# SCOTUS: Arizona voting law constitutional **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [July 6, 2021, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-arizona-voting-law-constitutional/945854 "2021-07-06T21:50:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2021, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-arizona-voting-law-constitutional/945854/21 "2021-07-06T23:46:53Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > You’re clearly asking questions that you know the answers to. Please stop. Because I don’t concede your debate point I am not knowing the “answers” to any “question.” It’s a debate, not a point of fact. A black man can go to the DMV just like I did last month. No signs or winks from the clerks that the (racial slurs) can go over there and come on white boy, you get first in line. Nothing like that. Equally on all terms. To make this a racial thing is ridiculous. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2021, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-arizona-voting-law-constitutional/945854/22 "2021-07-06T23:48:05Z")
Let’s take an extreme example: Alabama declares that people in a predominantly white and Republican district can vote at any one of two hundred polling places at any time between 8 am and 8 pm starting on the Saturday before Election Day, where they’re usually given only a cursory ID check. People in a predominantly black and Democratic district must vote on Election Day only, from 11 am to 2 pm, at this one polling place that’s the only one in a 200 mile radius, and you must bring three specific forms of ID issued by this one office open every third Wednesday of the month that’s also the only one within a 200 mile radius (because they closed all the others) and cost $30 each. Is this okay with you? Voting isn’t _impossible_ for the latter district, right? The argument being made to you is that Republican lawmakers are making policy and decisions with this situation being their ultimate, ideal goal, and that any insistence on preventing “voter fraud” is just plain lying to cover for seeking of enshrining political advantage in their favor into law. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2021, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-arizona-voting-law-constitutional/945854/23 "2021-07-06T23:57:31Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > Is this okay with you? Voting isn’t _impossible_ for the latter district, right? At the risk of running into a gotcha, of course I don’t believe that such a law would be okay. At all. And if there is reason to believe that me as a white guy can just walk into a polling place and sign my name but that (racial slur) over there has to produce DNA to vote, then I will support the prosecution of that local election official. And again, this law lets a dude vote from his fucking couch. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2021, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-arizona-voting-law-constitutional/945854/24 "2021-07-06T23:58:23Z")
I sure am glad Republicans/conservatives haven’t made it abundantly clear how much they want to end mail-in and early voting! ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2021, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-arizona-voting-law-constitutional/945854/25 "2021-07-07T00:08:00Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > And Kagan’s dissent is just the product of liberal law school thinking. She goes on about how wonderful the Voting Rights Act is. She loves it. **But a judge’s opinion should not rest on her personal opinion of the value of the law.** You do remember that the Voting RIghts Act was passed by Congress, and some conservative justices decided to throw it out based on their personal opinion of the value of the law? ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2021, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-arizona-voting-law-constitutional/945854/26 "2021-07-07T00:09:54Z")
It was not their personal opinion of the value of the law. It was a constitutional decision about whether a legal test forever cemented in 1965 was a rational thing for the feds to do under their 15th Amendment enforcement power. Under any rational test, it was not. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2021, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-arizona-voting-law-constitutional/945854/27 "2021-07-07T00:12:03Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > It was not their personal opinion of the value of the law. It was a constitutional decision about whether a legal test forever cemented in 1965 was a rational thing for the feds to do under their 15th Amendment enforcement power. So if a Justice thinks Congress has that power, it’s a “personal opinion,” but if a Justice doesn’t think Congress has that power it’s a “constitutional decision.” Got it. ---
**Author:** ![DeadTreasSecretaries](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deadtreassecretaries/32/4817_2.png) [@DeadTreasSecretaries](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeadTreasSecretaries)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2021, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-arizona-voting-law-constitutional/945854/28 "2021-07-07T00:12:39Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > But how does this even remotely keep anyone from voting? Did you read Alito’s opinion? Do you disagree with his factual recitation? A person can more easily vote in Arizona than they can get prescription medication or enroll a child in school. Nobody is being denied the ability to vote. Generally, I think the precedent set by this ruling, and the way that even prior to this ruling the courts were so slow to respond in the paradigm with no preclearance mechanism, are much more important that the singular case being ruled on (as it was in Shelby). On this particular case, I’m not an expert on the details, but it appears that [voting access for Native American tribes](https://apnews.com/article/joe-biden-voter-registration-voting-rights-business-election-2020-152573041f97f690381cd2a323db586c) is challenged by these restrictions. And the way I viewed election law up until this ruling was that things like voter confusion could be considered as a restriction on voting rights. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2021, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-arizona-voting-law-constitutional/945854/29 "2021-07-07T00:12:57Z")
It depends on how the Justice reached the decision. Personal praise for the law to me leads to a belief that it was just personal preference. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2021, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-arizona-voting-law-constitutional/945854/30 "2021-07-07T00:14:48Z")
> [@DeadTreasSecretaries](#): > > And the way I viewed election law up until this ruling was that things like voter confusion could be considered as a restriction on voting rights. And I know you didn’t mean it this way, but it shocks and offends me to say that minorities are just so dumb that they can’t mail in a ballot or find their local voting precinct. It was what I was always taught was a bad thing to think. ---
**Author:** ![DeadTreasSecretaries](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deadtreassecretaries/32/4817_2.png) [@DeadTreasSecretaries](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeadTreasSecretaries)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2021, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-arizona-voting-law-constitutional/945854/31 "2021-07-07T00:18:01Z")
Not only did I not mean it that way, that was not the meaning or implication of what I said. Like I said, I’m am not an expert on this, but the _specific_ restrictions on certain tribes in Arizona, as explained by the actual experts were arbitrary and confusing, based on geographic and demographic impacts that fall disproportionately on them. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2021, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-arizona-voting-law-constitutional/945854/32 "2021-07-07T00:21:20Z")
Even if they don’t have internet, they have phones, right? Or neighbors? Or a registration card that has their local precinct on it? ---
**Author:** ![DeadTreasSecretaries](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deadtreassecretaries/32/4817_2.png) [@DeadTreasSecretaries](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeadTreasSecretaries)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2021, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-arizona-voting-law-constitutional/945854/33 "2021-07-07T00:23:12Z")
I’m just going to again link the article I linked above and quote from it this time. > **[Tribes say voting access hurt by US Supreme Court ruling](https://apnews.com/article/joe-biden-voter-registration-voting-rights-business-election-2020-152573041f97f690381cd2a323db586c)** > > Native American advocates say a ruling this week by the U.S. Supreme Court in an Arizona voting rights case will impact tribes broadly. > [@](#): > > Navajo Nation President Jonathan Nez said Thursday’s decision does nothing to protect voting access for minorities, including Navajos. > > The decision ignores the number of voters who didn’t cast a ballot because they were told they weren’t in the right precinct, as well as socioeconomic barriers such as poverty and the reservation’s remoteness, said Ferguson-Bohnee. > > Hardly anyone has a street address on the vast Navajo Nation. Tribal members are among rural residents who must draw a map in a small space on voter registration cards showing where they live, and it’s up to county officials to place them in the right precinct. > > In the 2020 election, more than 2,000 voters in Apache County were placed on a list because of questions surrounding their residency, the Navajo Nation noted in court documents. Neither the state nor the county had online options for voters to determine their polling location without a street address, tribal attorneys wrote. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2021, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-arizona-voting-law-constitutional/945854/34 "2021-07-07T00:27:52Z")
First, it’s 2021, get a fucking street address. But absent that, you read Alito’s opinion. Any voter can cast a provisional ballot and say “Yeah, I live over the hill there. I am in this precinct.” Or mail in the ballot. Or go to a “voting center.” I mean, as I said earlier, the state can’t do much more than if they sent a limo to your house to let you vote. ---
**Author:** ![DeadTreasSecretaries](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deadtreassecretaries/32/4817_2.png) [@DeadTreasSecretaries](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeadTreasSecretaries)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2021, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-arizona-voting-law-constitutional/945854/35 "2021-07-07T00:29:00Z")
Well like I said, even voter confusion can be viewed as a voting restriction. At least prior to this ruling. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2021, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-arizona-voting-law-constitutional/945854/36 "2021-07-07T00:37:35Z")
But that is inconsistent with what I believe is racial equality. Black people aren’t stupid, are they? They are just as smart as any white person. And if there is a requirement that you go online or call a local office to find out where to vote, then a black person can do that just the same as I can. This “voter confusion” accusation of racism is more racist than anything my grandfather ever said. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2021, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-arizona-voting-law-constitutional/945854/37 "2021-07-07T00:38:27Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > If this is true, then they are terrible at it. You can vote by never leaving your couch. How is that restricting anyone’s vote? In Arizona you can just drop the ballot in the mail? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2021, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-arizona-voting-law-constitutional/945854/38 "2021-07-07T00:39:49Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > This “voter confusion” accusation of racism is more racist than anything my grandfather ever said. The people that fight racism are the _real_ racists, amirite? ---
**Author:** ![DeadTreasSecretaries](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deadtreassecretaries/32/4817_2.png) [@DeadTreasSecretaries](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeadTreasSecretaries)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2021, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-arizona-voting-law-constitutional/945854/39 "2021-07-07T00:40:46Z")
The point is not that voter confusion arises directly from a quality of the demographic group. The point is that the proportions aren’t equal regarding demographics that wind up in the scenario where laws like the AZ one can cause confusion. So if x% of all demographics (x can even be really low, say 3%) will not cast a vote and have it get counted when they’re in the circumstance where there is a restriction on where they cast their vote, and one group is more likely to be in that circumstance in the first place, then mandating them to cast a vote in a certain place can have a disproportionate impact. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2021, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-arizona-voting-law-constitutional/945854/40 "2021-07-07T00:42:15Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > This “voter confusion” accusation of racism is more racist than anything my grandfather ever said. Well, but not against Italians. He said a lot of WAY racist things against Italians. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-arizona-voting-law-constitutional/945854.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-arizona-voting-law-constitutional/945854.md?page=3)