# SCOTUS become politicized vs. not ruling according to people's preferences **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [May 9, 2022, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-become-politicized-vs-not-ruling-according-to-peoples-preferences/964208 "2022-05-09T21:57:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2022, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-become-politicized-vs-not-ruling-according-to-peoples-preferences/964208/101 "2022-05-12T16:31:15Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > They are simply not required to tell you exactly how they will rule, and they simply refuse to answer that question. They didn’t do that. They pretended to answer. They planned to overturn Roe, and answered in a way to disguise that fact. It may very well have been a perfectly transparent disguise that everyone could see through, a polite fiction we accept as part of the sausage making process, but it doesn’t change the fact that they were deliberately disguising their intentions. Saying these were truthful statements is another polite fiction, like saying the guy trying to sell me an extended warranty on my car isn’t a scammer because he will actually sell me something that his company calls a warranty. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2022, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-become-politicized-vs-not-ruling-according-to-peoples-preferences/964208/102 "2022-05-12T16:34:08Z")
They are obligated to answer questions without lying, which they did. The Senators have the power of advice and consent, they chose to not consider questions that did not answer it in a simple yes/no as non-disqualifying. All of them fundamentally answered these questions the same way, which was never promising to not overturn Roe, and never saying anything that could even be construed as such. They simply confirmed that it was precedent and that there are important constitutional issues at play. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2022, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-become-politicized-vs-not-ruling-according-to-peoples-preferences/964208/103 "2022-05-12T17:37:49Z")
If you ever had kids would you let them get away with such equivocation? Your whole argument rests on a technicality that almost no one would let slide in real life. Yet, it seems you think something we would not let our children get away with is ok from a supreme court nominee. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2022, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-become-politicized-vs-not-ruling-according-to-peoples-preferences/964208/104 "2022-05-12T20:15:34Z")
Welcome to the world of high concept legislative/judiciary procedure, what can I say… ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2022, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-become-politicized-vs-not-ruling-according-to-peoples-preferences/964208/105 "2022-05-12T21:30:25Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Your whole argument rests on a technicality that almost no one would let slide in real life. Unless you’re in court, where legal technicalities are EVERYTHING. These folks are lawyers and they think and argue like lawyers. It is what it is. ---
**Author:** ![DeadTreasSecretaries](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deadtreassecretaries/32/4817_2.png) [@DeadTreasSecretaries](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeadTreasSecretaries)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2022, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-become-politicized-vs-not-ruling-according-to-peoples-preferences/964208/106 "2022-05-12T21:35:56Z")
They get off on technicalities. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2022, 12:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-become-politicized-vs-not-ruling-according-to-peoples-preferences/964208/107 "2022-05-13T12:08:25Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > They are obligated to answer questions without lying, which they did. They are pitching themselves to be granted a lifelong appointment to the highest court in the land. The people of this country deserve more than “I answered your questions in a way that shields me from effective prosecution” and “I technically fulfilled my obligations”. My take is that they’re shady fucks, who openly lied about their intentions to our Senators, not that they can be successfully prosecuted for perjury. Bravo, they crafted their lies well enough to avoid charges, such a banner day for the USA. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2022, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-become-politicized-vs-not-ruling-according-to-peoples-preferences/964208/108 "2022-05-13T12:16:45Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > My take is that they’re shady fucks, who openly lied about their intentions to our Senators, not that they can be successfully prosecuted for perjury. Bravo, they crafted their lies well enough to avoid charges, such a banner day for the USA. The country was founded by a bunch of lawyers to serve the purposes of elite white men. The founders would be proud. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2022, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-become-politicized-vs-not-ruling-according-to-peoples-preferences/964208/109 "2022-05-13T16:36:14Z")
The people whose job it is to decide what questions they have to answer were fine with the answers given. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2022, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-become-politicized-vs-not-ruling-according-to-peoples-preferences/964208/110 "2022-05-13T16:44:20Z")
Well, except all the people who voted against them, as well as two who claimed that they were deceived. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2022, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-become-politicized-vs-not-ruling-according-to-peoples-preferences/964208/111 "2022-05-13T16:58:27Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > The people whose job it is to decide what questions they have to answer were fine with the answers given. They were put up there to lie, they lied, and the people who wanted them to lie accepted their work. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2022, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-become-politicized-vs-not-ruling-according-to-peoples-preferences/964208/112 "2022-05-13T17:01:09Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Well, except all the people who voted against them, as well as two who claimed that they were deceived. Yes that is how a legislature works. The side who gets outvoted loses the vote. > [@Cheesesteak](#): > > > [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > > > The people whose job it is to decide what questions they have to answer were fine with the answers given. > > They were put up there to lie, they lied, and the people who wanted them to lie accepted their work. When there is a clearly stated and understood norm that they will not directly answer how they will rule in a specific case, then them…upholding that norm is not some big violation. Note that Democratic nominees do and have done the same thing. It’s silly that you guys are so obsessed with wanting to pillory this specific aspect of the Supreme Court nominations of these regrettable justices. The thing to dislike is the Republican partisan politics of it, the justices refusing to give specific promises on how they would vote is actually a good thing. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2022, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-become-politicized-vs-not-ruling-according-to-peoples-preferences/964208/113 "2022-05-13T17:23:38Z")
To paraphrase Obama, I can hate more than one thing at a time. We can also agree to disagree on the how they would vote bit. Lifetime appointment? Knowing your position on major issues matters. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2022, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-become-politicized-vs-not-ruling-according-to-peoples-preferences/964208/114 "2022-05-13T17:28:42Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > Yes that is how a legislature works. The side who gets outvoted loses the vote. I note that you don’t bother to address the two yes votes that claim that they were deceived. And yes, it is how legislature works, in that, if they have a majority who don’t care that they are voting for liars, they can elect them. > [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > Note that Democratic nominees do and have done the same thing. It’s silly that you guys are so obsessed with wanting to pillory this specific aspect of the Supreme Court nominations of these regrettable justices. There is no “obsession” here. The obsession is on your side in the claim that there was _no_ deception. Why is it so important to you that you will go to such ridiculous lengths to defend it? Seriously, what would have changed if, in the nomination hearings, they had said, “I think that Roe v Wade is a bad decision, and I would overrule it if it comes up?” How many votes do you think it would have changed? Kavanaugh could have done a keg stand while groping Sen. Warren and declaring that he would outlaw abortion across the land, and still would have gotten the same votes. The point is, is that this gives the Republicans the ability to talk out of both sides of their mouth. “We didn’t know when we confirmed him that he would strike down Roe V Wade, he said it was settled law.” While knowing full well that was exactly what they were there for. The disappointment is not that the SCOTUS nominees were deliberately misleading, that’s expected, given who nominated them. It’s not even that the senators voted for them, that’s expected, given who they are. It’s that there are people who think that that is how things should be, and go to great lengths to defend it. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2022, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-become-politicized-vs-not-ruling-according-to-peoples-preferences/964208/115 "2022-05-13T17:35:43Z")
I continue to disagree. No nominees, whether nominated by Democrats or Republicans, would say how they would vote in a specific case. So, that isn’t at all germane. I don’t even think they were being weaselly. > [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > **Question to Nominee:** _Do you think Roe v. Wade was properly decided?_ No one asked that question, right? If they did, and the nominees said “yes”, then I would agree that they lied. I don’t know what they said to Murkowski and Collins in private – maybe they lied, maybe they said enough to give Collins a fig leaf, who knows. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2022, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-become-politicized-vs-not-ruling-according-to-peoples-preferences/964208/116 "2022-05-13T17:58:49Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > I continue to disagree. No nominees, whether nominated by Democrats or Republicans, would say how they would vote in a specific case. So, that isn’t at all germane. If you asked them if they thought that Dred Scott v. Sandford was properly decided, I think that the vast majority would give a straight answer. Just because Roe V Wade is much more likely to be relevant to their career as a SCOTUS doesn’t seem as though it makes it more irrelevant to answer. > [@RitterSport](#): > > No one asked that question, right? If they did, and the nominees said “yes”, then I would agree that they lied. I do believe that that exact question was asked. Or at least since I’m not up for delving pages of transcript, and going by NPR’s reporting, as described, " lito declined to say much directly about _Roe_ . He called it an “important precedent of the Supreme Court” but stopped short of calling it settled law." That was Alito, who later states without equivocation, “_Roe_ was egregiously wrong from the start,” Am I to believe that he had an epiphany that led him to that conclusion, when he just couldn’t when he was asked directly? Then there’s Kavanaugh, “He was asked repeatedly, by Democrats and Republicans alike, to comment on the decision and how he might rule.” And the answers given were equivocations about precedent and settled law. Or Gorsuch, " During Gorsuch’s confirmation hearing in early 2017, he refused to take a position on _Roe_ . He told Sen. Lindsey Graham, R-S.C., that he “would have walked out the door” had Trump asked him to overturn _Roe_ . Gorsuch took the uncontroversial line that _Roe_ is a precedent. Precedent is the “anchor of law,” he said. “It is the starting place for a judge.”" Or Barrett: “I can’t pre-commit or say, ‘Yes, I’m going in with some agenda,’ because I’m not,” which is a straight up lie, she certainly had an agenda. It is a bit disappointing that Republican talk out of both sides of their mouth on the issue as they do, but what makes me really concerned for the future of the country is that other people are falling for it. > [@RitterSport](#): > > I don’t know what they said to Murkowski and Collins in private – maybe they lied, maybe they said enough to give Collins a fig leaf, who knows. Well, they know, and they claim to have been deceived by what was said. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2022, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-become-politicized-vs-not-ruling-according-to-peoples-preferences/964208/117 "2022-05-13T18:04:07Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Well, they know, and they claim to have been deceived by what was said. They (the two senators) are either deceiving themselves or lying to the rest of us. > [@k9bfriender](#): > > It is a bit disappointing that Republican talk out of both sides of their mouth on the issue as they do, but what makes me really concerned for the future of the country is that other people are falling for it. No one is falling for their bullshit about this, except maybe the two senators, but I doubt they really fell for any of it. They were looking for a fig leaf and got it. I’m sure Collins thinks that Kavanaugh has now learned his lesson. Weasel words and non-answers are not lying. They’re just not. They may be weaselly, unsatisfying, etc., but it’s not lying. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2022, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-become-politicized-vs-not-ruling-according-to-peoples-preferences/964208/118 "2022-05-13T18:48:26Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > They (the two senators) are either deceiving themselves or lying to the rest of us. Seems a theme. > [@RitterSport](#): > > Weasel words and non-answers are not lying. They’re just not. They may be weaselly, unsatisfying, etc., but it’s not lying. I guess it comes down to, is it really a deception if everyone knows you are being deceptive? And I see that you agree with “weaselly” but I would certainly attribute being weaselly with being deceptive. YMMV. The fact that the probably didn’t cross the line into actual perjury, and even if they did, they would face no consequence isn’t what is at issue here. What is at issue is that we have these weaselly and deceptive people on SCOTUS. And not that there is much that we can do about it, I just didn’t expect it to be considered to be so acceptable. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2022, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-become-politicized-vs-not-ruling-according-to-peoples-preferences/964208/119 "2022-05-13T18:58:07Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Seriously, what would have changed if, in the nomination hearings, they had said, “I think that Roe v Wade is a bad decision, and I would overrule it if it comes up?” How many votes do you think it would have changed? Murkowski voted “present”, Collins yea. If those two (or Manchin + 1, probably less likely) had flipped, Kavanaugh would have failed confirmation. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2022, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-become-politicized-vs-not-ruling-according-to-peoples-preferences/964208/120 "2022-05-13T20:44:45Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > I note that you don’t bother to address the two yes votes that claim that they were deceived. Deliberately orchestrated votes in numbers too small to make a difference, but just large enough to allow Republicans to claim that there is diversity in the Republican Party. I’ve seen crap like this many times over the years. So called “rebels” don’t do jack shit without prior approval of the GOP. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-become-politicized-vs-not-ruling-according-to-peoples-preferences/964208.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-become-politicized-vs-not-ruling-according-to-peoples-preferences/964208.md?page=7)