# SCOTUS nominations have become political? Only since Bork. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 3, 2016, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-nominations-have-become-political-only-since-bork/753741 "2016-05-03T01:01:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2016, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-nominations-have-become-political-only-since-bork/753741/141 "2016-05-08T00:26:22Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > The Establishment clause. Congress did pass a law regarding an establishment of religion, which the constitution says they may not do. Which law was that? ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2016, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-nominations-have-become-political-only-since-bork/753741/142 "2016-05-08T00:37:10Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Probably, yes, since I tend to assume my audience is smart enough to understand what statements are meant as opinion, and what statements are meant as objective fact, without me having to explicitly tag them as such. > > I admit, this is an assumption that has bitten me in the ass before, though. Is it that hard for people to express their opinions with qualifiers like “I think”, “I believe”, or simply IMO? Flat-out declarations of “facts” without cites are ridiculous in a debate forum. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2016, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-nominations-have-become-political-only-since-bork/753741/143 "2016-05-08T01:11:28Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > The key thing is that you can’t back up **any** of your opinions. Anyone who is capable of reading simple text can see that Congress did exactly what the constitution says they can’t. The contradiction between the Establishment Clause and the 1955 law putting religious text on the currency is what backs me up. You obviously do not agree, but you aren’t actually arguing against me, just making noises. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2016, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-nominations-have-become-political-only-since-bork/753741/144 "2016-05-08T01:13:50Z")
To add: I’ve never denied that this is “my opinion.” The Supreme Court has issued “their opinion” and that’s the one that has weight in force of law. (Except when a clerk in Georgia says it doesn’t…) ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2016, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-nominations-have-become-political-only-since-bork/753741/145 "2016-05-08T01:20:24Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > To add: I’ve never denied that this is “my opinion.” The Supreme Court has issued “their opinion” and that’s the one that has weight in force of law. > > (Except when a clerk in Georgia says it doesn’t…) A clerk in Georgia? What are you talking about? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2016, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-nominations-have-become-political-only-since-bork/753741/146 "2016-05-08T01:54:21Z")
Kentucky, too. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2016, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-nominations-have-become-political-only-since-bork/753741/147 "2016-05-08T02:14:54Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > Is it that hard for people to express their opinions with qualifiers like “I think”, “I believe”, or simply IMO? > > Flat-out declarations of “facts” without cites are ridiculous in a debate forum. Oops, you failed to add one of the magic phrases. Your last sentence should have been: 1. I think flat-out declarations of “facts” without cites are ridiculous in a debate forum; 2. I beleive flat-out declarations of “facts” without cites are ridiculous in a debate forum; or 3. IMO, flat-out declarations of “facts” without cites are ridiculous in a debate forum. Please be considerate of all the people in this forum who, according to you and Bricker, are just plain too stupid to be able to tell the difference between a fact and an opinion. Of course if it’s a factual statement…cite? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2016, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-nominations-have-become-political-only-since-bork/753741/148 "2016-05-08T02:43:02Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Who is “us,” in the preceding? > > [Some 90% of people polled appear to favor](http://www.gallup.com/poll/9391/americans-approve-public-displays-religious-symbols.aspx) inclusion of the phrase. By your cite, 8% of the U.S. population, apparently, so 25 million? What’s the threshold for “a great many” ? > [@](#): > > I’d say that the answer to your question is clear: it’s not an establishment of religion. > > That’s a factual assertion based on the state of current case law. You may wish, or believe, that the Court should find differently. But you cannot truthfully say that it’s unconstitutional as a matter of law. It can be both an establishment of religion _and_ constitutional as a matter of law, since law is an arbitrary construct not undone by internal contradiction. Of course the _real_ problem is the U.S. Constitution is a “broad stroke” document, laying out guidelines in text that occasionally border on the poetic. If “judicial activism” is a serious concern, the solution is to deny the judiciary the necessary wiggle room by rewriting the clauses in far greater detail. Take the lead from Alabama on this one: their state constitution is about 40 times longer than the federal one, and really gets into the nitty-gritty of governance. Plus it gets amended, like, a _lot_ so you know it’s heavily responsive to the will of the people and must be _super_ democratic as a result. Yes, Alabama… beacon of freedom since [del]1819[/del] [del]1861[/del] [del]1865[/del] [del]1868[/del] [del]1875[/del] 1901. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2016, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-nominations-have-become-political-only-since-bork/753741/149 "2016-05-08T03:28:10Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Kentucky, too. I didn’t ask you, I asked **Triponus** , who has so far failed to respond. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2016, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-nominations-have-become-political-only-since-bork/753741/150 "2016-05-08T03:37:28Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > I didn’t ask you, I asked **Triponus** , who has so far failed to respond. I was adding to Trinopus’s statement, not answering your question. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2016, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-nominations-have-become-political-only-since-bork/753741/151 "2016-05-08T04:09:22Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > I didn’t ask you, I asked **Triponus** , who has so far failed to respond. Post 143. ETA: Also post 144. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2016, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-nominations-have-become-political-only-since-bork/753741/152 "2016-05-08T04:38:50Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > Post 143. > > ETA: Also post 144. Which clerk in Georgia? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2016, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-nominations-have-become-political-only-since-bork/753741/153 "2016-05-08T04:44:52Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > Which clerk in Georgia? Yes, Trinopus, answer the IMPORTANT question! Eyes on the prize! ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2016, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-nominations-have-become-political-only-since-bork/753741/154 "2016-05-08T04:53:01Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Yes, Trinopus, answer the IMPORTANT question! Eyes on the prize! Opinions trump facts, right? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2016, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-nominations-have-become-political-only-since-bork/753741/155 "2016-05-08T04:56:27Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > Opinions trump facts, right? They do? News to me. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2016, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-nominations-have-become-political-only-since-bork/753741/156 "2016-05-08T04:58:15Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > They do? News to me. You tell me. What is he on about a clerk in Georgia? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2016, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-nominations-have-become-political-only-since-bork/753741/157 "2016-05-08T05:02:13Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > What is he on about a clerk in Georgia? I don’t know what specific case he is referencing but it wouldn’t shock me to hear a clerk in Georgia defied a SCOTUS ruling. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2016, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-nominations-have-become-political-only-since-bork/753741/158 "2016-05-08T05:04:10Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > I don’t know what specific case he is referencing but it wouldn’t shock me to hear a clerk in Georgia defied a SCOTUS ruling. Or, he’s completely wrong, which is more likely than not. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2016, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-nominations-have-become-political-only-since-bork/753741/159 "2016-05-08T05:14:05Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > Or, he’s completely wrong, which is more likely than not. I don’t have enough data to predict a probability, nor enough personal bias against Trinopus to want him to be wrong. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2016, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-nominations-have-become-political-only-since-bork/753741/160 "2016-05-08T05:15:44Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > I don’t have enough data to predict a probability, nor enough personal bias against Trinopus to want him to be wrong. He’s wrong, but let’s see if he answers, or if he runs away. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-nominations-have-become-political-only-since-bork/753741.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-nominations-have-become-political-only-since-bork/753741.md?page=9)