# SCOTUS - Kachalsky v Cacace (2nd ammendment bear case) **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 5, 2013, 9:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-kachalsky-v-cacace-2nd-ammendment-bear-case/649372 "2013-02-05T09:05:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 4\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2013, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-kachalsky-v-cacace-2nd-ammendment-bear-case/649372/81 "2013-02-11T02:22:04Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > It’s important to note that the existence of a circuit split does not automatically mean SCOTUS will grant cert. SCOTUS has allowed [a _three-way_ circuit split](http://federalevidence.com/node/1351) on a major constitutional issue to stand since 1989 (whether evidence that a defendant remained silent prior to receiving a _Miranda_ warning may be admitted by the government for other than impeachment purposes). > > Yes, technically (assuming it _is_ a violation), it would be a violation of the Due Process Clause of the 14th (the substantive right to keep and bear arms having been incorporated under _McDonald v. Chicago_.) It doesn’t change the analysis, though, just the formal pleading requirements. Yes, a circuit split only increases the likelihood, so I’ve been lead to believe. I think it could run afoul of both the 2nd and the 14th. The 14th if it’s being applied unevenly, and the 2nd if no permits are granted whatsoever. I actually think Moore in Chicago would be a better case to take to SCOTUS since in Chicago it is a 100% ban, rather than discretionary issue like NYC. But Moore won 🙂 Though it may go en banc - I think both parties have submitted their arguments in favor and against en banc review - I dont think the court has ruled on it yet. The deadline I thought was 3 days ago, so they may have let it pass meaning no en banc. > [@](#): > > Not quite. Finding that self-defense must be deemed a valid ground for issuance of a permit doesn’t mean the other requirements no longer need to be met. True. It does overcome the major hurdle and if the licensing authority plays games with the other requirements they’d get sued again. The details of such an opinion would control how it gets handled. But at some point the city has to not like paying millions in attorney’s fees. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2013, 11:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-kachalsky-v-cacace-2nd-ammendment-bear-case/649372/82 "2013-02-11T11:11:52Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > It’s good then, that one of the core purposes of the 2nd amendment is self defense. See Heller. That was my point. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2013, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-kachalsky-v-cacace-2nd-ammendment-bear-case/649372/83 "2013-03-01T16:50:56Z")
[Update: the 7th Circuit refused en banc review of Moore, so the split remains](http://www.abajournal.com/news/article/full_7th_circuit_declines_to_review_appellate_decision_striking_illinois_co/?utm_source=maestro&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=weekly_email). ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2013, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-kachalsky-v-cacace-2nd-ammendment-bear-case/649372/84 "2013-04-15T20:08:46Z")
[SCOTUSBlog reports that cert was denied](http://www.scotusblog.com/2013/04/court-avoids-gun-rights-dispute/). No idea how the split gets resolved at this point. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-kachalsky-v-cacace-2nd-ammendment-bear-case/649372.md?page=4)