# Scott Boras: superagent (MLB) **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [June 18, 2011, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scott-boras-superagent-mlb/585971 "2011-06-18T21:25:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![etv78](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d78d45/32.png) [@etv78](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/etv78)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2011, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scott-boras-superagent-mlb/585971/21 "2011-06-22T01:38:14Z")
> [@Munch](#): > > Tell that to the actual MLB player who wrote the article. And if you don’t want to take an anonymous person’s word for it, ask Evan Longoria if he thought he got the most money he could have when he signed his contract with the Rays. Or Billy Butler if 4/30 was the most he could have gotten through 2015 if he didn’t sign with the Royals. For someone who can’t do an ounce of research in this forum, you sure do have a lot of absolutes you’re willing to spew. **Munch** -Are you contending that players, all else being equal, AREN"T trying to maximize their income? It doesn’t take research to know that, all it takes is a brain and the ability to count. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2011, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scott-boras-superagent-mlb/585971/22 "2011-06-22T02:27:51Z")
> [@etv78](#): > > **Munch** -Are you contending that players, all else being equal, AREN"T trying to maximize their income? etv78 - are you contending that maximum salary is the ONLY thing players worry about? It doesn’t take any actual research to know that either, since there are plenty of players that don’t wait until free agency to maximize their contracts. The fact that Reyes hasn’t taken on Scott Boras as his agent speaks to that pretty plainly. Look at players who take paycuts. LeBron James took a paycut to play for the Heat. A-Rod was looking to take a paycut in 2004 so he could play for the Red Sox, but the MLBPA vetoed the trade, and the Yankees picked him up. > [@](#): > > It doesn’t take research to know that, all it takes is a brain and the ability to count. I’ll point out that it takes just one example to refute an absolute statement. If you’d like to amend what you said, please feel free. [QUOTE=RickJay] Since neither Longoria nor Butler were free agents, perhaps that WAS the most they could have gotten. They did not have the option of auctioning thier services to another bidder. [/QUOTE] They did have the option of waiting until free agency though - which is my point. As you say - it’s a matter of risk aversion. The moment someone does something logical like factor in the possibility of becoming injured, they’ve stopped maximizing their income, and switched to mitigating their risk. ---
**Author:** ![deb2world](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7cd45c/32.png) [@deb2world](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/deb2world)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2011, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scott-boras-superagent-mlb/585971/23 "2011-06-22T02:28:37Z")
Boras gets a bad rap, yes he is an s.o.b. negotiator, but that is the job of an agent, to get the best deal possible. But when you look at the story of Kendry(s) Morales who last year changed agents from one who stole alot of money from him to Scott Boras (and from what I have read Kendry(s) got counseled by the Angels who to go with for a new agent). Hey at least Boras is treating his client’s money correctly. ---
**Author:** ![etv78](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d78d45/32.png) [@etv78](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/etv78)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2011, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scott-boras-superagent-mlb/585971/24 "2011-06-22T03:13:05Z")
> [@deb2world](#): > > Boras gets a bad rap, yes he is an s.o.b. negotiator, but that is the job of an agent, to get the best deal possible. But when you look at the story of Kendry(s) Morales who last year changed agents from one who stole alot of money from him to Scott Boras (and from what I have read Kendry(s) got counseled by the Angels who to go with for a new agent). Hey at least Boras is treating his client’s money correctly. Agreed! Boras may be a jerk, but he’s an ethical jerk. ---
**Author:** ![etv78](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d78d45/32.png) [@etv78](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/etv78)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2011, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scott-boras-superagent-mlb/585971/25 "2011-06-22T03:16:25Z")
**Munch** -you picked 2 examples out of 750 baseball players and 360 basketball players! I’m not limiting my observation to Boras clients, but athletes in general. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2011, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scott-boras-superagent-mlb/585971/26 "2011-06-22T03:25:04Z")
> [@etv78](#): > > **Munch** -you picked 2 examples out of 750 baseball players and 360 basketball players! I’m not limiting my observation to Boras clients, but athletes in general. First off, I’m up to 4 examples (Butler, Longoria, James, A-Rod). Secondly, what’s your point? When you use absolute language, all it takes is ONE example to prove your point incorrect, and there are countless other examples of players who sign contracts before entering free agency. The fact is, players RARELY maximize their salary. Cliff Lee turned down an $30 million so he could return to Philly. The aforementioned Butler and Longoria took a deal before hitting free agency - and that was just off the top of my head. Do I really need to go on? You’re already wrong - do you need to be MORE wrong? ---
**Author:** ![VarlosZ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d78d45/32.png) [@VarlosZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VarlosZ)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2011, 8:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scott-boras-superagent-mlb/585971/27 "2011-06-22T08:16:14Z")
> [@Munch](#): > > The moment someone does something logical like factor in the possibility of becoming injured, they’ve stopped maximizing their income, and switched to mitigating their risk. Not necessarily: it’s entirely possible for a player to mitigate his risk in this fashion while simultaneously increasing his expected return. Yes, most of the time he’ll wind up with somewhat less salary, but those times that hedging does pay off can swamp the calculation, because instead of representing the difference between $14M and $12M, it represents the difference between $12M and nothing. Through hedging, the player might thus increase the expected value of his earnings, it which case it’s pretty meaningless that he \*might \*have gotten more money by accepting risk. But even when that _isn’t_ the case – i.e., even when the player reduces his expectation through hedging like this – risk amelioration is still a benefit in and of itself, and should be seen as part of his compensation. The player agrees to a deal whereby he will be paid tens of millions of dollars AND the burden of his injury/decline risk is shifted from himself to the team. It’s not that he isn’t maximizing his compensation, but rather that he’s accepting part of it in a form other than salary. Of course, there are a lot of players who will accept a somewhat smaller deal (even after factoring in the value of risk reduction) in order to wind up with a more agreeable franchise. On the other hand, there are a lot of players who won’t, and most of the ones who do are only willing to play around like this on the margins of their salary. ---
**Author:** ![Hawkeyeop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/958977/32.png) [@Hawkeyeop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hawkeyeop)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2011, 11:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scott-boras-superagent-mlb/585971/28 "2011-06-22T11:46:39Z")
> [@etv78](#): > > **Munch** -Are you contending that players, all else being equal, AREN"T trying to maximize their income? It doesn’t take research to know that, all it takes is a brain and the ability to count. You mean like the rest of humanity? While I’m willing to acknowledge that most players contract are reasonable even if they sign early for less than market value, the Longoria contract had to be just about the friendliest contract for ownership since the advent of free agency. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2011, 12:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scott-boras-superagent-mlb/585971/29 "2011-06-22T12:13:38Z")
Varlosz, there’s nothing in there that really contradicts what I’ve been saying - I’m merely stating that the number of players who will take a Cliff Lee or Evan Longoria pro-team contract is greater than zero. It seems that etv78 is the new gonzomax in baseball threads - absolute statements with nothing to back them up, and a complete unwillingness to back down once shown the crack in the dam. ---
**Author:** ![etv78](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d78d45/32.png) [@etv78](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/etv78)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2011, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scott-boras-superagent-mlb/585971/30 "2011-06-22T18:36:40Z")
> [@Hawkeyeop](#): > > You mean like the rest of humanity? > > While I’m willing to acknowledge that most players contract are reasonable even if they sign early for less than market value, the Longoria contract had to be just about the friendliest contract for ownership since the advent of free agency. Hawkeyeop-I have ZERO problem with “regular” people doing this, because they don’t make MILLIONS playing a game! ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2011, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scott-boras-superagent-mlb/585971/31 "2011-06-22T19:02:30Z")
> [@etv78](#): > > Hawkeyeop-I have ZERO problem with “regular” people doing this, because they don’t make MILLIONS playing a game! Oh god, has it now devolved into “I don’t have to make a coherent argument, because anything over the MLB minimum $400k is the MAXIMUM”? I want gonzomax back… ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2011, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scott-boras-superagent-mlb/585971/32 "2011-06-23T03:28:41Z")
**Moderator Note** The purpose of the thread is to discuss Scott Boras, athlete representation and related topics. Is it not to discuss the alleged faults of SDMB posters. Some posts are bordering on personal insults. Please do not go in that direction. Thanks, RickJay Moderator ---
**Author:** ![Yookeroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yookeroo/32/323_2.png) [@Yookeroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yookeroo)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2011, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scott-boras-superagent-mlb/585971/33 "2011-06-23T03:30:42Z")
> [@etv78](#): > > Agreed! Boras may be a jerk, but he’s an ethical jerk. Is he a jerk? ---
**Author:** ![etv78](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d78d45/32.png) [@etv78](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/etv78)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2011, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scott-boras-superagent-mlb/585971/34 "2011-06-23T03:33:37Z")
> [@Yookeroo](#): > > Is he a jerk? Only in the sense that he cares more about making $ than the fans. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2011, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scott-boras-superagent-mlb/585971/35 "2011-06-23T03:39:08Z")
> [@etv78](#): > > Only in the sense that he cares more about making $ than the fans. Why is that being a jerk? ---
**Author:** ![Hawkeyeop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/958977/32.png) [@Hawkeyeop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hawkeyeop)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2011, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scott-boras-superagent-mlb/585971/36 "2011-06-23T03:54:42Z")
> [@etv78](#): > > Only in the sense that he cares more about making $ than the fans. The nerve of the man to do his job. ---
**Author:** ![etv78](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d78d45/32.png) [@etv78](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/etv78)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2011, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scott-boras-superagent-mlb/585971/37 "2011-06-23T04:01:28Z")
> [@Hawkeyeop](#): > > The nerve of the man to do his job. All I mean is that his clients make more $ (playing a GAME) than the average person will see in several lifetimes. ---
**Author:** ![Hawkeyeop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/958977/32.png) [@Hawkeyeop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hawkeyeop)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2011, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scott-boras-superagent-mlb/585971/38 "2011-06-23T05:01:40Z")
> [@etv78](#): > > All I mean is that his clients make more $ (playing a GAME) than the average person will see in several lifetimes. Welcome to capitalism. ---
**Author:** ![etv78](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d78d45/32.png) [@etv78](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/etv78)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2011, 6:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scott-boras-superagent-mlb/585971/39 "2011-06-23T06:44:00Z")
> [@Hawkeyeop](#): > > Welcome to capitalism. Guess you don’t understand middle-class resentment. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2011, 12:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scott-boras-superagent-mlb/585971/40 "2011-06-23T12:06:42Z")
> [@etv78](#): > > All I mean is that his clients make more $ (playing a GAME) than the average person will see in several lifetimes. So what do you propose Boras to do? Quit it all, and stand on the corner preaching the sins of capitalism? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scott-boras-superagent-mlb/585971.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scott-boras-superagent-mlb/585971.md?page=3)