# Scott Plaid, Stand Up or Shut Up **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 2, 2005, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scott-plaid-stand-up-or-shut-up/310794 "2005-07-02T03:22:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 24
**Author:** ![Pythian\_Habenero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a6a055/32.png) [@Pythian\_Habenero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pythian_Habenero)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2005, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scott-plaid-stand-up-or-shut-up/310794/461 "2005-07-06T23:19:57Z")
> [@EddyTeddyFreddy](#): > > Ah, but the spelling is deliberate, as she explains [here.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=6318894&postcount=60) > > [A charming critter, no?](http://www.metalandmagic.com/modules.php?set_albumName=weirdfruit&id=habeneroslug&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_photo.php&PHPSESSID=a3e76d9ae64d07e624d420868ac86f87) Yes, thank you for saying that so I didn’t have to. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Excalibre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@Excalibre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Excalibre)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2005, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scott-plaid-stand-up-or-shut-up/310794/462 "2005-07-06T23:23:11Z")
> [@The Highwayman](#): > > God damn! This isn’t just a thread, **it’s an intervention**. We need 20 more people to pile on poor old Scott. Actually, I was enjoying the poetry hijack. Why try to help someone who doesn’t want helping? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2005, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scott-plaid-stand-up-or-shut-up/310794/463 "2005-07-06T23:53:55Z")
> [@The Highwayman](#): > > God damn! This isn’t just a thread, **it’s an intervention**. We need 20 more people to pile on poor old Scott. I’m with **tomndebb** on this one. I’d like to see a bunch more folks sign up for the “questions only in GD” pledge for a week. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2005, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scott-plaid-stand-up-or-shut-up/310794/464 "2005-07-07T00:43:10Z")
> [@RobuSensei](#): > > First, if YOU and YOU ALONE are declaring yourself the “victor” in a debate, odds are you aren’t. Based on his political stripes, I wonder if it will make an impression on him to compare his ridiculous self-declarations of triumph to the equally ridiculous spectacle of George Dubya claiming victory as he buggers out of the inarguably unwinnable debacle Iraq will be two or three years from now. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2005, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scott-plaid-stand-up-or-shut-up/310794/465 "2005-07-07T00:58:09Z")
> [@Fenris](#): > > I don’t believe it was. > > And I love that poem but it has to be read aloud (preferably with gestures–particularly by beating on an empty barrel with the handle of a broom as appropriate) for full impact. And while the poet’s intent certainly wasn’t racist, it _is_ pretty squinky by today’s standards, isn’t it? Yeh, my teacher was slamming away with open palms on his desk at certain moments when he rolled through that. Gave me chills when he recited the last few lines, drawn out to great length, > [@](#): > > Dying down into a penetrating, terrified whisper as the notes say on the version I linked to. Now I’m hearing James Earl Jones recite it – can you imagine? ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2005, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scott-plaid-stand-up-or-shut-up/310794/466 "2005-07-07T01:18:30Z")
So, since I’m trying not to pile on Scott anymore, I’ll change the subject remorselessly. **Bricker** asked **Scott** a few pages ago to summarize the Slippery Slope Fallacy as if he were teaching a class. Intrigued, I got to thinking about how I would teach it to a class. Here’s my lesson plan. Feedback welcome (especially since I’m going back to school to be an elementary school teacher; I may end up doing a lesson like this in the classroom one day). Start off by going into a classroom, with a few assumptions: 1. They’re bright fourth-graders or thereabouts. 2. They’re doing a unit on logic, and are familiar with the words “logic” and “fallacy.” 3. You can give them cookies. Tell them that they’ve been doing so well with the logic unit lately, that you decided last night to surprise them with…cookies! Brandish a bag of cookies and wait for the “Yays!” to die down. Look worried, and continue. "But you see, I was thinking about it. If I give you cookies, then you’ll probably be happy. And happy people get excited, and sometimes excited people get up and run around all over the place. People running around all over the place happens during riots, and when people riot, cities can burn. CITIES BURN! “Give you cookies, cities burn. So I decided that, in the interests of humanity, I’d not give you cookies. Aren’t you glad you have such a thoughtful and logical teacher?” Wait for the “Noooo!!!” wails to die down; look shocked that they disagree with you; and make an offer. If the students can persuade you that you’re being illogical, they’ll get cookies. Illustrate your argument on the board with a slope. Put a happy cookie-eating face at the top; next down, put the excited people; then excited people with baseball bats; then cities burning at the bottom. If they argue that these things don’t necessarily follow, draw in big arrows pointing from one to the other and really emphasize those arrows. The students should make the following points: 1. Not all the steps in the argument follow from previous steps (people can be happy without getting especially excited, for example). 2. Sometimes you switched the contents of a step (people who are running around excited out of happiness aren’t usually the same people who are running around and rioting). 3. Drawing arrows between the steps is completely meaningless: there’s no such thing as momentum in such an argument. Suggest to the students the name “slippery slope” to describe this type of argument; admit defeat; distribute cookies. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![Duke\_of\_Rat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Duke\_of\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke_of_Rat)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2005, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scott-plaid-stand-up-or-shut-up/310794/467 "2005-07-07T01:21:11Z")
OOOO!!! OOOO!!! ME! ME! Beat the teacher with the bat and take the cookies?? ---
**Author:** ![Uvula\_Donor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/e19adc/32.png) [@Uvula\_Donor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uvula_Donor)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2005, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scott-plaid-stand-up-or-shut-up/310794/468 "2005-07-07T03:17:13Z")
> [@Left Hand of Dorkness](#): > > Here’s my lesson plan. Feedback welcome (especially since I’m going back to school to be an elementary school teacher; I may end up doing a lesson like this in the classroom one day). Clear, imaginative, fun, and memorable. Quite a contrast to the “other lesson plan” posted by the resident dumbass. If all your lesson plans are like that one, **LHoD** , I’d want you teaching my kids, because you’d be the kind of teacher that they remember to _their_ kids. ---
**Author:** ![Excalibre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@Excalibre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Excalibre)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2005, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scott-plaid-stand-up-or-shut-up/310794/469 "2005-07-07T03:50:02Z")
> [@Duke of Rat](#): > > OOOO!!! OOOO!!! ME! ME! > > Beat the teacher with the bat and take the cookies?? Where was that thread about how many five-year-olds you could take on? I’m thinking a class full of determined 9-year-olds all working together could probably handle a teacher. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2005, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scott-plaid-stand-up-or-shut-up/310794/470 "2005-07-07T03:55:38Z")
> [@Uvula Donor](#): > > Clear, imaginative, fun, and memorable. Quite a contrast to the “other lesson plan” posted by the resident dumbass. > > If all your lesson plans are like that one, **LHoD** , I’d want you teaching my kids, because you’d be the kind of teacher that they remember to _their_ kids. **LHoD** , could you do this for second graders? Then we could run it past **Scott** to see if he gets it. ---
**Author:** ![RobuSensei](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/919ad9/32.png) [@RobuSensei](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RobuSensei)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2005, 5:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scott-plaid-stand-up-or-shut-up/310794/471 "2005-07-07T05:49:43Z")
> [@Cervaise](#): > > Based on his political stripes, I wonder if it will make an impression on him to compare his ridiculous self-declarations of triumph to the equally ridiculous spectacle of George Dubya claiming victory as he buggers out of the inarguably unwinnable debacle Iraq will be two or three years from now. Y’know, I never thought of that… It wouldn’t seem out of place for Scott Plaid to have **“MISSION ACCOMPLISHED”** as his sig. (or maybe “MISSION, ACCOMPLISHED”) For the record, I too am a person on the left side of the political spectrum who heartily wishes Scott _wasn’t_ on our side. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2005, 7:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scott-plaid-stand-up-or-shut-up/310794/472 "2005-07-07T07:42:47Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > I’m with **tomndebb** on this one. I’d like to see a bunch more folks sign up for the “questions only in GD” pledge for a week. But isn’t it true that you can debate using questions only? ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2005, 7:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scott-plaid-stand-up-or-shut-up/310794/473 "2005-07-07T07:44:39Z")
Who’d want to? ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2005, 7:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scott-plaid-stand-up-or-shut-up/310794/474 "2005-07-07T07:53:50Z")
Lefty, please be sure to point out to the kids that not everything that looks like slippery slope is a logical fallacy. In its purest form, slippery slope is a list of premises that do not follow from each other _but might individually be true_. What you’re showing the kids is really a list of non sequiturs. Just because B sometimes happens when A, it does not mean that A -\> B. But sometimes things do lead to other things. You don’t want kids to think that, for example, they can inch their way toward danger and scream “slippery slope!” when their parents try to teach them life lessons like not talking to strangers. As well as you did in composing your lesson, I’m confident you can devise an explanation for real slippery slope that they will understand. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2005, 9:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scott-plaid-stand-up-or-shut-up/310794/475 "2005-07-07T09:09:42Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > But isn’t it true that you can debate using questions only? Do you truly believe that? 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Genghis\_Bob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/45deac/32.png) [@Genghis\_Bob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Genghis_Bob)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2005, 11:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scott-plaid-stand-up-or-shut-up/310794/476 "2005-07-07T11:10:09Z")
> [@Sage Rat](#): > > Do you truly believe that? > > 😛 Is it possible he was being self-referentially ironical? ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2005, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scott-plaid-stand-up-or-shut-up/310794/477 "2005-07-07T13:29:59Z")
> [@Genghis Bob](#): > > Is it possible he was being self-referentially ironical? Does it matter? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2005, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scott-plaid-stand-up-or-shut-up/310794/478 "2005-07-07T13:54:02Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > But isn’t it true that you can debate using questions only? Yes, but the “pledge” was more than a promise to only ask questions-- it’s a promise NOT to argue your case, but to simply try to understand the other posters’ cases. A very good debater could still undermine someone’s argument using that method, and that’s part of the point, also! ---
**Author:** ![42fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/4/b487fb/32.png) [@42fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/42fish)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2005, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scott-plaid-stand-up-or-shut-up/310794/479 "2005-07-07T14:09:22Z")
> [@andros](#): > > Does it matter? Are we trying to make this thread turn into a \*Who’s Line \* sketch? ---
**Author:** ![Genghis\_Bob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/45deac/32.png) [@Genghis\_Bob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Genghis_Bob)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2005, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scott-plaid-stand-up-or-shut-up/310794/480 "2005-07-07T14:11:30Z")
> [@42fish](#): > > Are we trying to make this thread turn into a \*Who’s Line \* sketch? Would you \*like \* us to? By the way - are you going to eat that? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scott-plaid-stand-up-or-shut-up/310794.md?page=23) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scott-plaid-stand-up-or-shut-up/310794.md?page=25)