# SCOTUS: Arizona voting law constitutional **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [July 6, 2021, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-arizona-voting-law-constitutional/945854 "2021-07-06T21:50:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![DeadTreasSecretaries](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deadtreassecretaries/32/4817_2.png) [@DeadTreasSecretaries](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeadTreasSecretaries)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2021, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-arizona-voting-law-constitutional/945854/61 "2021-07-07T21:52:57Z")
> [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > Can anyone explain to me how this ruling differs from [_Williams v. Mississippi_](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Williams_v._Mississippi), the decision that basically jump started Jim Crow? > > There race was never specifically mentioned in the laws that set up poll taxes, literacy tests, and grandfather clauses, it just by pure coincidence that they happened to hinder black voters more than white voters. Contextually there are two main differences: We have the civil rights-era constitutional amendments outlawing some of the worst of the worst, like poll taxes, so we would at least probably be in Jim Crow-lite in the worst-case scenario based solely off this type of ruling (although the potential for other things like refusing to certify election results are another ball of wax for a possible future court case). The other thing was that the SCOTUS did say that they don’t intend to use this case to set precedent for all types of election-related law - I think they specifically said it was for law that was based on place/manner of voting (which is of course very expansive in itself). I don’t know how much this will actually matter - ultimately if we do end up in Jim Crow-lite it’ll probably be thanks in part to several court cases like this that whittle the VRA into nothing - which seems to be the court’s MO for the past few years on other issues. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2021, 6:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-arizona-voting-law-constitutional/945854/62 "2021-07-08T06:54:50Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > First, it’s 2021, get a fucking street address. You’re sounding like the AAA dispatcher I called when I had a breakdown on US95 in Nevada who insisted I give him an address. I told him, “I’m in the middle of nowhere, Nevada on the northbound side of US 95 by mile marker [NY 17](https://www.google.com/maps/@36.5728525,-116.1803064,3a,75y,279.42h,62.46t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sHdTGmdyYW6pBV-Vmqx6HKw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?hl=en) about two miles north of the [junction with Nevada highway 160](https://www.google.com/maps/@36.5728525,-116.1803064,13z?hl=en) to Pahrump.” “But there’s _got_ to be an address.” “I’m twenty miles north of Indian Springs, forty south of Beatty – take your pick.” Mind you, this was on a major highway. What address should [this family](https://www.google.com/maps/@35.9036974,-109.9566215,144m/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=en) living in the Navajo nation use? Go ahead, I’ll wait while you zoom back and figure it out. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2021, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-arizona-voting-law-constitutional/945854/63 "2021-07-08T17:51:56Z")
Since voting is so critical to a functioning democracy, laws should have the goal of making it as easy as possible to vote. There is also the concern that votes be legitimate, however the former should outweigh the latter, especially when we have no evidence of widespread voter fraud. Basically, make it as easy as possible to vote up to the point where people can easily submit bulk fraudulent ballots to steal elections. Some politicians want to use the bogeyman of voter fraud to disenfranchise certain classes of voters that are likely to vote for the opponent. That is bad. And when those classes of voters fall along racial lines it’s also racist, even if you don’t personally have any animosity toward a person’s race. If Hispanic people vote for you and Black people don’t, and you pass laws that limit ballot drop-offs in areas with large Black populations and add them to Hispanic areas, those are racist laws. It doesn’t matter what your intent is, if the result gives disparate racial outcomes the laws are racist. That is also bad. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2021, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-arizona-voting-law-constitutional/945854/64 "2021-07-08T18:24:14Z")
> [@DesertDog](#): > > Mind you, this was on a major highway. What address should [this family](https://www.google.com/maps/@35.9036974,-109.9566215,144m/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=en) living in the Navajo nation use? Go ahead, I’ll wait while you zoom back and figure it out. Let’s remember how big the Navajo Reservation is > The Navajo Nation has an area of over 27,000 square miles and is situated on the southwestern Colorado Plateau. Very often, the size of the Navajo Nation is compared to that of the state of West Virginia [https://www.discovernavajo.com/things-to-know/fact-sheet/](https://www.discovernavajo.com/things-to-know/fact-sheet/) ---
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2021, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-arizona-voting-law-constitutional/945854/65 "2021-07-08T18:35:49Z")
UltraVires, I’m largely with you on the SCOTUS ruling; I’m not sure how they could have legitimately declared Arizona’s laws unconstitutional. My problem with AZ, as has been alluded to by others, is what is the purpose of the new laws? Surely it’s not to protect the integrity of the vote because no problems were found despite hand recounts. We know the reason–it’s to try to tip the scales just enough for the GOP to win the next close election. I am not sure what the solution is, given that I agree with SCOTUS. Maybe some federal legislation that spells out bare minimums. One possible silver lining is that if the Democrats win the next election there will be even less grounds for protest. Not that that will stop it. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2021, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-arizona-voting-law-constitutional/945854/66 "2021-07-08T22:03:55Z")
> [@Deeg](#): > > UltraVires, I’m largely with you on the SCOTUS ruling; I’m not sure how they could have legitimately declared Arizona’s laws unconstitutional. They were not being asked to declare the laws unconstitutional. This was a statutory interpretation case, in which they were being asked to determine whether Arizona’s laws conformed with the Civil Rights Act of 1965. ---
**Author:** ![DMC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dmc/32/18049_2.png) [@DMC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMC)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2021, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-arizona-voting-law-constitutional/945854/67 "2021-07-08T22:11:15Z")
> [@Deeg](#): > > We know the reason–it’s to try to tip the scales just enough for the GOP to win the next close election. I am not sure what the solution is, given that I agree with SCOTUS. Maybe some federal legislation that spells out bare minimums. If your primary goal is to win elections, make policies that the majority agree with. > [@](#): > > One possible silver lining is that if the Democrats win the next election there will be even less grounds for protest. Not that that will stop it. If you think we’re protesting because we’ll lose, not because it’s wrong, you’re horribly mistaken. Projecting, perhaps, but mistaken. I want it to be just as easy for elderly white Republicans to vote as I want it to be for Blacks, the Navajo, and everyone else. If Democrats get 90% of the vote, but it would have been 91% if it was fair, I’ll still protest. Stop fucking with the right to vote. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2021, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-arizona-voting-law-constitutional/945854/68 "2021-07-10T01:57:13Z")
Heck, Carmel-by-the-Sea, Calfiornia has a good chunk of it with no street addresses, and I’m fairly certain that’s not an impoverished neighborhood. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2021, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-arizona-voting-law-constitutional/945854/69 "2021-07-10T03:19:08Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > Civil Rights Act of 1965. Of course, that should have read Voting Rights Act. D’oh! ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2021, 6:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-arizona-voting-law-constitutional/945854/70 "2021-07-10T06:42:06Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > > [@UltraVires](#): > > > > - This law requires a burden like all laws do; > > > > > - This burden, like all burdens, falls most harshly on the poor; > > > - Minorities make up a higher percentage of the poor than whites; > > > Therefore > > > - This law is racist. > > I’ve asked you this before, so here it is a second time: > > Do you care to address the issue of disparate impact? Evidently (heh, heh, heh), there is no response forthcoming from the lawyer. Here’s a hint: the Supreme Court determined way back in 1971 that disparate ipact is, in fact, discriminatory. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2021, 9:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-arizona-voting-law-constitutional/945854/71 "2021-07-11T09:39:26Z")
I’m confused? If a post box is sufficiently an ‘address’ for the government/bank/credit card issuer, to send you a legally binding bill, how can it be insufficiently an ‘address’ for a citizen to be allowed to vote? I’m stunned by this decision, when I first heard about the disenfranchisement of the reservation populations I felt certain it could never stand up constitutionally. Colour me surprised. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2021, 10:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-arizona-voting-law-constitutional/945854/72 "2021-07-11T10:45:29Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > If a post box is sufficiently an ‘address’ for the government/bank/credit card issuer, to send you a legally binding bill, how can it be insufficiently an ‘address’ for a citizen to be allowed to vote? We legitimately need to know your residence, the actual location of your domicile, to direct your votes for Representative and any local elections. Of course, this means the government should be actively ensuring that our citizenry have legitimate defensible addresses for voting purposes. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2021, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-arizona-voting-law-constitutional/945854/73 "2021-07-11T14:01:35Z")
Doesn’t really address either, why it’s an okay ‘address‘ for the government to send you a tax bill, but NOT to let you vote, or how it can possibly be constitutional to disenfranchise entire nations from voting. How can it be okay to do this to the very people you took the land from? To say, you don’t qualify on a technicality we just made up! It was good the last X number of elections, but now we’ve changed it…just so you can’t vote democrat! How does that pass as constitutional in any way? ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2021, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-arizona-voting-law-constitutional/945854/74 "2021-07-11T16:37:00Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > Doesn’t really address either, why it’s an okay ‘address‘ for the government to send you a tax bill, but NOT to let you vote, or how it can possibly be constitutional to disenfranchise entire nations from voting. Anyone can rent a P.O. Box anywhere they like. If I live in Florida, but have a P.O. Box in California, should I be allowed to vote in California elections? ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2021, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-arizona-voting-law-constitutional/945854/75 "2021-07-11T17:53:49Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > We legitimately need to know your residence, the actual location of your domicile, to direct your votes for Representative and any local elections. Of course, this means the government should be actively ensuring that our citizenry have legitimate defensible addresses for voting purposes. I think your first sentence is correct but your second is not. Just because you don’t have an address, that doesn’t mean they can’t know where you live. Don’t properties have lot numbers registered with a county? Can’t you cross-reference that with a voting area the same way you can a mailing address? It sounds like the lack of a mailing address is an excuse to exclude particular areas from being able to vote. This is 2021, we could just use GPS coordinates for residences to manage this. If people really wanted to provide all eligible voters a chance to participate it wouldn’t be that hard. This is intentional disenfranchisement on the part of lawmakers. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2021, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-arizona-voting-law-constitutional/945854/76 "2021-07-11T18:01:03Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > This is 2021, we could just use GPS coordinates for residences to manage this. [What3words](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/What3words) would be even better. No pesky lat-long fractions to memorize. > Founded by Chris Sheldrick, [Jack Waley-Cohen](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Waley-Cohen), Mohan Ganesalingam and Michael Dent, what3words was launched in July 2013.[[2]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/What3words#cite_note-w3w-launch-2)[[3]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/What3words#cite_note-w3w-launch-2-3) Sheldrick and Ganesalingam conceived the idea when Sheldrick, working as an [event organizer](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Event_organizer), struggled to get bands and equipment to music venues using inadequate address information.[[4]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/What3words#cite_note-4) Sheldrick tried using GPS coordinates to locate the venues, but decided that words were better than numbers after a one-digit error led him to the wrong location. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2021, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-arizona-voting-law-constitutional/945854/77 "2021-07-11T18:02:53Z")
Nice. Bottom line is that throwing up your hands and saying, “Oh well, nothing we can do, you can’t vote,” is disengenous. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2021, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-arizona-voting-law-constitutional/945854/78 "2021-07-11T18:32:09Z")
It’s called willful ignorance. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2021, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-arizona-voting-law-constitutional/945854/79 "2021-07-11T18:58:25Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > Don’t properties have lot numbers registered with a county? Do they, on a reservation? Do the Arizona reservations have counties, or even such things as lot numbers? I don’t think property’s held in the same fashion. I do think there’s other ways to confirm where people live; and I believe those methods have been used in the past. The problem appears to be that Arizona doesn’t want to recognize them. > [@Atamasama](#): > > t sounds like the lack of a mailing address is an excuse to exclude particular areas from being able to vote. Exactly. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2021, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-arizona-voting-law-constitutional/945854/80 "2021-07-11T19:03:03Z")
> [@thorny\_locust](#): > > Do they, on a reservation? Do the Arizona reservations have counties, or even such things as lot numbers? I don’t think property’s held in the same fashion. Maybe not. That was just my first immediate thought for at least some of the properties in question without addresses. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-arizona-voting-law-constitutional/945854.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-arizona-voting-law-constitutional/945854.md?page=5)