# Scott Walker recall takes an unexpected turn. **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [November 29, 2011, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scott-walker-recall-takes-an-unexpected-turn/604482 "2011-11-29T19:45:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2011, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scott-walker-recall-takes-an-unexpected-turn/604482/1 "2011-11-29T19:45:07Z")
That lefty rag, [The Nation](http://www.thenation.com/blog/164828/wisconsin-recall-drive-surpasses-300000-signatures-rural-counties-turn-against-anti-labo) has done an analysis on the signature collecting so far in Wisconsin’s governor recall effort and has found that: > [@](#): > > The first counties to approach their goals for the entire recall drive have been rural ones – all of which send at least some Republicans to the legislature. > > Indeed, a number of counties that backed Walker in 2010 are leading the pack when it comes to producing recall signatures. > > In Columbia County, where Walker won 52 percent of the vote last year, more than 10,033 voters have signed recall petitions – well over 45 percent of the total gubernatorial turnout of 2010. > > In Pierce County, where Walker got 53 percent of the vote last year, more than 4,700 voters have signed recall petitions – well over 25 percent of the total gubernatorial turnout of 2010. > > In Oneida County, where Walker took 55 percent of the vote last year, almost 3,700 voters have signed recall petitions – well over 20 percent of the total gubernatorial turnout of 2010. . The reason for this unexpectedly large rural response, according to The Nation: > [@](#): > > Surveys of school administrators across the state show that the vast majority of the state’s school districts have had to make cuts, and are anticipating even deeper cuts, as a result of the governor’s policies. Communities in every corner of Wisconsin have been forced to open discussions about closing schools. Just last week, an advisory committee that has been meeting regularly since the summer to identify potential budgets cuts for the Sauk Prairie School District (north of Madison) voted to recommend that the school board close an elementary school. Could it this be the beginning of the end of the Tea Party madness? Will they all now learn that cutting taxes and services will not signal the return of the 50’s social values but instead lead to less money and less services? Or will all the Tea Partiers in every state have to live through less money and less services to understand exactly what that means? ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2011, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scott-walker-recall-takes-an-unexpected-turn/604482/2 "2011-11-29T20:44:49Z")
> [@Biggirl](#): > > Could it this be the beginning of the end of the Tea Party madness? Will they all now learn that cutting taxes and services will not signal the return of the 50’s social values but instead lead to less money and less services? Or will all the Tea Partiers in every state have to live through less money and less services to understand exactly what that means? There is a soft economy right now. That means that spending has to be prioritized in government since revenue is down. The vast majority of schools everywhere in the country have had to make cuts. Now, these have been deeper in certain places, and I think there are policy differences and local conditions that can account for this. But your simpleheaded analysis doesn’t account for any of this, and the _Nation_ doesn’t account for it either. It’s just policies -\> cuts -\> signatures and maybe -\> recall. I don’t think it is nearly as simple as that. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2011, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scott-walker-recall-takes-an-unexpected-turn/604482/3 "2011-11-29T23:26:54Z")
Maybe they want cuts but not on the stuff they like… ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2011, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scott-walker-recall-takes-an-unexpected-turn/604482/4 "2011-11-30T00:19:19Z")
> [@Mr.Moto](#): > > There is a soft economy right now. That means that spending has to be prioritized in government since revenue is down. > > The vast majority of schools everywhere in the country have had to make cuts. Now, these have been deeper in certain places, and I think there are policy differences and local conditions that can account for this. > > But your simpleheaded analysis doesn’t account for any of this, and the _Nation_ doesn’t account for it either. It’s just policies -\> cuts -\> signatures and maybe -\> recall. I don’t think it is nearly as simple as that. Can you understand that more cuts to taxes = more cuts to services? **spooje** has it right. It’s all great to talk about cutting taxes, and cutting that “bloated government”, and eliminating “waste”, but when the rubber hits the road, actual services that people use will be eliminated. When the tax dollars decrease, people will find out that there is no fat to be cut - there is only meat and bone. And they won’t like it. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Understander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3da27b/32.png) [@The\_Understander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Understander)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2011, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scott-walker-recall-takes-an-unexpected-turn/604482/5 "2011-11-30T00:25:03Z")
> [@Mr.Moto](#): > > There is a soft economy right now. That means that spending has to be prioritized in government since revenue is down. > > The vast majority of schools everywhere in the country have had to make cuts. Now, these have been deeper in certain places, and I think there are policy differences and local conditions that can account for this. > > But your simpleheaded analysis doesn’t account for any of this, and the _Nation_ doesn’t account for it either. It’s just policies -\> cuts -\> signatures and maybe -\> recall. I don’t think it is nearly as simple as that. Why simpleheaded, Moto? Are you getting emotional because your man in Wisconsin is going down? ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2011, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scott-walker-recall-takes-an-unexpected-turn/604482/6 "2011-11-30T00:28:23Z")
> [@Mr.Moto](#): > > But your simpleheaded analysis doesn’t account for any of this, and the _Nation_ doesn’t account for it either. It’s just policies -\> cuts -\> signatures and maybe -\> recall. I don’t think it is nearly as simple as that. I see **Mr. Moto** is going with option B: not understanding what less money and less services actually mean. ---
**Author:** ![Icarus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/icarus/32/72_2.png) [@Icarus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Icarus)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2011, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scott-walker-recall-takes-an-unexpected-turn/604482/7 "2011-11-30T01:15:14Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > **spooje** has it right. It’s all great to talk about cutting taxes, and cutting that “bloated government”, and eliminating “waste”, but when the rubber hits the road, actual services that people use will be eliminated. When the tax dollars decrease, people will find out that there is no fat to be cut - there is only meat and bone. And they won’t like it. I am always amused by politicians proclaiming “We need jobs!” and then a few moments later stating “We need to cut government!” …um…so, which is it? Do they not understand that cutting government will mean laying off (government) workers? ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2011, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scott-walker-recall-takes-an-unexpected-turn/604482/8 "2011-11-30T05:06:49Z")
The people have been fed bull on the amount of government waste for so long that somewhere deep inside they must think that the government can give them all their services for no money. As an example, one of the nitwits who write into our paper about taxes being too high just wrote in to complain that he had to wait a whole hour at the DMV! One small favor - can someone add to the petition a clause that the schmuck gets tarred and feathered after he is recalled? Thanks in advance. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2011, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scott-walker-recall-takes-an-unexpected-turn/604482/9 "2011-11-30T13:55:25Z")
> [@Icarus](#): > > Do they not understand that cutting government will mean laying off (government) workers? Government jobs aren’t Jobs[sup]TM[/sup]. Jobs[sup]TM[/sup] can only be provided by millionai- … I mean Job Creators[sup]TM[/sup], who, of course, require tax rates near zero and every loophole available to create said Jobs[sup]TM[/sup] … while also affording boarding school for Muffy and the spring trip to Gstaad for the little woman. What are you, a communist or something? ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2011, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scott-walker-recall-takes-an-unexpected-turn/604482/10 "2011-11-30T14:17:41Z")
> [@Icarus](#): > > I am always amused by politicians proclaiming “We need jobs!” and then a few moments later stating “We need to cut government!” > > …um…so, which is it? Do they not understand that cutting government will mean laying off (government) workers? Ironically, in the past couple of years there has been a pretty substantial increase in private employment. Unfortunately, it’s been balanced, or more than balanced, by huge cuts in public employment on the state and local level. Those who want to cut government spending should be proclaiming this as a huge success. They should own 9% unemployment. They should say “hey, I love 9% unemployment! It means we’re cutting evil public sector employment!” ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2011, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scott-walker-recall-takes-an-unexpected-turn/604482/11 "2011-11-30T16:57:06Z")
> [@Biggirl](#): > > I see **Mr. Moto** is going with option B: not understanding what less money and less services actually mean. Oh, I understand pretty well. And for the record I think Walker could have obtained many of his stated goals in a less confrontational fashion. There was wide agreement that Wisconsin had to become more competitive with regard to their tax structure and their business environment. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2011, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scott-walker-recall-takes-an-unexpected-turn/604482/12 "2011-11-30T20:05:42Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > The people have been fed bull on the amount of government waste for so long that somewhere deep inside they must think that the government can give them all their services for no money. As an example, one of the nitwits who write into our paper about taxes being too high just wrote in to complain that he had to wait a whole hour at the DMV! I think its the notion that the folks working at the DMV are really no better than the guy who takes my order at McDonalds but we overpay them and therefore can afford fewer of them because evil government unions force taxpayers to overpay them and because their unions protect their jobs, they halfass it all day. Basically they think government workers are bloodsuckers who provide little value for a lot of pay all at the taxpayer’s expense. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2011, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scott-walker-recall-takes-an-unexpected-turn/604482/13 "2011-11-30T20:07:12Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > Ironically, in the past couple of years there has been a pretty substantial increase in private employment. Unfortunately, it’s been balanced, or more than balanced, by huge cuts in public employment on the state and local level. Cite? ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2011, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scott-walker-recall-takes-an-unexpected-turn/604482/14 "2011-11-30T20:28:18Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Cite? [Here](http://www.insidebayarea.com/business/ci_19434629) is one. It does not say that government cuts are equal to industry growth, but it is clear that government cuts are hurting the recovery. ---
**Author:** ![Kolga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e56c9b/32.png) [@Kolga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolga)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2011, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scott-walker-recall-takes-an-unexpected-turn/604482/15 "2011-11-30T21:12:47Z")
There was a story on NPR this morning (sorry, no link, I heard it on the way to work) that about 44% of the jobs lost in the past month were government jobs. It got me wondering if the people screaming about “cut the government!” realize that those lost jobs are now part of the unemployment rate that they’re ALSO screaming about. ---
**Author:** ![Swords\_to\_Plowshares](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b38774/32.png) [@Swords\_to\_Plowshares](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Swords_to_Plowshares)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2011, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scott-walker-recall-takes-an-unexpected-turn/604482/16 "2011-11-30T22:37:45Z")
> [@Kolga](#): > > There was a story on NPR this morning (sorry, no link, I heard it on the way to work) that about 44% of the jobs lost in the past month were government jobs. > > It got me wondering if the people screaming about “cut the government!” realize that those lost jobs are now part of the unemployment rate that they’re ALSO screaming about. Math isn’t their strong suit. ---
**Author:** ![waterj2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/858c86/32.png) [@waterj2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/waterj2)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2011, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scott-walker-recall-takes-an-unexpected-turn/604482/17 "2011-11-30T23:55:39Z")
You might want to sit down for this shocking news, but there [seem to be conservative dirty tricks afoot](http://motherjones.com/mojo/2011/11/conservative-sabotage-recall-walker-wisconsin#update1): > [@](#): > > A group of self-identified conservatives say they plan to sabotage the effort to recall Wisconsin GOP Gov. Scott Walker, which begins on Tuesday, by burning and shredding recall petitions they’ve collected and misleading Wisconsinites about the recall process. Nice of these people to discuss their plans on Facebook considering that: > [@](#): > > Reid Magney, a spokesman from Wisconsin’s Government Accountability Board, says destroying or defacing an official recall petition would violate state law. ([Here’s the relevant statute.](https://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/statutes/statutes/12/13/3/a)) Such a violation, he adds, would be a [class I felony](https://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/statutes/statutes/939/IV/50) in Wisconsin, which carries a maximum fine of $10,000 and up to three-and-a-half years in jail. Oh, I’d be pretty amused to see these fools in jail. ---
**Author:** ![Esox\_Lucius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/848f3c/32.png) [@Esox\_Lucius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esox_Lucius)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2011, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scott-walker-recall-takes-an-unexpected-turn/604482/18 "2011-12-05T19:17:43Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > Ironically, in the past couple of years there has been a pretty substantial increase in private employment. Unfortunately, it’s been balanced, or more than balanced, by huge cuts in public employment on the state and local level. > [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Cite? [This graph](http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/graph/?g=3EH) from the Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis shows federal gov’t jobs declining and private sector jobs increasing in the last couple of years. I found it through a [Slate.com](http://Slate.com) story entitled, [“How America Ditched Socialism Under Barack Obama”.](http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/2011/12/02/how_america_ditched_socialism_under_barack_obama.html) ---
**Author:** ![Esox\_Lucius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/848f3c/32.png) [@Esox\_Lucius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esox_Lucius)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2011, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scott-walker-recall-takes-an-unexpected-turn/604482/19 "2011-12-05T19:36:49Z")
> [@Kolga](#): > > There was a story on NPR this morning (sorry, no link, I heard it on the way to work) that about 44% of the jobs lost in the past month were government jobs. > > It got me wondering if the people screaming about “cut the government!” realize that those lost jobs are now part of the unemployment rate that they’re ALSO screaming about. They’re right in that governments at every level have to cut spending. That’s a fact that everyone’s going to have to learn to live with. What the leaders have to decide is what cuts to make and how to do it that causes the least pain. It would be decent of the tea party types to accept that raising taxes would help to alleviate some of the pain which they will no doubt feel themselves. ---
**Author:** ![Kolga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e56c9b/32.png) [@Kolga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolga)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2011, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scott-walker-recall-takes-an-unexpected-turn/604482/20 "2011-12-05T20:34:12Z")
> [@Esox\_Lucius](#): > > They’re right in that governments at every level have to cut spending. That’s a fact that everyone’s going to have to learn to live with. That hasn’t been proven to my satisfaction. What one person considers inappropriate government spending, another might consider essential services. Plus, the major government expenditures (such as the military budget) are NEVER on the table in the discussion of cutting government spending. Cutting small programs that help people seems to be the focus. > [@Esox\_Lucius](#): > > It would be decent of the tea party types to accept that raising taxes would help to alleviate some of the pain which they will no doubt feel themselves. On this point, we are in agreement. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scott-walker-recall-takes-an-unexpected-turn/604482.md?page=2)