# SCOTUS become politicized vs. not ruling according to people's preferences **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [May 9, 2022, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-become-politicized-vs-not-ruling-according-to-peoples-preferences/964208 "2022-05-09T21:57:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2022, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-become-politicized-vs-not-ruling-according-to-peoples-preferences/964208/61 "2022-05-11T03:18:49Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > If there is any excuse weaker than “They do it too!”, it’s got to be “They would do it too if they could!”. The problem with this is when one side plays dirty and tells the other side not to. E.G. McConnell opposes any supreme court nominee a democratic president puts forward. Then a republican president gets in and nominates someone and McConnell tells the dems terribly sorry for the last time. NOW we will play fair and so should you. Dems do. Then a democratic president puts forward a nominee and McCConnell is HA! Opposed suckers! Rinse and repeat. Sooner or later dems are either perpetual dupes or they have to “do it too.” ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2022, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-become-politicized-vs-not-ruling-according-to-peoples-preferences/964208/62 "2022-05-11T04:35:05Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Are you aware that in both 2016 and 2020, Trump came in second place? Factually incorrect. In 2016, the outcome was 306-232 in favor of President Trump. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2022, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-become-politicized-vs-not-ruling-according-to-peoples-preferences/964208/63 "2022-05-11T05:06:08Z")
I think we all know that referred to the popular vote which Trump lost and highlights a distinct flaw in our democracy. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2022, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-become-politicized-vs-not-ruling-according-to-peoples-preferences/964208/64 "2022-05-11T05:18:58Z")
I think we all know that the POTUS, any POTUS, is not elected by popular vote. If someone doesn’t like that reality, work to change it. But saying that President X lost the popular vote is meaningless when discussing who the President is/was. If the Dodgers beat the Cubs 3-2, one can’t reasonably say that the Dodgers came in second because the Cubs actually had more hits. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2022, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-become-politicized-vs-not-ruling-according-to-peoples-preferences/964208/65 "2022-05-11T05:34:00Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > If someone doesn’t like that reality, work to change it. But that is the crux of the problem. It really is near impossible to change (as a practical matter). So, a majority is being ruled by a minority and that minority makes sure it stays that way. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2022, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-become-politicized-vs-not-ruling-according-to-peoples-preferences/964208/66 "2022-05-11T06:04:38Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > > [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > > > Are you aware that in both 2016 and 2020, Trump came in second place? > > Factually incorrect. In 2016, the outcome was 306-232 in favor of President Trump. Follow along with the conversation. We were discussing what role the people have in choosing the President. The Electoral College is part of the problem I was describing. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2022, 12:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-become-politicized-vs-not-ruling-according-to-peoples-preferences/964208/67 "2022-05-11T12:02:45Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > But certainly some of the governors and mayors of Democratic cities have been as bad as Trump was, and reelected after getting out of jail. Certainly some governors and mayors of Republican cities have committed bestiality and genocide! CeRtAiNlY!!!111ELeVeN!!!111! ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2022, 12:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-become-politicized-vs-not-ruling-according-to-peoples-preferences/964208/68 "2022-05-11T12:06:25Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > **Systems** avoid the negatives of human nature. Removing systems and increasing direct democracy just brings those negatives into greater power and perks the ears of populist demagogues. Yes, the system of slavery really did a great job of removing the negatives of human nature. So did our unequel representation. Thank GOD we don’t have a direct democracy or those bastard Yanks would have abolished slavery even sooner. Thank God for the founding fathers, in their infinite wisdom, put into place SYSTEMS of representation that give undue power to slave states, ensuring that the SYSTEM of slavery, which was handed down by God Hisself, cannot be abolished by “populist demagogues”. Yes sir, thank God For systems! ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2022, 12:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-become-politicized-vs-not-ruling-according-to-peoples-preferences/964208/69 "2022-05-11T12:08:18Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > I think we all know that the POTUS, any POTUS, is not elected by popular vote. Thank God for that, or those dastardly Yanks would have been able to steal good honest Southern men’s slaves without even declaring the War of Northern Aggression! ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2022, 12:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-become-politicized-vs-not-ruling-according-to-peoples-preferences/964208/70 "2022-05-11T12:33:25Z")
I hate this trope that some of the justices lied. That’s really just not true. What did they say? They said Roe was settled law. That was true. Then, they (may) vote to overturn it – now, it’s overturned and no longer settled law. There’s no lie there. No justice respects stare decisis for all decisions and laws and previous rulings are overturned pretty regularly. I can’t stand the new justices. Everyone knew they would (likely) vote this way. But, they didn’t lie. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2022, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-become-politicized-vs-not-ruling-according-to-peoples-preferences/964208/71 "2022-05-11T12:46:26Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > I hate this trope that some of the justices lied. That’s really just not true. What did they say? They said Roe was settled law. That was true. Then, they (may) vote to overturn it – now, it’s overturned and no longer settled law. There’s no lie there. You are precisely right, by Disney movie logic. It’s like when the villain is trying to trick a spurned good guy to turn on the hero: I promise, if you appoint me, I won’t harm ONE HAIR on Roe V Wade’s head! Once appointed, pulls one hair off of Roe V Wade’s head: “There, this is the one hair I will not be harming.” > [@Gorsuch](#): > > **Gorsuch:** Senator, again, I would tell you that Roe v. Wade, decided in 1973, is a precedent of the U.S. Supreme Court. It has been reaffirmed. The reliance interest considerations are important there, and all of the other factors that go into analyzing precedent have to be considered. It is a precedent of the U.S. Supreme Court. It was reaffirmed in Casey in 1992 and in several other cases. So a good judge will consider it as precedent of the U.S. Supreme Court worthy as treatment of precedent like any other. Gorsuch: “Mwahaha! I said a GOOD JUDGE would condider it worthy precedent, _BUT I NEVER SAID I WAS A GOOD JUDGE_!!!” ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2022, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-become-politicized-vs-not-ruling-according-to-peoples-preferences/964208/72 "2022-05-11T12:52:32Z")
It’s as worthy of treatment as precedent as any other, such as Plessy, etc. They reviewed the precedent and decided to overturn it. It’s not at all like your Disney example. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2022, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-become-politicized-vs-not-ruling-according-to-peoples-preferences/964208/73 "2022-05-11T12:53:24Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > They said Roe was settled law. That was true. Then, they (may) vote to overturn it – now, it’s overturned and no longer settled law. There’s no lie there. JFC, if this represents the definition of truth, we’re beyond screwed as a society. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2022, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-become-politicized-vs-not-ruling-according-to-peoples-preferences/964208/74 "2022-05-11T12:54:30Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Conservatives never complained that SCOTUS was being “political” when it got Bush in office, upheld gun rights and Hobby Lobby (and certainly not when Roe is now likely to be overturned); liberals never complained SCOTUS was “losing legitimacy” when it passed Obergefell and upheld affirmative action, etc. This puts it in a contemporary setting and incidently colors only one side of it (Pubs do it). How about these rulings. Texas v. White Wickard v Filburn Brown v Board of Education, Topeka KS Regents of the University of California v Bakke National Federation of Independent Business v Sibilius All of these could be considered political rulings that conservatives hated and ranted against “activist judges” yet the left stayed mute or applauded the rulings. So what’s the point? The Court is a political body and always has been and their landmark rulings will piss of one side off or the other. The question is: is that a bug or a feature? ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2022, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-become-politicized-vs-not-ruling-according-to-peoples-preferences/964208/75 "2022-05-11T13:16:15Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > It’s as worthy of treatment as precedent as any other, such as Plessy, etc. They reviewed the precedent and decided to overturn it. He did not harm one hair. That’s exactly what he promised to do. Look, I get what you’re saying. You’re right, he (and the others) left himself plenty of weasel room, so that technically he didn’t lie. But in context, people were trying to determine if he would overturn roe v wade, and he said a lot of words to imply that the answer is no. The politically informed observer (just like the kid watching the Disney movie) knows this is a trick, but just because a lie is obvious doesn’t mean it isn’t a lie. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2022, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-become-politicized-vs-not-ruling-according-to-peoples-preferences/964208/76 "2022-05-11T13:17:02Z")
The thing is, is that lawyers are good at deception without outright lying, or at least anything actionable as perjury. That doesn’t actually make their deceit any more noble. Not that anyone was actually deceived. Well, except Collins and Murkowski. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2022, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-become-politicized-vs-not-ruling-according-to-peoples-preferences/964208/77 "2022-05-11T14:01:17Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > Given that there’s probably a hundred names on the first page that I linked, I’d suggest that your research was limited. We’re talking about the modern Republican party, not what they were a quarter century ago. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2022, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-become-politicized-vs-not-ruling-according-to-peoples-preferences/964208/78 "2022-05-11T14:01:22Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > In context, people were were trying to determine if he would overturn roe v wade Which, to be blunt, was a fool’s errand. They **knew** they could not just go: “YES or NO, sir, WILL you uphold Roe? YES OR NO?!?” and create a Col. Jessup moment. So of course they had to leave them the door open to weaselword it _and they knew that was what would happen_. Not that would have made a difference. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2022, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-become-politicized-vs-not-ruling-according-to-peoples-preferences/964208/79 "2022-05-11T14:04:51Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > They **knew** they could not just go: “YES or NO, sir, WILL you uphold Roe? YES OR NO?!?” and create a Col. Jessup moment. So of course they had to leave them the door open to weaselword it _and they knew that was what would happen_ . Why not? They would have gotten exactly the same votes. I’m sure Collins and Murkowski would have found a way to justify confirming them without needing the fig leaf of them being gullible fools that believed they wouldn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2022, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-become-politicized-vs-not-ruling-according-to-peoples-preferences/964208/80 "2022-05-11T14:27:10Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > **Systems** avoid the negatives of human nature. Removing systems and increasing direct democracy just brings those negatives into greater power and perks the ears of populist demagogues. Nonsense. Look around. Republicans are getting away with immoral and illegal acts because they have a system that insulates them from the consequences. The system you’re defending is perpetuating the negatives. The Democrats aren’t perfect. They have their bad people. But the Democrats still hold bad people accountable. The Republicans don’t. Even the Republicans who aren’t personally committing crimes defend the other Republicans who do. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-become-politicized-vs-not-ruling-according-to-peoples-preferences/964208.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-become-politicized-vs-not-ruling-according-to-peoples-preferences/964208.md?page=5)