# Scott Walker is in **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [July 13, 2015, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scott-walker-is-in/725052 "2015-07-13T13:52:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2015, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scott-walker-is-in/725052/41 "2015-07-13T22:08:56Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > It’s not the “people hate unions” it’s that **public sector** unions shouldn’t even exist. The normal back and forth at the negotiating table between management and workers doesn’t exist with public sector unions. Instead it’s an unholy alliance of workers/voters electing public officials who pay them back with salary and benefits that bankrupt the government. It’s a win-win for the public sector unions and for the politicians but it’s a bad deal for the taxpayers who have to foot the bill. > > The non-public sector unions aren’t “hated” by most, but they do need to be reigned in from time to time. But public sector unions are a completely different animal. > > As to Walker’s popularity, I’ve heard this story a few times now. He’s always very unpopular, according to Liberals. Yet, whenever there’s an election he seems to win, even the recall efforts that were attempted. Good Lord. You really have no idea how it works, do you? Speaking for my state, we have a bipartisan Civil Service Commission that negotiates with the unions, however the wages are pretty much set by the state beforehand. The legislature does not get involved and thus no potential for collusion between legislators and unions. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2015, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scott-walker-is-in/725052/42 "2015-07-13T22:09:52Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > But it is true that Trump is the only candidate who seems to be clear in his position on illegal immigration: He’s against it. The rest of them (and the Democrats most of the time) are an incoherent mess when they are pressed to explain their own statements about immigration. Jeb Bush’s position on the issue is a complete mess. I have no idea what he wants to do on immigration at all. Don’t you think a complicated issue like immigration needs more than a “Its bad” stance? Trump’s stance is clear because its simple and easy, but what it is certainly not is thought out and comprehensive. For instance, what does he plan on doing with kids of illegal immigrants? Round them up and drop them off at the borders? Also, what about kids born here of illegal immigrants? The 14th Amendment states they are citizens, is he planning on deporting just their parents and leaving the kids here alone? Or is he going to personally revoke their citizenship? And about this wall he wants to build and Mexico to pay for, how’s he going to do that? He is going to go to war with Mexico if they don’t pony up the cash? Is he going to stop buying things from Mexico, thereby making things here more expensive? Its easy to be clear on a position when you have no nuance and so far no explanation with how you’re going to get things done except for “We’ll do it!” That’s like saying you’ll lower the crime rate by lowering it ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2015, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scott-walker-is-in/725052/43 "2015-07-13T22:21:56Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > As to Walker’s popularity, I’ve heard this story a few times now. He’s always very unpopular, according to Liberals. Yet, whenever there’s an election he seems to win, even the recall efforts that were attempted. While I certainly don’t want Walker to be president, or even Governor of Wisconsin, I’ve got to agree with this statement. Since 2010, Walker has won the governorship three times. I think he’s a very serious candidate for the nomination. ---
**Author:** ![DinoR](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dinor/32/2821_2.png) [@DinoR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DinoR)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2015, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scott-walker-is-in/725052/44 "2015-07-13T22:39:10Z")
> [@BlankSlate](#): > > Kasich would buck that trend should he jump in. > [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Still waiting to hear from Kasich and Gilmore. The [“leaks”](http://www.politico.com/story/2015/06/john-kasich-2016-presidential-bid-119517.html) from his advisers have him announcing July 21 in Columbus. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2015, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scott-walker-is-in/725052/45 "2015-07-13T22:51:55Z")
> [@It\_s\_Not\_Rocket\_Surgery](#): > > Cite? I’m a Federal worker and union member (former local president) and our union has exactly the same negotiating structure and back-and-forth any union in any other sector. > > This sounds to me like a modified version of the “government workers are incompetent/evil/on the take” canard. We don’t have any higher of a percentage of bad employees than workers in private industry, no matter what Fox News tells you. The difference between public employee unions and private sector unions is the player base. [Joe Klein writes:](http://swampland.time.com/2011/02/18/wisconsin-the-hemlock-revolution/#ixzz1EPFukvGZ) > [@](#): > > Public employees unions are an interesting hybrid. Industrial unions are organized against the might and greed of ownership. \*\*Public employees unions are organized against the might and greed…of the public? \*\*Despite their questionable provenance, public unions can serve an important social justice role, guaranteeing that a great many underpaid workers–school bus drivers, janitors (outside of New York City), home health care workers–won’t be too severely underpaid. That role will be kept intact in Wisconsin. In any given negotiation, I’m rooting for the union to win the highest base rates of pay possible…and for management to win the least restrictive work rules and guidelines governing how much truly creative public employees can be paid. (my bold) The union negotiators represent the union, and the local governments represent the taxpayers from whom the money is to be paid. The union is able to lobby the local government with money extracted from concessions of the local government in a twisted incestuous way. And with defined benefit pension plans, the cost of such concessions are foisted upon future taxpayers many years down the road. The adversarial nature fo the relationship between management and labor is not the same in the case of public sector unions. On top of that, public sector unions operate in areas where the government has a virtual monopoly to act. In these areas, the workers charged with performing government services can hold hostage those that depend on those services with no recourse. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2015, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scott-walker-is-in/725052/46 "2015-07-13T23:26:29Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > When did Trump ever talk about wealth inequality? When he proposed a wealth tax. > [@](#): > > “By my calculations, 1 percent of Americans, who control 90 percent of the wealth in this country, would be affected by my plan,” Trump said. > > “The other 99 percent of the people would get deep reductions in their federal income taxes,” he said. ---
**Author:** ![Nema98](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/d2c977/32.png) [@Nema98](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nema98)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2015, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scott-walker-is-in/725052/47 "2015-07-14T00:02:12Z")
Better than the likes of Jindal, Cruz, Kasich and others, but Walker is hardly the most moderate in the race. He is not more moderate than Bush or Pataki. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2015, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scott-walker-is-in/725052/48 "2015-07-14T01:07:31Z")
> [@tullsterx](#): > > Yes, Scott Walker is popular nationally BECAUSE he is unpopular in Wisconsin. It’s an inverse relationship. The more Wisconsin’s liberal public-sector unions whine about Scott Walker, the more popular he gets nationally. Evidently not as unpopular as you think. He’s won three elections in Wisconsin. ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2015, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scott-walker-is-in/725052/49 "2015-07-14T01:12:14Z")
> [@Nema98](#): > > Better than the likes of Jindal, Cruz, Kasich and others, but Walker is hardly the most moderate in the race. He is not more moderate than Bush or Pataki. 😕 Why on Earth would anyone consider Walker a moderate? If anything he is by far the most conservative of the bunch. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2015, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scott-walker-is-in/725052/50 "2015-07-14T01:15:52Z")
Better Know A Candidate: Scott Walker: > **[Candidate Profile: Scott Walker](https://www.theonion.com/candidate-profile-scott-walker-1819592257)** > > Wisconsin governor Scott Walker formally announced Monday that he will run for the Republican nomination in the 2016 presidential election, bringing one of the frontrunners in early polls officially into the race. Here are some key facts to know... ---
**Author:** ![tullsterx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e9bcb4/32.png) [@tullsterx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tullsterx)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2015, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scott-walker-is-in/725052/51 "2015-07-14T03:03:01Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Evidently not as unpopular as you think. He’s won three elections in Wisconsin. That helps too! ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2015, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scott-walker-is-in/725052/52 "2015-07-14T03:53:52Z")
[Walker stole his logo from America’s Best Eyewear.](http://www.addictinginfo.org/2015/07/13/scott-walker-steals-campaign-logo-from-eyeglass-company-hilarity-ensues-screenshots/) ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2015, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scott-walker-is-in/725052/53 "2015-07-14T04:05:10Z")
Walker will be Jeb’s running mate. ---
**Author:** ![tullsterx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e9bcb4/32.png) [@tullsterx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tullsterx)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2015, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scott-walker-is-in/725052/54 "2015-07-14T04:05:34Z")
Somewhere, Scott Walker is laughing at this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2015, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scott-walker-is-in/725052/55 "2015-07-14T12:46:13Z")
> [@tullsterx](#): > > Somewhere, Scott Walker is laughing at this thread. Boy you _really_ must think Scott Walker doesn’t have much going on right now. [You keep saying this.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=18515373&postcount=11). ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Lowry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Sam\_Lowry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Lowry)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2015, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scott-walker-is-in/725052/56 "2015-07-14T14:37:22Z")
> [@pkbites](#): > > 😕 > > Why on Earth would anyone consider Walker a moderate? If anything he is by far the most conservative of the bunch. He’s not the most conservative, but nearly so. From [FiveThirtyEight’s analysis](http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/scott-walker-wants-to-cure-his-party-of-its-weakness-for-moderates/), Cruz is the most conservative, then Huckabee, then Santorum and Walker are tied. That doesn’t mean he won’t win. More moderate candidates were chosen in the Republican primaries the last two times, maybe Republicans will try something different this time. > [@magellan01](#): > > Evidently not as unpopular as you think. He’s won three elections in Wisconsin. He did win a fairly decisive victory in his first election in 2010. But the second election he won was the recall election for him in 2012. It reflects well on his popularity that he won and was able to stay in office, but reflects less well on his popularity that a recall election happened. His third winning election in 2014 was a toss-up race for most of it, with the polling not sure of who was going to win. So I don’t know if he can be called unpopular, but I don’t think he could be called popular either. If I knew literally nothing else about him other than the results of his elections, I don’t know if I would pick him as a winning presidential candidate. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2015, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scott-walker-is-in/725052/57 "2015-07-14T15:59:15Z")
> [@Sam\_Lowry](#): > > He did win a fairly decisive victory in his first election in 2010. But the second election he won was the recall election for him in 2012. It reflects well on his popularity that he won and was able to stay in office, but reflects less well on his popularity that a recall election happened. His third winning election in 2014 was a toss-up race for most of it, with the polling not sure of who was going to win. > > So I don’t know if he can be called unpopular, but I don’t think he could be called popular either. If I knew literally nothing else about him other than the results of his elections, I don’t know if I would pick him as a winning presidential candidate. True, but I think you need to take into account that there is a group fervently opposed to him. The fact that he was able to withstand everything that the liberal left and the labor unions threw at him—and win—in what is usually reliably a blue state is pretty remarkable. The recall vote was not so much the masses rising up against him but the teachers unions and the left trying desperately to get him out and undo his good work. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2015, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scott-walker-is-in/725052/58 "2015-07-14T16:32:44Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > The fact that he was able to withstand everything that the liberal left and the labor unions threw at him—and win—in what is usually reliably a blue state is pretty remarkable. As much as it pains me to say this (being a liberal who grew up in Wisconsin)…I don’t think that Wisconsin can be termed “reliably a blue state”, and that’s probably been the case for a while. Walker’s predecessor, Doyle, was a Democrat, and served two terms, but the governorship was held by Republicans for 16 years before that. One of the state’s two U.S. Senate seats has been held by a Republican for 26 of the last 34 years. And, five of the eight seats in the House are currently held by Republicans. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2015, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scott-walker-is-in/725052/59 "2015-07-14T18:12:24Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > As much as it pains me to say this (being a liberal who grew up in Wisconsin)…I don’t think that Wisconsin can be termed “reliably a blue state”, and that’s probably been the case for a while. > > Walker’s predecessor, Doyle, was a Democrat, and served two terms, but the governorship was held by Republicans for 16 years before that. One of the state’s two U.S. Senate seats has been held by a Republican for 26 of the last 34 years. And, five of the eight seats in the House are currently held by Republicans. Thanks for the facts. I was just going by what I recall hearing both during Walker’s elections and during Presidential elections. Ignorance fought. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2015, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scott-walker-is-in/725052/60 "2015-07-14T19:01:52Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Thanks for the facts. I was just going by what I recall hearing both during Walker’s elections and during Presidential elections. Ignorance fought. The state has typically voted Democratic in recent presidential elections, so there is at least some truth to that part of it. Madison is certainly a liberal bastion, and urban Milwaukee (which is 40% black and 17% Hispanic) tends to vote Democratic, as well. But, most of the rest of the state seems to be pretty staunchly conservative these days. Anecdotally, when I go back to Green Bay to visit my parents, it definitely seems like Fox News Nation up there. My parents, and a few of my friends who still live up there, are liberals, and they bemoan the feeling that they’re found themselves surrounded by arch-conservatives. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scott-walker-is-in/725052.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scott-walker-is-in/725052.md?page=4)