity for melodramatic pronouncements of DOOOOOOOM based on ridiculous overreactions to entirely unremarkable mundane situations. Oh wow, a female presidential candidate is talking up the positives of having a female POTUS. Cue the apocalypse in 3…2…1… ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2016, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scott-adams-says-hillary-feminism/747187/26 "2016-02-26T23:01:13Z")
> [@Tithonus](#): > > I’ve seen [figures](http://www.vox.com/2015/4/8/8372417/feminist-gender-equality-poll) which show the percentage of Americans who consider themselves feminists is only 18%. > > Also, even assuming your figures are accurate, don’t you think it’s weird that a mere 60% of _women_ consider themselves feminists? Surely you’d expect that figure to be close to 100%. Not really. People who have bought in to the older system often have a stake in it. More sexually available women can be threatening for women who’ve believed sexual scarcity would keep their marriage safe. New economic expectations can be scary for women who haven’t developed workforce related skills. New ideas about gender roles can be uncomfortable for women who dream of their little girls being fluffy pink princesses. Rigid gender roles are not just a matter of raw oppression. They are a part of an internally consistent system where people are rewarded for acting in specific ways. People who don’t play by those rules threaten to undermine the investment they’ve made. Think about sex. The old deal was that women marry young and remain sexually exclusive to their husband, who provides economic support. Any woman having sex freely faced strong social sanctions and reduced prospects in life, so men had limited options for sex outside of marriage. But once women start supporting themselves and not needing to maintain the scarcity value of sex, the whole system falls apart. The women who staked their well-being on the old system face find that what they’ve invested in no longer has the same value. What is left to do except rail on that “hookup culture” or whatever is ruining America? ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2016, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scott-adams-says-hillary-feminism/747187/27 "2016-02-26T23:07:37Z")
> [@Tithonus](#): > > Also, even assuming your figures are accurate, don’t you think it’s weird that a mere 60% of _women_ consider themselves feminists? Surely you’d expect that figure to be close to 100%. Surely. 100%, that’s what you’d expect, since human beings tend to be so similar about everything. Why I can’t remember the last poll that didn’t have nearly 100% of respondents saying the same thing. ---
**Author:** ![LinusK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/258eb7/32.png) [@LinusK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LinusK)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2016, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scott-adams-says-hillary-feminism/747187/28 "2016-02-27T00:55:15Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > The only thing I think that he could possibly be talking about are those women who tried to shame women who support Sanders by saying they weren’t feminists because they weren’t voting for Clinton. That really did kinda make them not look like real feminists, and if feminists hadn’t made a big deal of disavowing it, it would have been bad for feminism. > > And, yeah. Scott Adams is really bad with gender relations. It’s gotten him in trouble before, and I’m surprised he hasn’t shut up by now. > > And, anyways, even if you think Clinton is horrible, it doesn’t set back feminism in any way. Feminism is about empowering women, and sometimes you’ll empower someone to do bad things. True egalitarianism means accepting that women aren’t perfect, either. Well, if he’s “gotten in trouble” for “gender relationships” he should probably shut up. After all, shutting up is what free speech is all about. I assume - and I’m not him, so I can’t say for sure - he means that by saying is gender a qualification for president, she was undermining the idea that feminism is about equality. Egalitarianism means people should be judged by their merits. Notably, this is a mistake Obama never made. His argument was that he would make the best president. Not that he was black. Adams predicted Trump would win the nomination back in August, back when the general consensus was that he was a joke. At this point, he’s probably 4:1 to win it. What I fear is that Hillary’s weaknesses will play to Trump’s strengths. A Trump presidency would be an unmitigated disaster. I fear the Democratic Party made a mistake when it cleared the field for Hillary. We’d have been better off with many candidates, rather than just her, and the Socialist from Vermont. (Not that I don’t like Bernie. I do.) ---
**Author:** ![Stringbean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Stringbean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stringbean)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2016, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scott-adams-says-hillary-feminism/747187/29 "2016-02-27T01:00:38Z")
Modern feminism destroys itself when the pouty little girls on Facebook hit 30. ---
**Author:** ![Icarus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/icarus/32/72_2.png) [@Icarus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Icarus)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2016, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scott-adams-says-hillary-feminism/747187/30 "2016-02-27T01:02:41Z")
Number one, the quote suggests (to me, anyway) that Scott Adams is positioning himself as a expert on and a defender of modern feminism. Number two, because number one is patently ridiculous (he is certainly concern trolling), there is no number two! ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2016, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scott-adams-says-hillary-feminism/747187/31 "2016-02-27T01:05:23Z")
> [@LinusK](#): > > Well, if he’s “gotten in trouble” for “gender relationships” he should probably shut up. After all, shutting up is what free speech is all about. No–shutting up is what not sounding like a dumbshit is all about. Free speech isn’t implicated one way or another. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2016, 6:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scott-adams-says-hillary-feminism/747187/32 "2016-02-27T06:57:50Z")
> [@LinusK](#): > > I assume - and I’m not him, so I can’t say for sure - he means that by saying is gender a qualification for president, she was undermining the idea that feminism is about equality. It would help if we knew what actual statements, if any, by Clinton sent Adams into his paroxysm of pearl-clutching about the catastrophic damage thereby inflicted on feminism. It’s not particularly enlightening just to discuss your interpretation of what you think Adams’s interpretation of some unspecified statement by Clinton may have been. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2016, 8:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scott-adams-says-hillary-feminism/747187/33 "2016-02-27T08:44:34Z")
Partly but not exactly true. Actually, Albright and Steinem did that, but it was Second Wave feminism they discredited, not the more modern form of Intersectional social justice. Hillary kind of encouraged it, maybe. ---
**Author:** ![LinusK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/258eb7/32.png) [@LinusK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LinusK)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2016, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scott-adams-says-hillary-feminism/747187/34 "2016-02-27T13:45:07Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > I do not find this sufficiently persuasive. As a woman attempting to break into a job that is rather dominated by men, it’s understandable that Clinton would have to exert efforts into convincing people that it is acceptable for a woman to be President. > > That is a very different matter from what Adams said, which was “declaring her gender an important selling point for a job.” Literally taken, that can only be interpreted as Clinton saying her being a woman is not only a specific qualification for the job, but an IMPORTANT one, not just a minor benefit. I can understand. As a woman attempting to break into a job that is dominated by men, it is important to to convince people it’s acceptable for a woman to be president. If she’d said gender was an important selling point for the job, that would be different. [Clinton: Female politicians govern differently than men](http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/presidential-races/265037-clinton-female-politicians-govern-differently-than-men) > [@](#): > > When asked if she thinks she would govern differently than a male president, Clinton said “I do,” noting a different emphasis on issues and certain character traits. > > “There are some areas where our own life experiences really prepare us to be more receptive. I do think there is something in the governing or organizing approach,” she said. > > “I just think women in general are better listeners, are more collegial, more open to new ideas and how to make things work in a way that looks for win-win outcomes.” ---
**Author:** ![LinusK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/258eb7/32.png) [@LinusK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LinusK)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2016, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scott-adams-says-hillary-feminism/747187/35 "2016-02-27T13:51:24Z")
> [@Belowjob2.0](#): > > Adams has been doing a running series on his blog examining Trump’s campaign through the lens of Adams’ understanding of persuasion theory. Adams sees Trump as an absolute master of persuasion who will beat Hilary in the general election. > > I’m starting to believe Adams is right. I fear that he’s right too. I will give myself entirely unverifiable credit for predicting Trump’s nomination back in the summer. And for putting money on it, too. But I always thought he’d lose the general. Now I’m not so sure. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2016, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scott-adams-says-hillary-feminism/747187/36 "2016-02-27T13:53:24Z")
> [@LinusK](#): > > Well, if he’s “gotten in trouble” for “gender relationships” he should probably shut up. After all, shutting up is what free speech is all about. Are you under the delusion that freedom of speech means you can’t self censor? I never tried to force him to shut up. I just said I’m surprised he hasn’t chosen to of his own volition. I’m also surprised you keep bringing up feminist topics here, as they don’t seem to ever go well for you. Am I now going to get modded for junior moderating? Neither of you seem to know what you are talking about on this subject. ---
**Author:** ![LinusK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/258eb7/32.png) [@LinusK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LinusK)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2016, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scott-adams-says-hillary-feminism/747187/37 "2016-02-27T15:27:54Z")
> [@Belowjob2.0](#): > > Adams has been doing a running series on his blog examining Trump’s campaign through the lens of Adams’ understanding of persuasion theory. Adams sees Trump as an absolute master of persuasion who will beat Hilary in the general election. > > I’m starting to believe Adams is right. I’m making my way through that series now. I’m not sure how much of Adams’ is serious, or just trolling. But there’s no doubt that he’s a bright guy. Referring to Hillary playing the gender card, he says: > [@](#): > > That’s how Trump wins in a landslide if Clinton is nominated. Clinton’s brand as a Democrat depended on her not jumping the shark from equality to superiority, even if people think she is right that men are bad listeners. Clinton said other things about men too, but I wasn’t listening. That made me laugh. Anyway, insulting a large bloc of voters is a poor election strategy. But it fits with her generally poor political instincts. ---
**Author:** ![Belowjob2.0](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Belowjob2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Belowjob2.0)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2016, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scott-adams-says-hillary-feminism/747187/38 "2016-02-27T15:38:06Z")
> [@LinusK](#): > > I’m making my way through that series now. > > I’m not sure how much of Adams’ is serious, or just trolling. But there’s no doubt that he’s a bright guy. > > Referring to Hillary playing the gender card, he says: > > That made me laugh. > > Anyway, insulting a large bloc of voters is a poor election strategy. But it fits with her generally poor political instincts. Adams has said that his banking career at Crocker National was dead-ended by the company mandate to only promote women to achieve gender parity. So he probably sees Hilary with a jaundiced eye. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2016, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scott-adams-says-hillary-feminism/747187/39 "2016-02-27T19:11:04Z")
Why? Did Hilary work at Crocker National? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2016, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scott-adams-says-hillary-feminism/747187/40 "2016-02-27T19:47:52Z")
> [@Tithonus](#): > > I’ve seen [figures](http://www.vox.com/2015/4/8/8372417/feminist-gender-equality-poll) which show the percentage of Americans who consider themselves feminists is only 18%. > > Also, even assuming your figures are accurate, don’t you think it’s weird that a mere 60% of _women_ consider themselves feminists? Surely you’d expect that figure to be close to 100%. I think we should should look at more questions in that poll because on other sites the same poll was reported to not be so bad: > **[How Many Americans Call Themselves Feminists Doesn't Match Up To The Actual...](https://www.bustle.com/articles/75340-how-many-americans-call-themselves-feminists-doesnt-match-up-to-the-actual-numbers)** > > So much for 2014 being the year of the feminist. While last year may have been filled with great moments for feminism and big steps toward gender inequality, a new poll by Vox reveals that only 18 percent of Americans consider themselves to be… > [@](#): > > According to the Vox poll, conducted by research and communications firm PerryUndem, a whopping 85 percent of Americans responded that they believe in equal rights for women. Seems to me that many thought about the more militant kind of feminism in the quoted question. When asked: “Do you believe in social, political, legal, and economic equality of the sexes” 78% did agree, and when asked about: “Do you think there is full equality for women in work, life, and politics or is there still work to be done?” 76 percent said: “No, there is still work to be done”. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scott-adams-says-hillary-feminism/747187.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scott-adams-says-hillary-feminism/747187.md?page=3)