# SCOTUS to hear case of praying ex-football coach (yet another "religious liberty" case) **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 16, 2022, 11:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-to-hear-case-of-praying-ex-football-coach-yet-another-religious-liberty-case/957891 "2022-01-16T11:02:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2022, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-to-hear-case-of-praying-ex-football-coach-yet-another-religious-liberty-case/957891/121 "2022-04-25T15:13:57Z")
[Update: They will be hearing it today.](https://www.cnn.com/2022/04/25/politics/football-prayer-joe-kennedy-supreme-court/index.html) ---
**Author:** ![garygnu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garygnu/32/2924_2.png) [@garygnu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garygnu)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2022, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-to-hear-case-of-praying-ex-football-coach-yet-another-religious-liberty-case/957891/122 "2022-04-25T18:53:15Z")
They came in support and were physically attacked. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2022, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-to-hear-case-of-praying-ex-football-coach-yet-another-religious-liberty-case/957891/123 "2022-04-26T22:11:41Z")
"At the center of the case is former coach Joe Kennedy, who told CNN in an interview that “every American should be able to have faith in public and not to be worried about being fired over it.” No one has the power to stop his having faith in public, unless the gummint employs mind-reading goons who can zap him from afar every time he thinks “Praise Jesus!” ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2022, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-to-hear-case-of-praying-ex-football-coach-yet-another-religious-liberty-case/957891/124 "2022-04-26T22:48:53Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > No one has the power to stop his having faith in public, If a football coach prays alone in his head, does he make a sound? In all seriousness, for people this, the performative aspect of faith is most important. Other people must see just how devout you are. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2022, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-to-hear-case-of-praying-ex-football-coach-yet-another-religious-liberty-case/957891/125 "2022-04-26T23:00:25Z")
It’s what the right wing loonies, and by that I mean most right wing people, call 'virtue signalling". “Look, the only way my god knows I’m praying is if I make a big god damned show of it. So look at it. LOOK AT IT!” ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2022, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-to-hear-case-of-praying-ex-football-coach-yet-another-religious-liberty-case/957891/126 "2022-04-26T23:13:09Z")
That and the 11th Commandment: “Thou shalt proselytize, whether they like it or not.” ---
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2022, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-to-hear-case-of-praying-ex-football-coach-yet-another-religious-liberty-case/957891/127 "2022-04-26T23:13:52Z")
That’s what the Jews are using their space lasers for. ---
**Author:** ![snowthx](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowthx/32/10660_2.png) [@snowthx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snowthx)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2022, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-to-hear-case-of-praying-ex-football-coach-yet-another-religious-liberty-case/957891/128 "2022-04-26T23:25:42Z")
I am having trouble with the coach’s argument. The school (and all schools) do not allow teachers or other employees of the school to lead prayers on school grounds. I assume the football field is on school grounds, yes? My son played HS football. Before the games some of the moms would gather-up and go off to a corner for a prayer (that none of their sons got hurt, probably). I did not see any issue with that. Occasionally, some of the players would gather at one end of the field before the game for a prayer, or, something where they all took a knee and leaned-in, hand on the guy in front of you shoulder, and bowed your head. I am not sure if they were praying, or telling dirty jokes, but it was not led by a coach, from my recollection - just a bunch of kids in a group before the game. I am sure there was pressure to participate, and I think that is another aspect of this - if the coach leads a prayer, and you don’t participate, are players feeling like they may get less playing time as a result? If they can prove some of the players were getting more playing time by participating in the coach-led prayers, and non-participants were getting less playing time, I would think that would be a strong argument against the coach - preference for being more religious. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2022, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-to-hear-case-of-praying-ex-football-coach-yet-another-religious-liberty-case/957891/129 "2022-04-26T23:40:36Z")
Never mind that Jesus was quite explicitly clear what he thought of performative faith. ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2022, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-to-hear-case-of-praying-ex-football-coach-yet-another-religious-liberty-case/957891/130 "2022-04-27T00:19:55Z")
> [@snowthx](#): > > I am sure there was pressure to participate, and I think that is another aspect of this - if the coach leads a prayer, and you don’t participate, are players feeling like they may get less playing time as a result? If they can prove some of the players were getting more playing time by participating in the coach-led prayers, and non-participants were getting less playing time, I would think that would be a strong argument against the coach - preference for being more religious. It really doesn’t even matter if the participants are _actually_ getting more playing time - it’s inherently coercive for a coach to go out to the 50 yard line with the team for the traditional handshake and then kneel and pray. Even if he doesn’t _intend_ to coerce anyone\* I have a question that I haven’t seen answered anywhere - it’s my understanding that he made a vow to pray on 50 yard line after each game, and believes that waiting or praying anywhere else is breaking his vow. Is there some religious denomination that actually prohibits praying silently while standing ? Because it seems to me that would have been the perfect solution for him - if he doesn’t kneel and prays silently , he could pray on the field right after the game without even indirectly encouraging the students to pray. \*I long ago stopped being surprised by people being unintentionally coercive who don’t understand even when it’s explained to them. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2022, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-to-hear-case-of-praying-ex-football-coach-yet-another-religious-liberty-case/957891/131 "2022-04-27T00:25:18Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Never mind that Jesus was quite explicitly clear what he thought of performative faith. - Since when did that ever matter? ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2022, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-to-hear-case-of-praying-ex-football-coach-yet-another-religious-liberty-case/957891/132 "2022-04-27T01:00:33Z")
I never understood how religious Christians got out of this specific instruction from Jesus Himself: “And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full." ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Mouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mighty_mouse/32/7776_2.png) [@Mighty\_Mouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Mouse)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2022, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-to-hear-case-of-praying-ex-football-coach-yet-another-religious-liberty-case/957891/133 "2022-04-27T01:24:16Z")
Christianity as Christ preached it would have been a minor heretical Jewish cult. ---
**Author:** ![Bootb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e19b73/32.png) [@Bootb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bootb)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2022, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-to-hear-case-of-praying-ex-football-coach-yet-another-religious-liberty-case/957891/134 "2022-04-27T04:52:22Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > "At the center of the case is former coach Joe Kennedy, who told CNN in an interview that “every American should be able to have faith in public and not to be worried about being fired over it.” If he wants to practice his faith, maybe he should have been involved in a more grown-up profession, rather than one involving running around with a ball. “When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.” (I Cor. 13:11) ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2022, 8:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-to-hear-case-of-praying-ex-football-coach-yet-another-religious-liberty-case/957891/135 "2022-04-27T08:54:20Z")
Jesus wasn’t a True Christian. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2022, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-to-hear-case-of-praying-ex-football-coach-yet-another-religious-liberty-case/957891/136 "2022-04-27T13:38:37Z")
I mean, that’s technically true, as to be a Christian is to follow Christ. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2022, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-to-hear-case-of-praying-ex-football-coach-yet-another-religious-liberty-case/957891/137 "2022-04-27T13:42:54Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > I mean, that’s technically true, as to be a Christian is to follow Christ What if he was walking in a circle? ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2022, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-to-hear-case-of-praying-ex-football-coach-yet-another-religious-liberty-case/957891/138 "2022-04-27T13:54:58Z")
… “Lord, you said once I decided to follow you, You’d walk with me all the way. But I noticed that during the saddest and most troublesome times of my life, one set of footprints went around in circles. I don’t understand why." “I was doing donuts.” ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2022, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-to-hear-case-of-praying-ex-football-coach-yet-another-religious-liberty-case/957891/139 "2022-04-27T14:00:35Z")
As we’re already off topic: [![](https://i.imgflip.com/1a06jz.jpg) ](https://i.imgflip.com/1a06jz.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2022, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-to-hear-case-of-praying-ex-football-coach-yet-another-religious-liberty-case/957891/140 "2022-04-27T14:09:48Z")
That also goes a long way toward explaining the Arc of the Covenant. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-to-hear-case-of-praying-ex-football-coach-yet-another-religious-liberty-case/957891.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-to-hear-case-of-praying-ex-football-coach-yet-another-religious-liberty-case/957891.md?page=8)