# SCOTUS to hear case of praying ex-football coach (yet another "religious liberty" case) **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 16, 2022, 11:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-to-hear-case-of-praying-ex-football-coach-yet-another-religious-liberty-case/957891 "2022-01-16T11:02:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2022, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-to-hear-case-of-praying-ex-football-coach-yet-another-religious-liberty-case/957891/201 "2022-10-28T16:36:26Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > > [@Jasmine](#): > > > > Quiz: What is absurd about this statement? šŸ™„ > > > [@](#): > > > > private religious expression > > is the opposite of > > > [@](#): > > > > praying in public - Not if you handwave hard enough. ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2022, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-to-hear-case-of-praying-ex-football-coach-yet-another-religious-liberty-case/957891/202 "2022-10-28T16:50:11Z")
We have a winner! šŸ™‚ ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2022, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-to-hear-case-of-praying-ex-football-coach-yet-another-religious-liberty-case/957891/203 "2022-10-28T16:54:24Z")
His lawyer is really Humpty Dumpty. ā€œWhen _I_ use a wordā€¦ it means just what I choose it to mean ā€“ neither more nor less.ā€ ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2022, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-to-hear-case-of-praying-ex-football-coach-yet-another-religious-liberty-case/957891/204 "2022-10-28T16:56:37Z")
Channeling my inner Fundy; ā€˜If America isnā€™t a Christian nation for Christians then why did Jesus right the Constitution?ā€™ ---
**Author:** ![SoToasty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sotoasty/32/2803_2.png) [@SoToasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SoToasty)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2022, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-to-hear-case-of-praying-ex-football-coach-yet-another-religious-liberty-case/957891/205 "2022-10-28T19:23:27Z")
Love the right spelling (on purpose, or happy accident?) ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2022, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-to-hear-case-of-praying-ex-football-coach-yet-another-religious-liberty-case/957891/206 "2022-10-28T23:02:57Z")
On purpose. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2022, 6:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-to-hear-case-of-praying-ex-football-coach-yet-another-religious-liberty-case/957891/207 "2022-10-29T06:18:50Z")
> [@bump](#): > > BTWā€¦ I went to Bremerton this last July to see the USS Turner Joy and the Puget Sound Naval Museum. Nice place! I was very pleasantly surprised by the town. I also visited the Turner Joy when I was in the Seattle area back in 2013. Bremerton was the only place in the area I didnā€™t smell any pot. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2022, 6:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-to-hear-case-of-praying-ex-football-coach-yet-another-religious-liberty-case/957891/208 "2022-10-29T06:45:39Z")
You (probably) thought you were joking: Title: **Mike Pence says Americans donā€™t have a right to freedom from religion** > **[Watch: Mike Pence declares that Americans have no right to 'freedom from...](https://www.salon.com/2022/10/27/mike-pence-says-americans-dont-have-a-right-to-freedom-from-religion_partner/)** > > Former Vice President Mike Pence claimed during a Wednesday appearance on Fox Business that the First Amendment to the United States Constitution does not protect Americans from having other people's faiths forced upon them. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2022, 6:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-to-hear-case-of-praying-ex-football-coach-yet-another-religious-liberty-case/957891/209 "2022-10-29T06:54:48Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > You (probably) thought you were joking: Nope, Iā€™ve been hearing this shit from conservative fundies since the 1970ā€™s . . . IOW all my life. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2022, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-to-hear-case-of-praying-ex-football-coach-yet-another-religious-liberty-case/957891/210 "2022-10-29T20:52:14Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > Short answer: Whatā€™s _not_ absurd? Iā€™m not sure that follows though. A person can make their own private choice to pray, the fact that it is _performed_ in public doesnā€™t change the fact that it is their own private choice of religious expression. (e.g. I have a right to my own private choice to eat what I want, including eating it in public.) Now when it co-opts, pressures or otherwise influences _others_, that is when it stops being private in my opinion. (which I believe it does in this case) ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2022, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-to-hear-case-of-praying-ex-football-coach-yet-another-religious-liberty-case/957891/211 "2022-10-29T22:09:45Z")
Protestors who block traffic to try to make their point should stop chanting and start praying. Itā€™s just their private choice of religious expression to pray in the middle of a public road. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2022, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-to-hear-case-of-praying-ex-football-coach-yet-another-religious-liberty-case/957891/212 "2022-10-29T22:30:05Z")
Iā€™m just waiting for some couple to have sex on the 50 yard line right after a game, and then appeal their arrest on the grounds that, as set in this precedent, they were in private. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2022, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-to-hear-case-of-praying-ex-football-coach-yet-another-religious-liberty-case/957891/213 "2022-10-30T13:53:01Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Protestors who block traffic to try to make their point should stop chanting and start praying. Itā€™s just their private choice of religious expression to pray in the middle of a public road By the standard I state above, those people praying in the middle of the road are having a negative effect on others. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2022, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-to-hear-case-of-praying-ex-football-coach-yet-another-religious-liberty-case/957891/214 "2022-10-30T13:58:29Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Iā€™m just waiting for some couple to have sex on the 50 yard line right after a game, and then appeal their arrest on the grounds that, as set in this precedent, they were in private. Same as above, I think a reasonable person would say that having sex in public could be considered as having a negative effect on others (plus, there may be a consideration as to whether the half way line is perhaps private property) I donā€™t think that the same could be said for someone making a personal choice to pray in public. I think people should definitely have a protected right to do so. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2022, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-to-hear-case-of-praying-ex-football-coach-yet-another-religious-liberty-case/957891/215 "2022-10-30T14:53:37Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > Same as above, I think a reasonable person would say that having sex in public could be considered as having a negative effect on others (plus, there may be a consideration as to whether the half way line is perhaps private property) > > I donā€™t think that the same could be said for someone making a personal choice to pray in public. I think people should definitely have a protected right to do so Really? What negative impact is caused by seeing a couple having sex? I guess it might offend someone - sort of like seeing someone pray might offend someone. Of course, casual displays of sexuality are frowned upon by the moral code of Christianity; while seeing someone pray is, of course, NOT frowned upon by Christianity. But why should that be the standard? ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2022, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-to-hear-case-of-praying-ex-football-coach-yet-another-religious-liberty-case/957891/216 "2022-10-30T15:23:21Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Really? What negative impact is caused by seeing a couple having sex? This is where the ā€œreasonable personā€ test comes in to it. Do we think a reasonable person considers live graphic sex in a public place to be the equivalent of a person standing silently and praying by themselves in the same place? As a social species we set some generally agreed limits of what constitutes ā€œacceptableā€ as regards certain bodily functions and activities. Iā€™m OK with sex being on one side of the line and personal prayer being on the other, even if Iā€™m not personally offended by nudity and sex. It is abitrary I readily admit. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2022, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-to-hear-case-of-praying-ex-football-coach-yet-another-religious-liberty-case/957891/217 "2022-10-30T15:44:43Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > Do we think a reasonable person considers live graphic sex in a public place to be the equivalent of a person standing silently and praying by themselves in the same place? No one was ā€œstanding silently and praying by themselvesā€ here, so thatā€™s a false comparison. I think in our society the vast majority of people would not consider these things (public sex and publically leading a prayer group) to be equivalent, because the vast majority of people either hold religious views, or hold moral views that are shaped by societyā€™s dominant religious views. We as a society are far more puritanical than we have any rational cause to be (and I include myself in that! I would also be more offended by a couple fucking on the field than a guy leading his team in praying, _but I recognize that this is just my hangup and not a rational point about how society should be run_.) ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2022, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-to-hear-case-of-praying-ex-football-coach-yet-another-religious-liberty-case/957891/218 "2022-10-30T15:56:14Z")
I donā€™t believe that a person who thinks that god can only hear their prayer if they make a big show of it could be described as a reasonable person. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2022, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-to-hear-case-of-praying-ex-football-coach-yet-another-religious-liberty-case/957891/219 "2022-10-30T15:58:47Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > No one was ā€œstanding silently and praying by themselvesā€ here, so thatā€™s a false comparison. hang on, I was referring to the wording in the following statement. > [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > protect the right of every American to engage in private religious expression, including praying in public Which seems perfectly fair to me as a general statement. In the case of of the coach however I clearly stated. > [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > Now when it co-opts, pressures or otherwise influences _others_, that is when it stops being private in my opinion. (which I believe it does in this case) So Iā€™ve been clear that the coach overstepped the line. > [@Babale](#): > > I think in our society the vast majority of people would not consider these things (public sex and publically leading a prayer group) Iā€™m going to stop you right there. I said _nothing at all_ about ā€œleading a prayer groupā€ ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2022, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-to-hear-case-of-praying-ex-football-coach-yet-another-religious-liberty-case/957891/220 "2022-10-30T16:00:31Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > I donā€™t believe that a person who thinks that god can only hear their prayer if they make a big show of it could be described as a reasonable person Thatā€™s not the ā€œ[reasonable person](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reasonable_person)ā€ Iā€™m talking about, [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-to-hear-case-of-praying-ex-football-coach-yet-another-religious-liberty-case/957891.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-to-hear-case-of-praying-ex-football-coach-yet-another-religious-liberty-case/957891.md?page=12)