# Scott Plaid, Stand Up or Shut Up **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 2, 2005, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scott-plaid-stand-up-or-shut-up/310794 "2005-07-02T03:22:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 44
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2005, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scott-plaid-stand-up-or-shut-up/310794/861 "2005-07-13T15:13:45Z")
> [@Scott Plaid](#): > > Then why the hell did it go on for many pages about whether a jew could accept jesus as the savior? My guess is because you thought you knew what my arguments were, so you answered them without stopping to read my posts with any degree of care. > [@](#): > > Well, okay then. The answer to your question is that there are no existing records that would allow a reasonable person (much less a jew) to believe in even least detail about jesus. Birthdate, what time he was alive, etc. > > Presumably, the best evidence in favor would be a detailed report from a trusted source, such as an archeology dig, telling of acts preformed by a person matching the description of the christian jesus. (As opposed to multiple other supposed sons of the sun god.) OK. May a reasonable Jew accept as true any historical facts about the existence of Socrates? ---
**Author:** ![stretch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a6a055/32.png) [@stretch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stretch)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2005, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scott-plaid-stand-up-or-shut-up/310794/862 "2005-07-13T15:13:47Z")
> [@Scott Plaid](#): > > The victory speech was not because I was right. That would tie in with what you are saying. > > No, it was because I clearly knew more about the subject, and yet Rick would not admit he was wrong on the issue. and > [@Bricker](#): > > Are you discussing the thread in which I referred to the Bar Kokhba and you didn’t know who he was? The thread in which you insisted the only historical claims about Jesus that a Jew could possibly accept as true would come from a time machine? > > Yes, you were certainly on your game there. Jeez, **Scott** , you really don’t have the vaguest clue do you? \*\*Bricker \*\* knew more than you did about the topic, he had to constantly repost questions attempting to clarify your position, and at the end of it all I learned much more from him than from you. Hate to break it to you, but this means that **Bricker** “won”. He was clear, got his point across, and educated other participants and lurkers. You were confusing, unclear, and made my head hurt. Take this from someone who is not on **Bricker** ’s “side”–being as he’s a religious conservative and I’m an atheistic independent\*. Still, I have to admire **Bricker** ’s willingness to debate someone as totally clueless as you appear to be. I’m more likely to be on your side in a debate, **Scott** , but you do nothing to advance “our” positions–you just make us look bad. Regarding \*\*Scott’\*\*s intelligence; just because you’re educated, doesn’t mean you’re smart. **Scott** , you may very well have gone to college, taught(!) in summer school, etc. However, you come across as an idiot in debates because you’re posts are unclear, not on topic, filled with irritating asides, and mostly unreadable. This in addition to being factually incorrect in many instances. Please, consider that if most of us tell you that you are coming across badly and are not “winning” us over to your side of issues (especially when we start on your side!!!), you may need re-assess your posting style. And quit over-using the [del]stupid[/del] fucking [del] feature. It’s irritating and rarely adds anything to your post. Like many things, moderation is key. - I shouldn’t have to pull out my “not a conservative” card to get you to listen to me, but I think you’ll ignore me otherwise. Who am I kidding? You’re going to ignore me either way. ---
**Author:** ![Crotalus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crotalus/32/41_2.png) [@Crotalus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crotalus)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2005, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scott-plaid-stand-up-or-shut-up/310794/863 "2005-07-13T15:17:04Z")
**Duke of Rat** , I think it’s more a problem of him refusing or being unable to understand, absorb or accept anything that disagrees with his predetermined view. He only sees and uses things that he _thinks_ support his views, and he’s not very good at correctly identifying those. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2005, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scott-plaid-stand-up-or-shut-up/310794/864 "2005-07-13T15:25:12Z")
Uh **stretch**? We kind of gave up trying to help **Scott** about ten pages ago. Pissin’ in the wind and all that. When \*\*Left Hand of Dorkness \*\* bailed we all realized it was a total non-starter. All but **Scott** , that is. ---
**Author:** ![Mojo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Mojo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mojo)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2005, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scott-plaid-stand-up-or-shut-up/310794/865 "2005-07-13T15:34:44Z")
> [@NoClueBoy](#): > > I’m still following this thread out of shear bloody mindedness now. Hell, I’m just following it so that I can sneak in when everyone leasts expects it and win the thread. ---
**Author:** ![stretch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a6a055/32.png) [@stretch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stretch)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2005, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scott-plaid-stand-up-or-shut-up/310794/866 "2005-07-13T15:35:48Z")
> [@Contrapuntal](#): > > Uh **stretch**? We kind of gave up trying to help **Scott** about ten pages ago. Pissin’ in the wind and all that. When \*\*Left Hand of Dorkness \*\* bailed we all realized it was a total non-starter. All but **Scott** , that is. Yeah, but he’s still saying he won the debate with **Bricker**. I want **Bricker** to know that some of us _remember_ the thread and actually got something out of it. Y’know, a little appreciation for **Bricker** , a little bit of explaining things to **Scott**. Since I don’t post from work (I’m home today), I’d rarely get to particpate in threads if I don’t just put in my two cents late in the game. Besides, aren’t we ready for the thread to die? My presence ensures it. ---
**Author:** ![Scott\_Plaid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Scott\_Plaid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scott_Plaid)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2005, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scott-plaid-stand-up-or-shut-up/310794/867 "2005-07-13T15:39:02Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > My guess is because you thought you knew what my arguments were, so you answered them without stopping to read my posts with any degree of care. Let me see if I recall what happened. I claimed I found it funny that any jew could believe in jesus. You asked me for clarification. I explained. You tried, and failed to show how they could believe in jesus after all, after all. Is that right, or do I recall a different discussion? > [@](#): > > May a reasonable Jew accept as true any historical facts about the existence of Socrates? No, a jew, or any other person may not. You see, there is no historical proof. From [wiki](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socrates) : > [@](#): > > The character of Socrates provides an illustration of a historical conundrum. If Socrates ever wrote a single word, it has not survived. As such, the entirety of modern knowledge concerning Socrates must be drawn from a limited number of secondary sources, such as the works of Plato, Aristophanes and Xenophon. Aristophanes was known as a satirist, and so his accounts of Socrates may well be skewed, exaggerated, or totally falsified. Fragmentary evidence also exists from Socrates’ contemporaries. Giannantoni, in his monumental work “Socratis et Socraticorum Reliquiae” collects every scrap of evidence pertaining to Socrates. It includes writers such as Aeschines Socraticus (not the orator); Antisthenes and a number of others who knew Socrates. Plato, following Greek tradition, appears to have attributed his own ideas, theories, and possibly personal traits, to his mentor. Due to the problems inherent in such sources, all information regarding Socrates should be taken as possibly, but not definitely, true. > [@Tim Staab](#): > > **Scott** , You continue to amaze me. You were wrong on the internment issue. You were clearly demonstrated to be wrong. The executive order 9066, which ordered the internment, said that everyone with “foreign-enemy ancestry” was to be interned, not registered aliens and their relatives. It appears I am wrong about wives of aliens being listed under the act. However, I am suspending judgment till I read more on the issue in the bookstore. However, it seems like if the census is responsible for registration of those with Japanese ancestry, then it is still true that registration can lead to round ups. But, look at the sign in the wiki article you linked to. Clearly, while the plan wording of the act would apply only to enemies, the existence of the act itself was used as justification to round up all people of Japanese ancestry. > [@Roosevelt](#): > > I hereby authorize and direct the Secretary of War, and the Military Commanders whom he may from time to time designate, whenever he or any designated Commander deems such action necessary or desirable, to prescribe military areas in such places and of such extent as he or the appropriate Military Commander may determine, from which any or all persons may be excluded, and with respect to which, the right of any person to enter, remain in, or leave shall be subject to whatever restrictions the Secretary of War or the appropriate Military Commander may impose in his discretion. True, he used the word “alien” later in the text, but the order clearly was to give the military all the power they wanted to round people up. [QUOTE=stretch] > [@](#): > > Jeez, **Scott** , you really don’t have the vaguest clue do you? \*\*Bricker \*\* knew more than you did about the topic, he had to constantly repost questions attempting to clarify your position, and at the end of it all I learned much more from him than from you. Tell me, what do you think his position on the subject was? > [@](#): > > And quit over-using the [del]stupid[/del] fucking [del] feature. It’s irritating and rarely adds anything to your post. Like many things, moderation is key. No. For one thing, I can not think of a single time I used it that was not appropriate. Thus, there is no “overuse” Besides, I was the one to suggest it’s existence. By using it, I spread awareness of it. It is a tool like any other, and people should know about it. > [@](#): > > - I shouldn’t have to pull out my “not a conservative” card to get you to listen to me, but I think you’ll ignore me otherwise. Who am I kidding? You’re going to ignore me either way. Where did you get this from. ? I don’t listen to Excalibre, not because I somehow think he is a conservative, but because I just plain don’t like him. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2005, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scott-plaid-stand-up-or-shut-up/310794/868 "2005-07-13T15:45:31Z")
Wow, I’m like a celebrity now–the guy that made everyone give up on **Scott**! Sweet. I’m reading along, because this is bizarre and fascinating, and because people are pretty damned funny. Especially **Scott**. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2005, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scott-plaid-stand-up-or-shut-up/310794/869 "2005-07-13T15:49:27Z")
> [@stretch](#): > > Yeah, but he’s still saying he won the debate with **Bricker**. I want **Bricker** to know that some of us _remember_ the thread and actually got something out of it. Y’know, a little appreciation for **Bricker** , a little bit of explaining things to **Scott**. And I do appreciate it. Thanks much… ---
**Author:** ![CandidGamera](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/candidgamera/32/2878_2.png) [@CandidGamera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CandidGamera)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2005, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scott-plaid-stand-up-or-shut-up/310794/870 "2005-07-13T15:50:47Z")
> [@Scott Plaid](#): > > No. For one thing, I can not think of a single time I used it that was not appropriate. **Thus, there is no “overuse”** Besides, I was the one to suggest it’s existence. By using it, I spread awareness of it. It is a tool like any other, and people should know about it. [del]That is the most singularly asinine generalization I’ve ever seen emerge from the nib of your digital “pen”, and considering your fetish-like predilection for singularly asinine generalizations, that’s quite an achievement indeed. Anything can be overused - moderation in all things is the key. Perhaps you might try using the del tag less, and your brain a little more.[/del] Bull. ---
**Author:** ![Genghis\_Bob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/45deac/32.png) [@Genghis\_Bob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Genghis_Bob)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2005, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scott-plaid-stand-up-or-shut-up/310794/871 "2005-07-13T15:55:57Z")
Holy crap, my lawn chair just collapsed on me. Rusted clean through from exposure to the elements. And my ice is melted. And I’m out of beer. Mods, please close this thread! ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2005, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scott-plaid-stand-up-or-shut-up/310794/872 "2005-07-13T15:59:57Z")
> [@Scott Plaid](#): > > Let me see if I recall what happened. I claimed I found it funny that any jew could believe in jesus. You asked me for clarification. I explained. You tried, and failed to show how they could believe in jesus after all, after all. Is that right, or do I recall a different discussion? I was not a party to the discussion you recall. The phrase “believe in Jesus” is hopelessly mired in ambiguity. A person may believe in the historical existence of Jesus without remotely accepting any supernatural claims about him as true. This was one of the problems in that disucssion: you kept returning to the savior issue, when I was simply exploring whether, historically, there were any claims about Jesus that could reasonably be believed. You have done more in THIS thread to answer that question than you managed in the original thread. For this, I thank you. On accepting historical facts about Socrates: > [@](#): > > No, a jew, or any other person may not. You see, there is no historical proof. From [wiki](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socrates) : So, as between Socrates and Jesus, which would say is more established, historically speaking? ---
**Author:** ![Scott\_Plaid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Scott\_Plaid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scott_Plaid)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2005, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scott-plaid-stand-up-or-shut-up/310794/873 "2005-07-13T16:02:28Z")
> [@Genghis Bob](#): > > Mods, please close this thread! Mods, please do not close this thread. I have asked Rick for a clarification of what he believed that thread was about. I have also stated that I think that the vast majority of discussion I have with him end with his burying his head in the sand in regards to holes in his logic. (No, I don’t do that. I try and show how I was logical to hold a certain position in the first place.). I am still awaiting a reply, or cites. ---
**Author:** ![stretch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a6a055/32.png) [@stretch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stretch)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2005, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scott-plaid-stand-up-or-shut-up/310794/874 "2005-07-13T16:04:58Z")
> [@Scott Plaid](#): > > Let me see if I recall what happened. I claimed I found it funny that any jew could believe in jesus. You asked me for clarification. I explained. You tried, and failed to show how they could believe in jesus after all, after all. Is that right, or do I recall a different discussion? ::head explodes:: I believe you recall the thread, but if that’s what you got out of your debate with \*\*Bricker \*\* you are [del]stupid[/del] [del]really stupid[/del] [del]really, really, stupid[/del] a fucking idiot. PS: Thanks for not replying to any of the actual points I made. And the [del] feature can be overused as illustrated many times above. ---
**Author:** ![Scott\_Plaid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Scott\_Plaid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scott_Plaid)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2005, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scott-plaid-stand-up-or-shut-up/310794/875 "2005-07-13T16:05:13Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > So, as between Socrates and Jesus, which would say is more established, historically speaking? :dubious: I would have to say neither of them. ---
**Author:** ![Genghis\_Bob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/45deac/32.png) [@Genghis\_Bob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Genghis_Bob)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2005, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scott-plaid-stand-up-or-shut-up/310794/876 "2005-07-13T16:06:06Z")
> [@Scott Plaid](#): > > Mods, please do not close this thread. I have asked Rick for a clarification of what he believed that thread was about. I have also stated that I think that the vast majority of discussion I have with him end with his burying his head in the sand in regards to holes in his logic. (No, I don’t do that. I try and show how I was logical to hold a certain position in the first place.). I am still awaiting a reply, or cites. Don’t worry **Scott** , nobody’s gonna close this thread on my say-so. . . . but perhaps a time-out so I can run to the loo and not miss anything? ---
**Author:** ![Ponder\_Stibbons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ponder_stibbons/32/343_2.png) [@Ponder\_Stibbons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ponder_Stibbons)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2005, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scott-plaid-stand-up-or-shut-up/310794/877 "2005-07-13T16:08:26Z")
> [@Scott Plaid](#): > > Mods, please do not close this thread. It’s not often you see a pittee say _that_! I must say, **Scott** , I am impressed with your composure in the face of such an overwhelming onslaught. I don’t think I have ever seen anyone get his ass handed to him so thoroughly and still come back to say “Thank you sir, may I have another?” Wheeeeeeeeeeee!!! ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2005, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scott-plaid-stand-up-or-shut-up/310794/878 "2005-07-13T16:08:26Z")
> [@Scott Plaid](#): > > :dubious: I would have to say neither of them. There you go, **Bricker**. They’re tied. For second. Guess who’s first? ---
**Author:** ![Scott\_Plaid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Scott\_Plaid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scott_Plaid)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2005, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scott-plaid-stand-up-or-shut-up/310794/879 "2005-07-13T16:08:50Z")
> [@stretch](#): > > PS: Thanks for not replying to any of the actual points I made. And the [del] feature can be overused as illustrated many times above. First, your point that I am hard to read has been addressed already. I admitted I need to be much more clear. Second, I am not saying it is not possible to overuse the feature. Instead, I am saying that I, personally, have never used it gratuitously. ---
**Author:** ![Uvula\_Donor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/e19adc/32.png) [@Uvula\_Donor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uvula_Donor)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2005, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scott-plaid-stand-up-or-shut-up/310794/880 "2005-07-13T16:14:42Z")
> [@Scott Plaid](#): > > I am saying that I, personally, have never used it gratuitously. BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! You’re a real fuckstick. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scott-plaid-stand-up-or-shut-up/310794.md?page=43) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scott-plaid-stand-up-or-shut-up/310794.md?page=45)