# SCOTUS Wife Virginia Thomas asks Anita Hill to apologize - WTF? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 20, 2010, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-wife-virginia-thomas-asks-anita-hill-to-apologize-wtf/557798 "2010-10-20T16:56:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2010, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-wife-virginia-thomas-asks-anita-hill-to-apologize-wtf/557798/201 "2010-10-21T00:09:04Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > What you’re comparing here is a case in which a person (Mitchell of rape, etc.) was convicted of a crime, and a person (Hill, of perjury) who was never even arrested, let alone indicted or convicted. Yes. So let’s change it, then. Smart escapes from her captor, and by the time he’s caught, there is no evidence with which to convict him. She knows he did it, but there’s no conviction to point to. Now? ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2010, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-wife-virginia-thomas-asks-anita-hill-to-apologize-wtf/557798/202 "2010-10-21T00:11:47Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > If she did it to get closure, it might be useless but at least understandable. A more appropriate thought experiment would be if her husband called up Mitchell and asked the same thing. Now that would be tone deaf. Why did you make me read that? DNFTT. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2010, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-wife-virginia-thomas-asks-anita-hill-to-apologize-wtf/557798/203 "2010-10-21T00:21:56Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Smart escapes from her captor, and by the time he’s caught, there is no evidence with which to convict him. She knows he did it, but there’s no conviction to point to. Elizabeth Smart is the victim of the crime. Justice Thomas’ wife is not. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2010, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-wife-virginia-thomas-asks-anita-hill-to-apologize-wtf/557798/204 "2010-10-21T00:30:37Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Yes. So let’s change it, then. > > Smart escapes from her captor, and by the time he’s caught, there is no evidence with which to convict him. She knows he did it, but there’s no conviction to point to. > > Now? You’ll have have to retool the analogy for quite a while to make it fit. I hope you have your own lathe. But in any case, doesn’t it just come down to how one defines “tone deaf”? Skip the analogies, let’s start a round of battling dictionary cites! Woohoo! ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2010, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-wife-virginia-thomas-asks-anita-hill-to-apologize-wtf/557798/205 "2010-10-21T00:33:00Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Yes. So let’s change it, then. > > Smart escapes from her captor, and by the time he’s caught, there is no evidence with which to convict him. She knows he did it, but there’s no conviction to point to. > > Now? Conviction or not. Elizabeth Smart is in a position to know for a fact what the truth is. Virginia Thomas is not. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2010, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-wife-virginia-thomas-asks-anita-hill-to-apologize-wtf/557798/206 "2010-10-21T00:34:58Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > **Elvish** , post #149, referring to testimony later referenced by **Hello Again** , neither of which you appear to have addressed. I can’t read one of those posts. But from the other, it appears someone claimed that Angela Wright said she was sexually harrassed by Thomas. But from the transcript of Wright’s testimony: > [@Angela Wright](#): > > Oh, there is no doubt in my mind, it hadn’t been > very long, but I can’t go back and tell you just what day or > how many weeks. You know, Clarence Thomas I think felt very > comfortable around me, and I want you to understand that I am > not sitting here saying to you that I was sexually harassed > by Clarence Thomas. I am a very strong-willed person and at > no point did I feel intimidated by him. Some other woman > might have, but these were not situations that I ran home and > ruminated on and wrote down in my diary. > Q When he made these comments, how did you feel about > it? > A I felt that he was annoying and obnoxious pretty > much, but, you know — > Q Did you take them as a joke, or did you take them > as something that maybe, you know, you had been harassed? > You said you had not been harassed. I mean did you take them > as a — > A Not sexually harassment, no. > Q I mean did – > A Harassment to me dictates some — I mean indicates > some.feeling that there is some threat. No, I never did feel > threatened or intimidated. (pg 482, HEARINGS BEFORE THE COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY UNITED STATES SENATE ONE HUNDRED SECOND CONGRESS FIRST SESSION ON THE NOMINATION OF CLARENCE THOMAS TO BE ASSOCIATE JUSTICE OF THE SUPREME COURT OF THE UNITED STATES, J-102-40) ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2010, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-wife-virginia-thomas-asks-anita-hill-to-apologize-wtf/557798/207 "2010-10-21T00:36:27Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > Elizabeth Smart is the victim of the crime. > > Justice Thomas’ wife is not. > [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Conviction or not. Elizabeth Smart is in a position to know for a fact what the truth is. Virginia Thomas is not. OK. So let’s say Smart’s mother makes the call. Tone deaf? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2010, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-wife-virginia-thomas-asks-anita-hill-to-apologize-wtf/557798/208 "2010-10-21T00:38:35Z")
That testimony doesn’t really help you as much as you think it does. The behavior described is very similar to what Hill described. Whether it was “harassment” just comes down to the subjective feelings of those two individuals, not really the behavior itself. It corroborates Hill, it doesn’t refute her. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2010, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-wife-virginia-thomas-asks-anita-hill-to-apologize-wtf/557798/209 "2010-10-21T00:39:55Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > OK. > > So let’s say Smart’s mother makes the call. > > Tone deaf? Smart’s mother also knows for a fact what the truth is . Mrs. Thomas still does not. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2010, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-wife-virginia-thomas-asks-anita-hill-to-apologize-wtf/557798/210 "2010-10-21T00:43:14Z")
I will say this – if anyone from the Smart family were to think they had any possibility of getting an apology from this person they know to be a stone sociopath and an unapologetic predator, then they would indeed be tone deaf. ---
**Author:** ![River\_Hippie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/river_hippie/32/26_2.png) [@River\_Hippie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/River_Hippie)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2010, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-wife-virginia-thomas-asks-anita-hill-to-apologize-wtf/557798/211 "2010-10-21T00:45:29Z")
Thomas’s Teapublican cell leader wife brings this back in a blatant bid to throw some chum to the “angry” teabaggers. Yeah, get 'em riled for the election. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2010, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-wife-virginia-thomas-asks-anita-hill-to-apologize-wtf/557798/212 "2010-10-21T00:46:39Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Smart’s mother also knows for a fact what the truth is . Actually, she doesn’t. Elizabeth Smart’s mother has no more idea than does Virginia Thomas as to the facts. Tone-deaf is too mild. **Bricker** , I’m finding myself increasingly bewildered as to your point. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2010, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-wife-virginia-thomas-asks-anita-hill-to-apologize-wtf/557798/213 "2010-10-21T00:47:09Z")
if ((caller == Elizabeth’s mom) && (conviction)) tone\_deaf = false; if ((caller == Elizabeth’s mom) && (!conviction)) tone\_deaf = true; if (caller == Elizabeth) tone\_deaf = false; if (caller == Virginia) tone\_deaf = true; I’m not sure this situation lends itself to boolean analysis. Bayesian, maybe. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2010, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-wife-virginia-thomas-asks-anita-hill-to-apologize-wtf/557798/214 "2010-10-21T00:48:59Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > Actually, she doesn’t. Elizabeth Smart’s mother has no more idea than does Virginia Thomas as to the facts. This is simply not true. There is a great deal of corroborating physical evidence in the Smart case. We all know for a fact that the child was kidnapped, held prisoner and raped. Not a single one of those things is in question, and none of it relies on Elizabeth’s mere word. What conceivable alternative theory of the Smart case could make her a liar who made it all up? ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2010, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-wife-virginia-thomas-asks-anita-hill-to-apologize-wtf/557798/215 "2010-10-21T00:59:38Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > This is simply not true. There is a great deal of corroborating physical evidence in the Smart case. We all know for a fact that the child was kidnapped, held prisoner and raped. Not a single one of those things is in question, and none of it relies on Elizabeth’s mere word. What conceivable alternative theory of the Smart case could make her a liar who made it all up? Elizabeth Smart’s mother is not the victim anymore than Justice Thomas’ wife is. I have no interest in turning yet another thread into The **Diogenes** Show, and will not assist in such. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2010, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-wife-virginia-thomas-asks-anita-hill-to-apologize-wtf/557798/216 "2010-10-21T01:01:11Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > Small nitpick here. Was he convicted already or is his trial pending? His accomplice was convicted. Mitchell himself was able to avoid prosecution for a long time by faking psychitric symptoms, but has now been declared competent to stand trial, and his trial is still pending. In any case, we do have a conviction of his accomplice on the same facts. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2010, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-wife-virginia-thomas-asks-anita-hill-to-apologize-wtf/557798/217 "2010-10-21T01:03:28Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > Elizabeth Smart’s mother is not the victim anymore than Justice Thomas’ wife is. Irrelevant. None of the allegations are rationally disputable and, in point of fact, have been proven in a court of law. These two cases are not analogous. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2010, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-wife-virginia-thomas-asks-anita-hill-to-apologize-wtf/557798/218 "2010-10-21T01:05:53Z")
Incidentally, Elizabeth Smart’s mother was TOO a victim. She had her child kidnapped, held prisoner and raped for six months. Nothing at all happened to Mrs. Thomas except that her husband got accused of something which ultimately did him no harm. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2010, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-wife-virginia-thomas-asks-anita-hill-to-apologize-wtf/557798/219 "2010-10-21T01:10:15Z")
Uh-oh, now you’ve done it. Now we’re in for four pages on the legal definition of “victim”. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2010, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-wife-virginia-thomas-asks-anita-hill-to-apologize-wtf/557798/220 "2010-10-21T01:15:05Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Uh-oh, now you’ve done it. Now we’re in for four pages on the legal definition of “victim”. Not on my part. Except of course, that Richard Ricci, hounded to death, was a victim. Was his wife or mother also a victim? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-wife-virginia-thomas-asks-anita-hill-to-apologize-wtf/557798.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-wife-virginia-thomas-asks-anita-hill-to-apologize-wtf/557798.md?page=12)