# SCOTUS Wife Virginia Thomas asks Anita Hill to apologize - WTF? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 20, 2010, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-wife-virginia-thomas-asks-anita-hill-to-apologize-wtf/557798 "2010-10-20T16:56:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2010, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-wife-virginia-thomas-asks-anita-hill-to-apologize-wtf/557798/1 "2010-10-20T16:56:29Z")
[Story here](http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/39758243/ns/politics-more_politics/) I will start this in the Pit because it will lead to bad language and politics and such, but in a general way - what good could she possibly think would come from this? She has said she “was trying to extend an olive branch” with a voicemail that includes “I would love you to consider an apology sometime and some full explanation of why you did what you did with my husband” - regardless of politics or one’s personal beliefs about that past event, how tone-deaf can an individual be? ---
**Author:** ![Don\_t\_Call\_Me\_Shirley](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Don\_t\_Call\_Me\_Shirley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_t_Call_Me_Shirley)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2010, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-wife-virginia-thomas-asks-anita-hill-to-apologize-wtf/557798/2 "2010-10-20T17:14:38Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > [Story here](http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/39758243/ns/politics-more_politics/) > > I will start this in the Pit because it will lead to bad language and politics and such, but in a general way - what good could she possibly think would come from this? She has said she “was trying to extend an olive branch” with a voicemail that includes “I would love you to consider an apology sometime and some full explanation of why you did what you did with my husband” - regardless of politics or one’s personal beliefs about that past event, how tone-deaf can an individual be? She is a Tea Party activist, so she comes by teh stupid honestly. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2010, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-wife-virginia-thomas-asks-anita-hill-to-apologize-wtf/557798/3 "2010-10-20T17:26:13Z")
It seems to me she’s only “tone deaf” if you begin the analysis by assuming Ms. Hill was telling the truth. Let’s not. Let assume, instead, that Ms. Hill completely fabricated her accusations, made them up out of whole cloth, in an effort to derail Thomas’ nomination, without caring what effect her lies might have on Thomas personally, or on Thomas’ family. And, having failed to prevent Thomas’ confirmation, she has for nearly 20 years refused to acknowledge that her testimony was fabricated. Why is it “tone deaf” for Mrs. Thomas to ask for an apology under those circumstances? ---
**Author:** ![descamisado](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e480ec/32.png) [@descamisado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/descamisado)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2010, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-wife-virginia-thomas-asks-anita-hill-to-apologize-wtf/557798/4 "2010-10-20T17:26:58Z")
> [@Don\_t\_Call\_Me\_Shirley](#): > > She is a Tea Party activist, so she comes by teh stupid honestly. Lemme guess: now that Hill has said “No,” Mrs. Thomas will turn this into an election season partisan issue, saying liberals like Hill\* aren’t willing to compromise. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2010, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-wife-virginia-thomas-asks-anita-hill-to-apologize-wtf/557798/5 "2010-10-20T17:27:57Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > It seems to me she’s only “tone deaf” if you begin the analysis by assuming Ms. Hill was telling the truth. > > Let’s not. Let assume, instead, that Ms. Hill completely fabricated her accusations, made them up out of whole cloth, in an effort to derail Thomas’ nomination, without caring what effect her lies might have on Thomas personally. > > And, having failed to prevent Thomas’ confirmation, she has for nearly 20 years refused to acknowledge that her testimony was fabricated. > > Why is it “tone deaf” for Mrs. Thomas to ask for an apology under those circumstances? If Ms. Thomas was aware that Ms. Hill would, under no circumstances, be swayed to confirm that position, it would still be a silly action regardless of her (Thomas’) beliefs about what was really true. I have never heard the slightest indication that Ms. Hill had changed her position - quite the opposite - and her comments related to this event reinforce that. Such being the case, why the heck would Ms. Thomas think now would be a good time to say “c’mon, just between us - 'fess up”? All I got is that, given Thomas’ hardcore Tea Party involvement, this action is calculated to stir her base… ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Angel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d26b3c/32.png) [@Johnny\_Angel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Angel)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2010, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-wife-virginia-thomas-asks-anita-hill-to-apologize-wtf/557798/6 "2010-10-20T17:30:06Z")
Is it already time again for the Democrats and Republicans to swap positions on what counts as a publicity-whoring slut who is actually to ugly to be hit on? Where do the years go? ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2010, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-wife-virginia-thomas-asks-anita-hill-to-apologize-wtf/557798/7 "2010-10-20T17:30:15Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Why is it “tone deaf” for Mrs. Thomas to ask for an apology under those circumstances? Because Anita Hill has never, ever, ever indicated she ever fabricated anything in regards to Clarence Thomas. Asking for an apology when you know the person thinks they didn’t do anything wrong, is completely tone deaf. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2010, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-wife-virginia-thomas-asks-anita-hill-to-apologize-wtf/557798/8 "2010-10-20T17:34:04Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Let assume, instead, that Ms. Hill completely fabricated her accusations,… If we accept that assumption, then yes, Mrs. Thomas’s phone call could be seen in a different light. Now, tell us why we should make that assumption. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2010, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-wife-virginia-thomas-asks-anita-hill-to-apologize-wtf/557798/9 "2010-10-20T17:34:31Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > Because Anita Hill has never, ever, ever indicated she ever fabricated anything in regards to Clarence Thomas. Asking for an apology when you know the person thinks they didn’t do anything wrong, is completely tone deaf. But - arguendo - Hill knows she fabricated her testimony. If she “thinks she did nothing wrong,” it could not be because she knows she didn’t lie, but because she somehow rationalized that her lying served some higher purpose, some greater good. If that’s the case, it’s not unreasonable for Virginia to say, in effect, “Look, we both know you lied, and the event is far enough behind us that any greater good in maintaining the lie is past, so how about an apology?” ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2010, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-wife-virginia-thomas-asks-anita-hill-to-apologize-wtf/557798/10 "2010-10-20T17:35:08Z")
Whats Thomas supposed to do ,tell his wife the truth after lying in front of America repeatedly? It is good that he got on the court, so Scalia did not have to carry his own golf clubs these last few years. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2010, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-wife-virginia-thomas-asks-anita-hill-to-apologize-wtf/557798/11 "2010-10-20T17:35:33Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > If we accept that assumption, then yes, Mrs. Thomas’s phone call could be seen in a different light. > > Now, tell us why we should make that assumption. Because the OP said we could: > [@](#): > > …regardless of politics or one’s personal beliefs about that past event, how tone-deaf can an individual be? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2010, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-wife-virginia-thomas-asks-anita-hill-to-apologize-wtf/557798/12 "2010-10-20T17:37:18Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > Whats Thomas supposed to do ,tell his wife the truth after lying in front of America repeatedly? It is good that he got on the court, so Scalia did not have to carry his own golf clubs these last few years. That is an extremely offensive comment. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2010, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-wife-virginia-thomas-asks-anita-hill-to-apologize-wtf/557798/13 "2010-10-20T17:37:43Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > But - arguendo - Hill knows she fabricated her testimony. If she “thinks she did nothing wrong,” it could not be because she knows she didn’t lie, but because she somehow rationalized that her lying served some higher purpose, some greater good. > > If that’s the case, it’s not unreasonable for Virginia to say, in effect, “Look, we both know you lied, and the event is far enough behind us that any greater good in maintaining the lie is past, so how about an apology?” Okay. Got it. In this case, you are also tone deaf. Yes, it would still be unreasonable in the situation you describe. Carry on. ---
**Author:** ![PlainJain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/5daacb/32.png) [@PlainJain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PlainJain)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2010, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-wife-virginia-thomas-asks-anita-hill-to-apologize-wtf/557798/14 "2010-10-20T17:38:29Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Why is it “tone deaf” for Mrs. Thomas to ask for an apology under those circumstances? Why make up assumtions? Do you have a credible cite that shows she lied? This is the tone deaf leading the tone deaf. ---
**Author:** ![descamisado](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e480ec/32.png) [@descamisado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/descamisado)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2010, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-wife-virginia-thomas-asks-anita-hill-to-apologize-wtf/557798/15 "2010-10-20T17:39:54Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > But - arguendo - Hill knows she fabricated her testimony. If she “thinks she did nothing wrong,” it could not be because she knows she didn’t lie, but because she somehow rationalized that her lying served some higher purpose, some greater good. > > If that’s the case, it’s not unreasonable for Virginia to say, in effect, “Look, we both know you lied, and the event is far enough behind us that any greater good in maintaining the lie is past, so how about an apology?” But if, _assuming arguendo_, Ms. Hill really did lie and Mrs. Thomas truly believes that she did for the dishonorable purpose of derailing Clarence’s nomination as you lay it out, why would Virginia think that someone who is so dishonorable and who would go to such lengths as to lie under oath for the those purposes would do something as honorable as apologize after 20 years of silence and, in the face of no other evidence, maintaining the same position as she did in her sworn testimony? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2010, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-wife-virginia-thomas-asks-anita-hill-to-apologize-wtf/557798/16 "2010-10-20T17:40:23Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > It seems to me she’s only “tone deaf” if you begin the analysis by assuming Ms. Hill was telling the truth. > > Let’s not. Why? Why not assume the opposite, or neither? :dubious: How about you take that tack too, in the interest of your legendary neutrality and honesty? ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2010, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-wife-virginia-thomas-asks-anita-hill-to-apologize-wtf/557798/17 "2010-10-20T17:40:32Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > It seems to me she’s only “tone deaf” if you begin the analysis by assuming Ms. Hill was telling the truth. > > Let’s not. Let assume, instead, that Ms. Hill completely fabricated her accusations, made them up out of whole cloth, in an effort to derail Thomas’ nomination, without caring what effect her lies might have on Thomas personally, or on Thomas’ family. > > And, having failed to prevent Thomas’ confirmation, she has for nearly 20 years refused to acknowledge that her testimony was fabricated. > > Why is it “tone deaf” for Mrs. Thomas to ask for an apology under those circumstances? Actually it isn’t only tone deaf if you assume she is telling the truth. If you assume she was incorrect in her testimony, but incorrect as a result of error - that she firmly believed her testimony, but that she was mistaken (much as people claim about W and the evidence for the invasion of Iraq, for example) then it would be completely tone deaf to request an apology from her when, to the best of her knowledge, all she has done for the last 20 years is tell what she sees as the truth about a man she truly believes did great wrong to her. ---
**Author:** ![SmartAleq](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smartaleq/32/163_2.png) [@SmartAleq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmartAleq)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2010, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-wife-virginia-thomas-asks-anita-hill-to-apologize-wtf/557798/18 "2010-10-20T17:42:15Z")
According to the [WaPo](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/10/19/AR2010101907062.html?hpid=topnews): > [@](#): > > I certainly thought the call was inappropriate," Hill, who worked for Clarence Thomas at the Department of Education and the U.S. Equal Employment Opportunity Commissions, said in a statement released by Brandeis, where she is a professor. > > “I have no intention of apologizing because I testified truthfully about my experience and I stand by that testimony,” she added. > > Hill told reporters that she held onto the voice mail message for nearly a week as she weighed whether it was legitimate. Eventually, she turned it over to campus police with a request that it be sent to the Federal Bureau of Investigation. The FBI’s Boston field office declined comment. And a possible motive for Thomas’ action can be found in statements by a woman named Lillian McEwan, who is apparently writing her memoir. From the article: > [@](#): > > But Lillian McEwen, a former Senate Judiciary Committee lawyer who said she dated Clarence Thomas from 1979 through the mid-1980s, told The Washington Post in an interview that Hill’s long-ago description of Thomas’s behavior resonated with her. > > “The Clarence I know was certainly capable not only of doing the things that Anita Hill said he did, but it would be totally consistent with the way he lived his personal life then,” said McEwen, who is writing her own memoir but has never before publicly discussed her relationship with Clarence Thomas. > > McEwen also told the Post she was not surprised that Virginia Thomas would leave Hill a message, even after all these years. > > “In his autobiography, Clarence described himself as a person incapable of doing what Anita Hill said he did,” McEwen said. “He is married to a woman who is loyal to him and religious in a way he would like to be. This combination of religiosity and loyalty and belief that he is really the kind of person who he describes in his book would just about compel her to do something like that.” My guess is that Ms Thomas is one of those people who allows things to eat away at her and is incapable of letting anything go. Maybe she needs to grow the hell up. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2010, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-wife-virginia-thomas-asks-anita-hill-to-apologize-wtf/557798/19 "2010-10-20T17:43:32Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > Okay. Got it. In this case, you are also tone deaf. > > Yes, it would still be unreasonable in the situation you describe. > > Carry on. I’m sorry, but you - not I - were the one that sought to paint her conduct as so unreasonable that “…regardless of politics **or one’s personal beliefs about that past event** …” we should agree that Virginia Thomas was tone deaf. Having been called on it, you had a choice. You could gracefully acknowledge that in fact whatever “tone deafness” exists here is predicated entirely on the truth of what happened at EEOC between Thomas and Hill. Or you could continue to pretend you didn’t try to slip in a paean to the Thomas-is-evil meme by dodging the issue and calling me tone deaf. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2010, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-wife-virginia-thomas-asks-anita-hill-to-apologize-wtf/557798/20 "2010-10-20T17:47:13Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I’m sorry, but you - not I - were the one that sought to paint her conduct as so unreasonable that “…regardless of politics **or one’s personal beliefs about that past event** …” we should agree that Virginia Thomas was tone deaf. > > Having been called on it, you had a choice. You could gracefully acknowledge that in fact whatever “tone deafness” exists here is predicated entirely on the truth of what happened at EEOC between Thomas and Hill. > > Or you could continue to pretend you didn’t try to slip in a paean to the Thomas-is-evil meme by dodging the issue and calling me tone deaf. Not at all. If Person A obviously holds a set of strong beliefs and Person B asks Person A to acknowledge a wholly different point of view, and does so saying “no offense!” then, regardless of what actually happened, that is tone deaf. QED. And you are tone deaf for not recognizing that. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-wife-virginia-thomas-asks-anita-hill-to-apologize-wtf/557798.md?page=2)