# SCOTUS has ruled against citizenship question. **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [June 27, 2019, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-has-ruled-against-citizenship-question/836158 "2019-06-27T15:06:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_what_you_d_expect/32/3246_2.png) [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_what_you_d_expect)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2019, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-has-ruled-against-citizenship-question/836158/1 "2019-06-27T15:06:19Z")
Well, this is good news. > #SCOTUS has ruled AGAINST adding the #CitizenshipQuestion to #Census2020. This is a major win for democracy, but the fight to ensure every voice is heard is not over. We must continue reassuring communities of color that census participation is safe, important, and necessary. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2019, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-has-ruled-against-citizenship-question/836158/2 "2019-06-27T15:22:14Z")
I don’t think the thread title fully or even accurately characterizes what happened today. > [@](#): > > Holding: The Secretary did not violate the Enumeration Clause or the Census Act in deciding to reinstate a citizenship question on the 2020 census questionnaire, but the District Court was warranted in remanding the case back to the agency where the evidence tells a story that does not match the Secretary’s explanation for his decision. > > Judgment: Affirmed in part, reversed in part, and remanded, 5-4, in an opinion by Chief Justice Roberts on June 27, 2019. Chief Justice Roberts delivered the opinion for a unanimous Court with respect to Parts I and II, > **[Department of Commerce v. New York - SCOTUSblog](https://www.scotusblog.com/case-files/cases/department-of-commerce-v-new-york/)** > > Independent News and Analysis on the U.S. Supreme Court They sent it back down because of new evidence that seems to contradict testimony provided. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2019, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-has-ruled-against-citizenship-question/836158/3 "2019-06-27T15:24:44Z")
So it was struck down, or merely postponed? ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2019, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-has-ruled-against-citizenship-question/836158/4 "2019-06-27T15:29:51Z")
And if the new evidence hadn’t emerged, by the way, the Justices said that the citizenship question _would not_ violate the Constitution. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2019, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-has-ruled-against-citizenship-question/836158/5 "2019-06-27T15:33:52Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > So it was struck down, or merely postponed? Remanded. > [@](#): > > Altogether, the ev-idence tells a story that does not match the Secretary’s explanation for his decision. Unlike a typical case in which an agency may have both stated and unstated reasons for a decision, here the VRA en-forcement rationale—the sole stated reason—seems to have been con-trived. The reasoned explanation requirement of administrative lawis meant to ensure that agencies offer genuine justifications for im-portant decisions, reasons that can be scrutinized by courts and the interested public. The explanation provided here was more of a dis-traction. In these unusual circumstances, the District Court was warranted in remanding to the agency. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2019, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-has-ruled-against-citizenship-question/836158/6 "2019-06-27T16:07:18Z")
In other words, “Try again, but do your homework better?” ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2019, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-has-ruled-against-citizenship-question/836158/7 "2019-06-27T16:15:33Z")
I thought the Census Bureau had to get the forms printed before the end of the month. Even if the lower court allows the question, isn’t it too late anyway? Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2019, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-has-ruled-against-citizenship-question/836158/8 "2019-06-27T17:08:28Z")
I certainly hope so! By the time the agency resubmits everything, and the challenges are filed it will be too late for this census. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2019, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-has-ruled-against-citizenship-question/836158/9 "2019-06-27T17:12:09Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > I certainly hope so! By the time the agency resubmits everything, and the challenges are filed it will be too late for this census. AIUI, there is no official deadline for the agency to have it done by the end of June. They could have it done even by October. Quite frankly, I’m not sure even why it would take long at all. The machinery required to print 300 million forms sounds like something that could be done in a matter of mere days. Certainly there are businesses and industries that churn out that sort of production regularly. ---
**Author:** ![not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_what_you_d_expect/32/3246_2.png) [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_what_you_d_expect)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2019, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-has-ruled-against-citizenship-question/836158/10 "2019-06-27T19:55:16Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > **I don’t think the thread title fully or even accurately characterizes what happened today**.[Department of Commerce v. New York - SCOTUSblog](https://www.scotusblog.com/case-files/cases/department-of-commerce-v-new-york/) > > They sent it back down because of new evidence that seems to contradict testimony provided. Bolding Mine. Yes, you’re right Bo, I apologize. I did not have a clear understanding of the ruling before I posted. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2019, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-has-ruled-against-citizenship-question/836158/11 "2019-06-27T20:23:27Z")
Trumps wants to see if the census can be delayed until the administration has time to address the courts questions about the validity of including the citizenship question. As the census is governed by Article 1 Section 2 of the Constitution: > [@](#): > > The actual Enumeration shall be made within three Years after the first Meeting of the Congress of the United States, and within every subsequent Term of ten Years, in such Manner as they shall by Law direct. It appears that it would be required within 10 years of the last census. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2019, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-has-ruled-against-citizenship-question/836158/12 "2019-06-27T20:27:06Z")
“Aye, but what does ‘10 years’ really mean? And what about ‘in such Manner as they shall by Law direct’? I know: we can just pass a law that says we do it every 20 years and if that’s a problem we’ll pass a law defining 10 years as being 20 years. Done and done.” ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2019, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-has-ruled-against-citizenship-question/836158/13 "2019-06-27T20:28:29Z")
> [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](#): > > Bolding Mine. > Yes, you’re right Bo, I apologize. I did not have a clear understanding of the ruling before I posted. Totally understandable error, IMO. Good on you for coming back to acknowledge it. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2019, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-has-ruled-against-citizenship-question/836158/14 "2019-06-27T21:14:25Z")
For references’ sake, [here are the “key dates” from the 2010 census](https://www.census.gov/programs-surveys/decennial-census/decade/2010/about-2010.html): > [@](#): > > September 26, 2005 - The Census Bureau awards a $500+ million contract to the Lockheed Martin Corporation for the 2010 Census Decennial Response Integration System (DRIS). > > September 6, 2007 - The Census Bureau awarded its 2010 Census communications contract, worth an estimated $200 million, to Draftfcb of New York. > > March 30, 2009 - The Census Bureau launches a massive operation to verify and update more than 145 million addresses as it prepares to mail out 2010 census questionnaires. > > July 23, 2009 - The Census Bureau began printing 2010 Census questionnaires. > > October 26, 2009 - The Census Bureau launches the 2010 Census Web Site. > > January 17, 2010 - First 2010 Census television advertisement airs during NBC’s Golden Globe Awards broadcast. > > January 18, 2010 - The 2010 census advertising campaign officially launches. > > January 25, 2010 - Remote Alaska enumeration begins. > > March 1, 2010 - 2010 census questionnaires begin arriving in mailboxes throughout the United States and Island Areas. > > March 8, 2010 - Advance letters are mailed to 120 million addresses nationwide, notifying households that 2010 Census forms will be arriving March 15 -17. > > April 1, 2010 - Census Day. Households are asked to supply data in their census questionnaire that is accurate as of April 1. > > April 30, 2010 - Enumerators begin door-to-door operations to collect census data from households to follow up with households that either didn’t mail back their form or didn’t receive one. > > July 30, 2010 - The toll-free telephone assistance line is closed, ending 2010 census data collection. More than 130,000 interviews were completed via the toll-free line. > > August 10, 2010 - The Census Bureau announces that it will return $1.6 billion to the U.S. Treasury as a result of lower-than-expected census costs. > > October 21, 2010 - The final 2010 census mail response rate is announced as 74 percent - matching Census 2000’s rate. > > December 21, 2010 - The Census Bureau announces the 2010 population counts and delivers the apportionment counts to the president. ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2019, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-has-ruled-against-citizenship-question/836158/15 "2019-06-27T23:03:17Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > AIUI, there is no official deadline for the agency to have it done by the end of June. They could have it done even by October. > > Quite frankly, I’m not sure even why it would take long at all. The machinery required to print 300 million forms sounds like something that could be done in a matter of mere days. Certainly there are businesses and industries that churn out that sort of production regularly. From NYT: > [@](#): > > Some of the census forms require high-quality printing equipment that is not commonly available; in 2010, the bureau had to use virtually every such printer in the nation to complete its work. Nor is rescheduling the work a simple matter, because printing companies have contracts to serve other customers that have been scheduled for times when census forms are not being printed. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2019, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-has-ruled-against-citizenship-question/836158/16 "2019-06-27T23:08:26Z")
> [@AlsoNamedBort](#): > > From NYT: Have you been living under a rock? Print media has been a dying industry. I’m sure that printer capacity today is very much different than it was in 2009/2010. My point is that you can’t take statistics from 10 years ago and make a comparison to today’s environment. ---
**Author:** ![Grestarian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grestarian/32/3227_2.png) [@Grestarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grestarian)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2019, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-has-ruled-against-citizenship-question/836158/17 "2019-06-27T23:24:14Z")
I’m seeing some notes that, in addition to The Citizenship Question scandal, another is that the company contracted to print the census forms went out of business. Was that a no-bid contract? Did they actually take the $61M and then say, “Gosh, we’re outta money. Bye guys!” (or does payment come afterward? Who can afford all that paper and ink without an advance on the contract?) In any case, that would seem to cause enough of a delay on its own. And while it’s ideal for the Decennial Census to be held and wrapped-up within a X0 year, Perhaps it’s sufficient to have it mailed & delivered within 2020 with responses being tabulated and delivered shortly after Feb 1 of the next year? Is there something stating clearly that the results have to beon the President’s desk before the x0 year is over? –G! ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2019, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-has-ruled-against-citizenship-question/836158/18 "2019-09-13T17:55:36Z")
Bumped. Here’s CNN on the CJ’s decisive vote: [How John Roberts killed the census citizenship question | CNN Politics](https://www.cnn.com/2019/09/12/politics/john-roberts-census-citizenship-supreme-court/index.html)