# SCOTUS declines voter ID challenge **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [March 23, 2015, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-declines-voter-id-challenge/715811 "2015-03-23T20:24:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2015, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-declines-voter-id-challenge/715811/61 "2015-03-24T16:36:29Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Neither does it guarantee a right to vote. So when the Constitution says “[The right of citizens of the United States to vote in any primary or other election… shall not be denied](https://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/amendmentxxiv)”, what they’re actually saying is that there _isn’t_ a right to vote? > [@](#): > > However, since we already require people to have this documentation as a condition for being an independent human being, it should be assumed that people will already have these documents. And Congress will be voting on the Constitutional amendment codifying that assumption when, exactly? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2015, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-declines-voter-id-challenge/715811/62 "2015-03-24T16:37:47Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > If we wanted to make it difficult, we’d start by, you know, making it difficult. Requiring ID to vote to prevent voting is akin to putting cigarettes behind the counter to prevent smoking. You have a Constitutional right to vote. You do _not_ have a Constitutional right to smoke. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2015, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-declines-voter-id-challenge/715811/63 "2015-03-24T16:38:35Z")
They don’t need to. Voting can be, and is, regulated, as it should be. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2015, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-declines-voter-id-challenge/715811/64 "2015-03-24T16:40:02Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > You have a Constitutional right to vote. You do _not_ have a Constitutional right to smoke. Really? Then how come your Cuban neighbor can’t vote if it’s a right. He has freedom of religion, he has freedom of speech, he has freedom of assembly, you need a warrant to search his home, he has a right to a fair trial by jury of his peers, he has the right not to be discriminated against by the government. So why can’t he vote? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2015, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-declines-voter-id-challenge/715811/65 "2015-03-24T16:41:36Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > If we wanted to make it difficult, we’d start by, you know, making it difficult. Requiring ID to vote to prevent voting is akin to putting cigarettes behind the counter to prevent smoking. Not about “preventing”. Which is what I said, in the post that you quoted. Apparently, without reading? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2015, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-declines-voter-id-challenge/715811/66 "2015-03-24T16:42:12Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Really? Then how come your Cuban neighbor can’t vote if it’s a right. He has freedom of religion, he has freedom of speech, he has freedom of assembly, you need a warrant to search his home, he has a right to a fair trial by jury of his peers, he has the right not to be discriminated against by the government. So why can’t he vote? I had no idea Ted Cruz wasn’t allowed to vote. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2015, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-declines-voter-id-challenge/715811/67 "2015-03-24T16:48:25Z")
Cute. But the reason is that voting is a benefit conferred by citizenship, and it is subject to other qualifications. The only sense in which it is a right is that governments cannot discriminate in their regulations. That’s why poll taxes and literacy tests are illegal. Those actually create barriers. An ID requirement does not except for the tiniest fraction of voters, and every one of them can get an ID cheaply, or even free, depending on the state, with documents they are already required to have in their possession. Since they are required to get health insurance, now everyone has them. By passing ACA, you made having “papers” the law of the land. Congratulations. So there’s no longer any excuse. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2015, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-declines-voter-id-challenge/715811/68 "2015-03-24T16:54:26Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Cute. But the reason is that voting is a benefit conferred by citizenship, and it is subject to other qualifications. And which “other qualifications” does the Constitution establish that allow you to call poll taxes under another name legal? > [@](#): > > An ID requirement does not except for the tiniest fraction of voters Any fraction larger than 0 is unacceptable. > [@](#): > > and every one of them can get an ID cheaply Meaning they have to pay the poll tax if they want to vote. > [@](#): > > with documents they are already required to have in their possession What documents are US citizens “required to have in their possession”? > [@](#): > > Since they are required to get health insurance, now everyone has them. By passing ACA, you made having “papers” the law of the land. Congratulations. So there’s no longer any excuse. The individual mandate doesn’t apply to people living below the poverty line - you know, the exact same “tiniest fraction” who can’t afford to pay your poll tax. ---
**Author:** ![Fool\_in\_the\_Rain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8491ac/32.png) [@Fool\_in\_the\_Rain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fool_in_the_Rain)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2015, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-declines-voter-id-challenge/715811/69 "2015-03-24T17:13:22Z")
> [@RickG](#): > > \ > > **There is a reason that voter ID laws have been exclusively passed by GOP legislative action.** Because they can’t win on the merits, they change the rules. Nitpick: be careful, it was not exclusively GOP. Rhode Island is a stalwart democratic state, and the voter ID laws were proposed by a Democratic Secretary of State, passed by the Democratic General Assembly and signed by the then Independent Governor Chafee (who soon after joined the Democratic Party). I live here, and watched this with interest - if memory serves me correctly, RI had a total of 12 GOP members to 101 Dems in the General Assembly at the time. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2015, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-declines-voter-id-challenge/715811/70 "2015-03-24T17:15:30Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > And which “other qualifications” does the Constitution establish that allow you to call poll taxes under another name legal? The Constitution establishes little on voting other than that you can’t discriminate based on race or sex. What’s allowed by law is anything with a rational basis that does not have a discriminatory effect. Which is why some voter ID laws are upheld and others are not. A system that required no verification of identity at any part of the process would be nonsensical. > [@](#): > > Any fraction larger than 0 is unacceptable. Then you basically need to just automatically log votes without people actually having to make the effort to so much as raise their hands. Because any requirement, even mail-in, imposes a small obstacle. Takes something to write with, for starters. It’s enough of an “obstacle” that more than half of Coloradans declined to vote in 2014. > [@](#): > > Meaning they have to pay the poll tax if they want to vote. The solution to that is to make acquiring all required documents for carrying on with a basic life free. > [@](#): > > What documents are US citizens “required to have in their possession”? For starters, your proof of health insurance. > [@](#): > > The individual mandate doesn’t apply to people living below the poverty line - you know, the exact same “tiniest fraction” who can’t afford to pay your poll tax. They have to prove that too. You either prove insurance coverage, or you prove poverty. The government doesn’t just take your word for in either case. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2015, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-declines-voter-id-challenge/715811/71 "2015-03-24T17:19:40Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > About this: > > Where did these numbers come from? Those were the findings of the district court judge in Frank v. Walker. The judge’s ruling is here: > **[frankvwalker.pdf](https://electionlawblog.org/wp-content/uploads/frankvwalker.pdf)** > > 393.28 KB ---
**Author:** ![RickG](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rickg/32/5174_2.png) [@RickG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickG)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2015, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-declines-voter-id-challenge/715811/72 "2015-03-24T17:23:58Z")
> [@Fool\_in\_the\_Rain](#): > > Nitpick: be careful, it was not exclusively GOP. Rhode Island is a stalwart democratic state, and the voter ID laws were proposed by a Democratic Secretary of State, passed by the Democratic General Assembly and signed by the then Independent Governor Chafee (who soon after joined the Democratic Party). > > I live here, and watched this with interest - if memory serves me correctly, RI had a total of 12 GOP members to 101 Dems in the General Assembly at the time. Huh. Ok, I stand corrected. Ignorance fought. Thank you. Is this the only counter-example? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2015, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-declines-voter-id-challenge/715811/73 "2015-03-24T17:27:10Z")
Most states have some kind of voter ID law, blue and red alike. But you are correct that except for RI, toughening up these laws has only been done by Republicans. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2015, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-declines-voter-id-challenge/715811/74 "2015-03-24T17:30:06Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > The Constitution establishes little on voting other than that you can’t discriminate based on race or sex. Or age provided that you’re over eighteen, or for reason other than participation in rebellion, or _for failure to pay a poll tax or any other tax_. > [@](#): > > Then you basically need to just automatically log votes without people actually having to make the effort to so much as raise their hands. Anything that makes it easier to vote is fine by me. Are you opposed to making voting easier? > [@](#): > > The solution to that is to make acquiring all required documents for carrying on with a basic life free. What documents are “required for carrying on with a basic life”, and what steps have Republicans taken to make acquiring them easier? > [@](#): > > For starters, your proof of health insurance. What law requires all US citizens to possess proof of health insurance? I’ll give you a hint; it’s not the ACA, because the ACA contains no such requirement. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2015, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-declines-voter-id-challenge/715811/75 "2015-03-24T17:41:13Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Or age provided that you’re over eighteen, or for reason other than participation in rebellion, or _for failure to pay a poll tax or any other tax_. Ah, good cite.🙂 Although you can discriminate based on age, sort of. A state can require a person to be mentally competent, and that affects aged voters most. > [@](#): > > Anything that makes it easier to vote is fine by me. Are you opposed to making voting easier? I’m not opposed to it, so much as I laugh at Democrats who think that their problem is the government’s problem. I’m only actually opposed when it creates holes in the system to be exploited. For example, same day registration has been found by investigators to be a fraud magnet: [http://www.jsonline.com/news/statepolitics/29543514.html](http://www.jsonline.com/news/statepolitics/29543514.html) Democrats’ response to Milwaukee police finding fraud was that they didn’t feel the police should be investigating voter fraud. All righty then. > [@](#): > > What documents are “required for carrying on with a basic life”, and what steps have Republicans taken to make acquiring them easier? Republicans aren’t the ones focused on voting and literally nothing else. Democrats have traditionally had zero sympathy for citizens trying to navigate the federal bureaucracy. > [@](#): > > What law requires all US citizens to possess proof of health insurance? I’ll give you a hint; it’s not the ACA, because the ACA contains no such requirement. You’re right on the letter of the law, wrong in spirit. Have you done your taxes yet? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2015, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-declines-voter-id-challenge/715811/76 "2015-03-24T17:59:34Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > Those were the findings of the district court judge in Frank v. Walker. > > The judge’s ruling is here: > > [http://electionlawblog.org/wp-content/uploads/frankvwalker.pdf](http://electionlawblog.org/wp-content/uploads/frankvwalker.pdf) I think it unlikely that the district court judge did his own, independent statistical analysis. I will certainly accept that if you show that it is so. Outside of that, s/he is accepting someone else’s numbers as Gospel. My question is: who’s? ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2015, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-declines-voter-id-challenge/715811/77 "2015-03-24T18:04:10Z")
> [@RickG](#): > > It’s not enough to give “free” IDs to people who jump through an expensive and time-consuming series of bureaucratic hoops. Conservatives should be happy with a democracy where voter turnout is high, and that requires, at least in part, that it be simple to vote (though I concede that many people don’t really give enough of a shit to ever vote, regardless of the relative ease of the process). If not enough people are voting when they DON’T have to show ID, why do you think more people will vote if you give them a free ID? > [@Smapti](#): > > I had no idea Ted Cruz wasn’t allowed to vote. Well, not _here…_ ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2015, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-declines-voter-id-challenge/715811/78 "2015-03-24T18:06:51Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > I’m not opposed to it, so much as I laugh at Democrats who think that their problem is the government’s problem. I’m only actually opposed when it creates holes in the system to be exploited. For example, same day registration has been found by investigators to be a fraud magnet: > > [http://www.jsonline.com/news/statepolitics/29543514.html](http://www.jsonline.com/news/statepolitics/29543514.html) I’ll say. They identified a whopping _sixteen_ votes cast by non-residents! Clearly, this is a problem that can only be solved by disfranchising tens of thousands. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2015, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-declines-voter-id-challenge/715811/79 "2015-03-24T18:13:23Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > The “Document Verification Petition Process” required to waive the fee still requires the applicant to provide a Social Security Number and proof of identity and residency. > > It’s a Catch-22 - you need to spend money to acquire the documents you need in order to be exempted from having to spend money. Here is your statement: > [@](#): > > “A free voter ID” is not a thing that exists. \*\*This is false. You are wrong. It is factually incorrect. \*\* You need an SSN, yes. [The Social Security Card is free.](https://faq.ssa.gov/link/portal/34011/34019/Article/3757/What-does-it-cost-to-get-a-Social-Security-card)[Proof of identity can be established by the following:](http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/drivers/drivers/apply/doc/proof-identity.htm) > [@](#): > > For REAL ID compliant and non-compliant cards: > A valid (or expired eight years or less) photo driver license or photo identification card issued by Wisconsin or another jurisdiction, except a province of the Dominion of Canada. > Valid U.S. passport or passport card. > Military discharge papers (including certified copy of federal form DD-214). > U.S. government and military dependent identification card. > Marriage certificate or certified copy of judgment of divorce. > Documents permitted under proof of name and date of birth, if it bears a photograph. > A parent or guardian having legal custody identifies person under the age of 18 and the parent or guardian shows a valid Wisconsin operator’s license or ID card. > Transportation Worker Identification Credential (TWIC Card), issued by the Department of Homeland Security/Transportation Security Administration. > A valid photo college ID card from any U.S. university, college or technical college. (Must contain student name and photograph). > Unexpired temporary driving license or ID card receipt, including receipts from other jurisdictions. > **Social Security Card issued by the Social Security Administration.** > W-2 form including the customer’s name, address and SSN. > SSA - 1099 form. > Non SSA-1099 form. > Paystub with the applicants name and entire Social Security Number listed. > Or provide BOTH of the below requirements: > An unexpired foreign passport with a valid unexpired U.S. visa affixed accompanied by the approved I-94 form documenting the applicant’s most recent admittance into the United States. > A document to demonstrate a non-work authorized status. Just to repeat - you are wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2015, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-declines-voter-id-challenge/715811/80 "2015-03-24T18:17:11Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > You need an SSN, yes. [The Social Security Card is free.](https://faq.ssa.gov/link/portal/34011/34019/Article/3757/What-does-it-cost-to-get-a-Social-Security-card) And are the documents required to get a Social Security card also free? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-declines-voter-id-challenge/715811.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-declines-voter-id-challenge/715811.md?page=5)