# Scott Ritter claims US planning June attack on Iran, Iraq election manipulated **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 23, 2005, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scott-ritter-claims-us-planning-june-attack-on-iran-iraq-election-manipulated/291540 "2005-02-23T15:42:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2005, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scott-ritter-claims-us-planning-june-attack-on-iran-iraq-election-manipulated/291540/1 "2005-02-23T15:42:58Z")
Scott Ritter dropped a couple of [bombs](http://electroniciraq.net/news/1881.shtml) during a talk on monday. > [@](#): > > Scott Ritter, appearing with journalist Dahr Jamail yesterday in Washington State, dropped two shocking bombshells in a talk delivered to a packed house in Olympia’s Capitol Theater. The ex-Marine turned UNSCOM weapons inspector said that George W. Bush has “signed off” on plans to bomb Iran in June 2005, and claimed the U.S. manipulated the results of the recent Jan. 30 elections in Iraq. > > \ > > The principal theme of Scott Ritter’s talk was Americans’ duty to protect the U.S. Constitution by taking action to bring an end to the illegal war in Iraq. But in passing, the former UNSCOM weapons inspector stunned his listeners with two pronouncements. Ritter said plans for a June attack on Iran have been submitted to President George W. Bush, and that the president has approved them. He also asserted that knowledgeable sources say U.S. officials “cooked” the results of the Jan. 30 elections in Iraq. > > On Iran, Ritter said that President George W. Bush has received and signed off on orders for an aerial attack on Iran planned for June 2005. Its purported goal is the destruction of Iran’s alleged program to develop nuclear weapons, but Ritter said neoconservatives in the administration also expected that the attack would set in motion a chain of events leading to regime change in the oil-rich nation of 70 million – a possibility Ritter regards with the greatest skepticism. > > The former Marine also said that the Jan. 30 elections, which George W. Bush has called “a turning point in the history of Iraq, a milestone in the advance of freedom,” were not so free after all. Ritter said that U.S. authorities in Iraq had manipulated the results in order to reduce the percentage of the vote received by the United Iraqi Alliance from 56% to 48%. > > Asked by UFPPC’s Ted Nation about this shocker, Ritter said an official involved in the manipulation was the source, and that this would soon be reported by a Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist in a major metropolitan magazine – an obvious allusion to New Yorker reporter Seymour M. Hersh. We’ll have to watch Hersh’s column, I guess. Anyway, I’m sure the Bushies around here will mock and ridicule Ritter just like they did he was going around saying that Iraq did not have any WMDs. But since Ritter was RIGHT about that and Bush was proven to be a liar, why shouldn’t we believe Ritter now? Anyway here it is. Are we going to bomb Iran? Did we fix the elections in Iraq? I don’t find either allegation to be exactly incredible. What say you? ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2005, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scott-ritter-claims-us-planning-june-attack-on-iran-iraq-election-manipulated/291540/2 "2005-02-23T15:46:02Z")
Clearly, Ritter is more honest than Bush. But he doesn’t have that big spin machine backing him. ---
**Author:** ![Neurotik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/91b2a8/32.png) [@Neurotik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neurotik)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2005, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scott-ritter-claims-us-planning-june-attack-on-iran-iraq-election-manipulated/291540/3 "2005-02-23T15:48:46Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > I don’t find either allegation to be exactly incredible. What say you? Incredible? No. It wouldn’t surprise me if Ritter turned out to be correct. But, at least Ritter was a UN Weapons Inspector, and so he had some first hand knowledge of what was going on in Iraq. I don’t think he has nearly as much credibility on the internal machinations of the Bush Administration. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2005, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scott-ritter-claims-us-planning-june-attack-on-iran-iraq-election-manipulated/291540/4 "2005-02-23T15:54:32Z")
> [@Neurotik](#): > > Incredible? No. It wouldn’t surprise me if Ritter turned out to be correct. > > But, at least Ritter was a UN Weapons Inspector, and so he had some first hand knowledge of what was going on in Iraq. I don’t think he has nearly as much credibility on the internal machinations of the Bush Administration. He claims he got the info from the inside. We’ll see. I’m particularly intrigued by the allusion to Hersh. Hersh has said that he’s been getting good info from Bush insiders who don’t like what the Neocons are doing but don’t want to risk their careers (or risk Plame-style retaliation against their families) by going public. Somebody tipping off Ritter might not be so implausible. ---
**Author:** ![Patty\_O\_Furniture](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/96bed5/32.png) [@Patty\_O\_Furniture](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Patty_O_Furniture)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2005, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scott-ritter-claims-us-planning-june-attack-on-iran-iraq-election-manipulated/291540/5 "2005-02-23T15:56:48Z")
I just wish that Bush would come out and say that he has “no plans on his desk” for attacking Iran, just like he said about Iraq back in May of 2002 (less than four months before he told the U.N. that we will “act on our own” if resolutions are not enforced, and less than five months before Congress is asked to authorize an Iraq attack). That would sure make me feel, well… something. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2005, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scott-ritter-claims-us-planning-june-attack-on-iran-iraq-election-manipulated/291540/6 "2005-02-23T15:57:08Z")
Ritter will gain a lot of political capital if he is right. On the other hand, if he is just speculating, he has just joined the administration’s dance for “who can spin?” faster and farther. Given that his legitimate debunking of the administration lies has earned him their undying enmity, he is certainly not getting his information from _them_. On the other hand, he _could_ be getting his information _either_ from a friend who is still “inside” _or_ from an unfriend who has been given the task to make him look foolish. In any event, while we can all speculate on what might happen and how good or bad such events might be, there is no reason to actually include Ritter’s claims in the discussion since he is unlikely to have any more _accurate_ information than the rest of us. ---
**Author:** ![Malodorous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e47774/32.png) [@Malodorous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malodorous)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2005, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scott-ritter-claims-us-planning-june-attack-on-iran-iraq-election-manipulated/291540/7 "2005-02-23T16:30:34Z")
> [@](#): > > On Iran, Ritter said that President George W. Bush has received and signed off on orders for an aerial attack on Iran planned for June 2005. Does the president really sign off for military actions months ahead of time? I can imagine that the Pentagon has developed plans and Bush has seen them, but I can’t imagine that anything approching a “final go ahead” is given until a few days before the event. Also an attack on Iran would need either a nod from congress or some sort of evidence of a “clear and present” danger, right. It would be hard to say that the danger is “clear and present” and then delay the strike 3 months. As for the second part of Ritter’s story, there’s no real way to know without further evidence, but given the unlikelyness of his first claim, I’ll remain skeptical till further evidence is shown. ---
**Author:** ![Homebrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Homebrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Homebrew)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2005, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scott-ritter-claims-us-planning-june-attack-on-iran-iraq-election-manipulated/291540/8 "2005-02-23T16:31:14Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > In any event, while we can all speculate on what might happen and how good or bad such events might be, there is no reason to actually include Ritter’s claims in the discussion since he is unlikely to have any more _accurate_ information than the rest of us. Do you mean to imply that you have contacts who work within the Administration? Because unless you do, I think it is reasonable to believe Ritter, due to his previous work and placement, may indeed have more accurate information than you or I. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2005, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scott-ritter-claims-us-planning-june-attack-on-iran-iraq-election-manipulated/291540/9 "2005-02-23T17:10:04Z")
> [@](#): > > I think it is reasonable to believe Ritter, due to his previous work and placement, may indeed have more accurate information than you or I. Why? He could be just as easily fed bad information as good. The assumption that he would have better information on future events that would have been planned after he fell out with the administration requires us to believe that he not only has a good source inside the administration (who continues to work for the administration while sabotaging its efforts), but that that good source has not been compromised and is now being fed bad information. Had Ritter made a statement that he had seen information two or three years ago suggesting that a specific plan was being carried out to destabilize Iran and he can point to the events over the last year that conform to that overall plan, I would agree that it seems that he was presenting knowledge he, himself, had acquired and analyzed. To name a specific date when a particular action will occur requires much more recent information–information that a _prior_ position will not provide him. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2005, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scott-ritter-claims-us-planning-june-attack-on-iran-iraq-election-manipulated/291540/10 "2005-02-23T17:11:53Z")
I say wait until a real news reporter weighs in on this. I have no doubt that we have all sorts of contingency plans for bombing Iran. How much can Bush do w/o Congressional approval? I don’t see how dropping a few bombs on nuclear sites would lead to a toppling of the regime. In fact, it would seem that just the opposite would unfold. Have there been claims by the United Iraqi Alliance of voting irregularities per Ritter’s assertion? A quick google search didn’t turn up anything except some references to FreeRepublic. If the party itself isn’t raising a stink, why should we believe Ritter’s info? Maybe someone with better googling skills can turn up something… ---
**Author:** ![mack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b19c9b/32.png) [@mack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mack)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2005, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scott-ritter-claims-us-planning-june-attack-on-iran-iraq-election-manipulated/291540/11 "2005-02-23T18:23:45Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > I don’t see how dropping a few bombs on nuclear sites would lead to a toppling of the regime. According to [Seymour Hersh](http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/?050124fa_fact) (a real reporter), this is how hawks in the Pentagon see it: > [@](#): > > The immediate goals of the attacks would be to destroy, or at least temporarily derail, Iran’s ability to go nuclear. But there are other, equally purposeful, motives at work. The government consultant told me that the hawks in the Pentagon, in private discussions, have been urging a limited attack on Iran because they believe it could lead to a toppling of the religious leadership. “Within the soul of Iran there is a struggle between secular nationalists and reformers, on the one hand, and, on the other hand, the fundamentalist Islamic movement,” the consultant told me. “The minute the aura of invincibility which the mullahs enjoy is shattered, and with it the ability to hoodwink the West, the Iranian regime will collapse”—like the former Communist regimes in Romania, East Germany, and the Soviet Union. Rumsfeld and Wolfowitz share that belief, he said. > [@John Mace](#): > > In fact, it would seem that just the opposite would unfold. You’re not alone. More Hersh: > [@](#): > > “The idea that an American attack on Iran’s nuclear facilities would produce a popular uprising is extremely illinformed,” said Flynt Leverett, a Middle East scholar who worked on the National Security Council in the Bush Administration. “You have to understand that the nuclear ambition in Iran is supported across the political spectrum, and Iranians will perceive attacks on these sites as attacks on their ambitions to be a major regional player and a modern nation that’s technologically sophisticated.” Leverett, who is now a senior fellow at the Saban Center for Middle East Policy, at the Brookings Institution, warned that an American attack, if it takes place, “will produce an Iranian backlash against the United States and a rallying around the regime.” ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2005, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scott-ritter-claims-us-planning-june-attack-on-iran-iraq-election-manipulated/291540/12 "2005-02-23T18:31:20Z")
In Bush’s own words, the idea that we are planning to attack Iraq is “ridiculous.” Of course, “[h]aving said that, all options are on the table.” ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2005, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scott-ritter-claims-us-planning-june-attack-on-iran-iraq-election-manipulated/291540/13 "2005-02-23T18:49:27Z")
I think you meant Iran. Iran/Iraq, who can tell the difference anyway? 🙂 Yeah, I heard that quote yesterday-- it was, shall we say, awkward? But it IS true that we never take any option off the table in the early stages of a negotiation. That’s S.O.P. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2005, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scott-ritter-claims-us-planning-june-attack-on-iran-iraq-election-manipulated/291540/14 "2005-02-23T19:01:08Z")
Speaking of S.O.P. I think we should investigate if Bush is assembling a O.S.P. for Iran… ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2005, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scott-ritter-claims-us-planning-june-attack-on-iran-iraq-election-manipulated/291540/15 "2005-02-23T19:07:00Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > I think you meant Iran. Iran/Iraq, who can tell the difference anyway? 🙂 > > Yeah, I heard that quote yesterday-- it was, shall we say, awkward? But it IS true that we never take any option off the table in the early stages of a negotiation. That’s S.O.P. Yes, thank you very much. It was me who thought attacking Iraq was ridiculous. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2005, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scott-ritter-claims-us-planning-june-attack-on-iran-iraq-election-manipulated/291540/16 "2005-02-23T19:07:58Z")
Wasn’t that claim made by Hersh in the linked article-- intelligence gathering by the Pentagon rather than the CIA? ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2005, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scott-ritter-claims-us-planning-june-attack-on-iran-iraq-election-manipulated/291540/17 "2005-02-23T20:31:47Z")
First of all, the Pentagon SHOULD be drawing up detailed plans for bombing Iran’s nuclear facilities, plans for raids to destroy Iran’s nuclear facilities, plans for a leadership decapitation, plans for a general invasion of Iran. The more detailed those plans are, the better off everyone will be…including the Iranians. Realistic plans should make clear how risky those plans are, and how likely they are to succeed, and what resources would be needed to make them succeed. The job of the pentagon is to provide options for the president. We should have pretty detailed plans for any eventuallity. Invading Iran won’t be nearly as easy as invading Iraq. You know it, I know it, the Pentagon knows it, Rumsfeld knows it, Cheny knows it, and they are certainly going to make sure that Bush knows it. I’ve just got to wonder about all these “leaked” reports. Who is leaking them? Disgruntled Pentagon/Bush administration people? Or are these authorized leaks, designed to send a message to, I presume, the Iranians? Remember Nixon’s “madman” strategy? Convince the Iranians that Bush is crazy enough to start a war if they don’t negotiate with the Europeans? Maybe that’s too baroque for the Bush team, but we really shouldn’t take all these supposed leaks at face value. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2005, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scott-ritter-claims-us-planning-june-attack-on-iran-iraq-election-manipulated/291540/18 "2005-02-23T20:38:16Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > Invading Iran won’t be nearly as easy as invading Iraq. You know it, I know it, the Pentagon knows it, Rumsfeld knows it, Cheny knows it, and they are certainly going to make sure that Bush knows it. Even assuming that they do, is there any indication that knowledge of such risks will influence their decision-making any? These are, after all, the same guys who gave us the OSP and their wonderful cherry-picking of intel re: Iraq. ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2005, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scott-ritter-claims-us-planning-june-attack-on-iran-iraq-election-manipulated/291540/19 "2005-02-23T21:48:22Z")
This is ridiculous. The U.S. has publicly stated that there is no plan to invade Iran. But Ritter says we will be bombing Iran in June. :rolleyes: Let’s say the U.S. does _not_ invade Iran. Given that it was just a prediction by a (more-or-less) private individual, it won’t even be newsworthy. Let’s say the U.S. _does_ invade Iran. This means the president & State Department have told a blatant _lie_, and the Democrats, media, and every political rival/enemy will relentlessly pound on him for years to come. There is a huge difference between giving an _inaccurate prediction_ and telling a _bold-faced lie_. With this in mind, rational minds will undoubtedly conclude Ritter is in error. ---
**Author:** ![vibrotronica](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/a9a28c/32.png) [@vibrotronica](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vibrotronica)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2005, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scott-ritter-claims-us-planning-june-attack-on-iran-iraq-election-manipulated/291540/20 "2005-02-23T21:52:46Z")
Well, we all know they wouldn’t lie about subjects as serious as war! Not this administration! Heavens no! [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scott-ritter-claims-us-planning-june-attack-on-iran-iraq-election-manipulated/291540.md?page=2)