# Scottish Independence-Is it realistic? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [April 28, 2024, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scottish-independence-is-it-realistic/1000883 "2024-04-28T21:55:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slow_moving_vehicle/32/291_2.png) [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slow_Moving_Vehicle)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2024, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scottish-independence-is-it-realistic/1000883/61 "2024-05-08T14:25:23Z")
> [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > > [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](#): > > > > I’m not talking about ethnicity. 62% of the citizens of Scotland, who lived and worked there at the time, which of course included people of English and South Asian and Irish and Polish and Italian descent, voted to stay in the EU. That gives them an argument for independence. > > Nah I wouldn’t agree with that it gives them a argument for independence, because enacting a Scexit from the UK would be basically turbo-Brexit for Scotland. It sounds like you’re saying it’s a _bad_ idea. And it may well be, I’m not qualified to judge. But if I understand correctly, one of the strong arguments from the “No” side in the 2014 referendum was that an independent Scotland would lose the benefits of EU membership, at least until the nation was admitted, a process that would take years and might not happen, given Spanish opposition. Had I been a Scottish citizen then, that would have swayed me. Evidently, it did sway a lot of Scots, since 55% of you voted to remain in union with England and Wales; every county save Glasgow, North Lanarkshire, and West Dunbartonshire. Brexit cut the knees out from under that argument. So I can see how a Scot could think the country might be better off going it alone, if they can rejoin the EU. Whether or not it’s a good idea, I don’t know. But it doesn’t seem an unreasonable one, nor one based on sentimental romanticism. > [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > > [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](#): > > > > but the Scots can at least make the historical case that they haven’t always been part of the UK, > > The ‘UK’ Came into existence when England and Scotland pooled their sovereignty, there was no UK beforehand. I’d complain that this was just nitpicking, but, well, it’s the SDMB – nitpicking’s what we _do_. 😄 ---
**Author:** ![Sandwich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/22d042/32.png) [@Sandwich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sandwich)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2024, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scottish-independence-is-it-realistic/1000883/62 "2024-05-08T16:28:49Z")
In my opinion, Spain would not veto Scottish membership of the EU, however much they dislike the precedent for Catalonia. There are basically four possible strategic alignments for a free Scotland: - with the West, through membership of the EU and Nato - with Russia - with China - unaligned Scotland will strongly favour the first, as will every other Nato and EU member, and every Western ally, even though Spain will dislike the local implications for them. It’s a no-brainer, even for the Spanish. No one will want to leave Scotland isolated, to be courted by Russia and China as a new ally in a dominant position in the eastern North Atlantic, which conveniently already has two bases suitable for nuclear armed submarines. Just writing it down shows how impossible that would be. ---
**Author:** ![zimaane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a3d4f5/32.png) [@zimaane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zimaane)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2024, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scottish-independence-is-it-realistic/1000883/63 "2024-05-08T17:03:46Z")
> [@Smid](#): > > Well, I’m guessing born in Scotland, Scottish passport. Living in Scotland for a significant time, Scottish passport. Not in schengen, so Common Travel Area like Republic of Ireland. Can have UK passport if live in England and not born there. > > The idea of deporting people is ludicrous. I don’t have a dog in this flight and am here just trying to understand the situation better. But why would it be ludicrous? If Scotland is an independent nation, then an immigrant from London would be treated like an immigrant from Lagos, and either could be deported for, say, committing a crime or working without authorization, I would think. ---
**Author:** ![Ryan\_Liam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ryan_liam/32/3965_2.png) [@Ryan\_Liam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryan_Liam)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2024, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scottish-independence-is-it-realistic/1000883/64 "2024-05-08T17:08:40Z")
> [@Sandwich](#): > > free Scotland That’s a loaded term, Scotland is already free ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2024, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scottish-independence-is-it-realistic/1000883/65 "2024-05-08T17:14:50Z")
They might or they might not, but it would be odd not to follow the Irish precedent for a common travel area. The SNP explicitly committed to retaining a CTA at the time of the independence referendum. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2024, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scottish-independence-is-it-realistic/1000883/66 "2024-05-08T17:35:52Z")
> [@Sandwich](#): > > There are basically four possible strategic alignments for a free Scotland: > > - with the West, through membership of the EU and Nato > - with Russia > - with China > - unaligned I see another possible alignment: union with another country. For example, Ireland. That would give Scotland a backdoor into the EU. I don’t think it’s very likely at all, but it’s more likely than alignment with Russia (slowly dying with no capability for helping itself or others) or China (terrible record of handling client states). ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2024, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scottish-independence-is-it-realistic/1000883/67 "2024-05-08T17:42:40Z")
> [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > > [@Sandwich](#): > > > > free Scotland > > That’s a loaded term, Scotland is already free It is? Then why did I get charged? ---
**Author:** ![Ryan\_Liam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ryan_liam/32/3965_2.png) [@Ryan\_Liam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryan_Liam)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2024, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scottish-independence-is-it-realistic/1000883/68 "2024-05-08T17:43:29Z")
Charged? ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2024, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scottish-independence-is-it-realistic/1000883/69 "2024-05-08T17:44:26Z")
> [@PatrickLondon](#): > > The SNP explicitly committed to retaining a CTA at the time of the independence referendum. The SNP might have committed, but it doesn’t mean that Westminster would have agreed. No more than Quebec could leave Canada or Texas leave America while just assuming that the country they just left would give them everything they wanted to effectively keep the status quo ante. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2024, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scottish-independence-is-it-realistic/1000883/70 "2024-05-08T17:45:09Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Then why did I get charged? Putting sugar in your tea is a class D misdemeanor. ---
**Author:** ![Sandwich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/22d042/32.png) [@Sandwich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sandwich)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2024, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scottish-independence-is-it-realistic/1000883/71 "2024-05-08T18:05:28Z")
Scotland emphatically is not free. That’s exactly why the Scottish Parliament can’t hold another referendum without getting permission from the sovereign English Parliament. Freedom to do as you’re told isn’t freedom at all. ---
**Author:** ![Ryan\_Liam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ryan_liam/32/3965_2.png) [@Ryan\_Liam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryan_Liam)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2024, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scottish-independence-is-it-realistic/1000883/72 "2024-05-08T19:01:54Z")
It’s not an English parliament, England is not sovereign. > [@Sandwich](#): > > Freedom to do as you’re told isn’t freedom at all. They had a referendum in 2014 what are you talking about. ---
**Author:** ![Ryan\_Liam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ryan_liam/32/3965_2.png) [@Ryan\_Liam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryan_Liam)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2024, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scottish-independence-is-it-realistic/1000883/73 "2024-05-08T19:03:59Z")
I highly doubt they would get it ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2024, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scottish-independence-is-it-realistic/1000883/74 "2024-05-08T19:44:06Z")
> [@asterion](#): > > The SNP might have committed, but it doesn’t mean that Westminster would have agreed Only practical way to avoid an unnecessary problem, as it was in 1922 - and Westminster, as the party wanting to keep us together, would want it no less. ---
**Author:** ![Ryan\_Liam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ryan_liam/32/3965_2.png) [@Ryan\_Liam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryan_Liam)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2024, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scottish-independence-is-it-realistic/1000883/75 "2024-05-08T20:05:41Z")
Even Orwell wrote about this! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scottish-independence-is-it-realistic/1000883.md?page=3)