# SCOTUS Wife Virginia Thomas asks Anita Hill to apologize - WTF? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 20, 2010, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-wife-virginia-thomas-asks-anita-hill-to-apologize-wtf/557798 "2010-10-20T16:56:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2010, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-wife-virginia-thomas-asks-anita-hill-to-apologize-wtf/557798/261 "2010-10-21T13:58:05Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > So I proceeded on the apparently solid assumption that you had indulged in a bit of unsupported hyperbole, and attacked it. But to you, it’s not hyperbole; you truly do think Galileo was tone deaf to mutter _E pur si muove_. Wow - you just can’t let go of a rhetorical nitpick, can you? Pretty funny. Okay - I’ll play. No. Galileo was protesting based on case he built on scientific fact against a case already-by-then known to be based on religious doctrine in contradiction to the known facts - the “social peccadillo” aspect of his situation was waaaay down the list of things to worry about. In this case, at its essence, it is about a social peccadillo. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2010, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-wife-virginia-thomas-asks-anita-hill-to-apologize-wtf/557798/262 "2010-10-21T14:09:39Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > Wow - you just can’t let go of a rhetorical nitpick, can you? Pretty funny. > > Okay - I’ll play. No. Galileo was protesting based on case he built on scientific fact against a case already-by-then known to be based on religious doctrine in contradiction to the known facts - the “social peccadillo” aspect of his situation was waaaay down the list of things to worry about. > > In this case, at its essence, it is about a social peccadillo. At the point Galileo supposed uttered his famous denial, he was literally mumbling – he had already been found guilty of heresy and sentenced to imprisonment. There was essentially no chance he would persuade anyone by his statement, nor that his statement would change religious doctrine or provide any additional evidence for his case of scientific fact. It was, in short, merely an act of social defiance. Does that, or does that not, precisely fit into your claimed arena of “tone deaf?” ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2010, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-wife-virginia-thomas-asks-anita-hill-to-apologize-wtf/557798/263 "2010-10-21T14:12:35Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > At the point Galileo supposed uttered his famous denial, he was literally mumbling – he had already been found guilty of heresy and sentenced to imprisonment. There was essentially no chance he would persuade anyone by his statement, nor that his statement would change religious doctrine or provide any additional evidence for his case of scientific fact. It was, in short, merely an act of social defiance. > > Does that, or does that not, precisely fit into your claimed arena of “tone deaf?” No - an act of social defiance is not concerned about tone deafness. That would be like Rosa Parks worrying about offending the bus driver while sitting down to take a stand. Completely different levels of interaction. Ms. Thomas said she “meant no offense” - if she was taking a stand of social defiance, she would have rightly said “I mean offense - I want the darn apology.” But BECAUSE she said she thought it was reasonable and meant no offense, SHE is the one who kept this in the realm of social peccadillo - and was tone deaf. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2010, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-wife-virginia-thomas-asks-anita-hill-to-apologize-wtf/557798/264 "2010-10-21T14:13:37Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Now we’re all being subjected to the “pubic hair on the coke can” again in the news. Nice. Hey, hey! That’s the way it was done in those days! Putting a few of your pubes on a coke can was the next evolutionary step from braining a woman with your club and dragging her back to your cave! Don’t hate the player, hate the game! ---
**Author:** ![SmellMyWort](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea5d25/32.png) [@SmellMyWort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmellMyWort)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2010, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-wife-virginia-thomas-asks-anita-hill-to-apologize-wtf/557798/265 "2010-10-21T14:14:38Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > She has no reason to believe that Hill saw the interview, so she didn’t “ask for it” in a meaningful way. I think that’s pretty disingenuous, but whatever. Plus, you’re wrong. Anita Hill did see it, and issued a statment. [Cite](http://www.slate.com/id/2271827/). ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2010, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-wife-virginia-thomas-asks-anita-hill-to-apologize-wtf/557798/266 "2010-10-21T14:19:35Z")
For the record, That Galileo line, as cool as it is, is totally apocryphal. In reality he knuckled under completely. No defiance. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2010, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-wife-virginia-thomas-asks-anita-hill-to-apologize-wtf/557798/267 "2010-10-21T14:20:36Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > For the record, That Galileo line, as cool as it is, is totally apocryphal. In reality he knuckled under completely. No defiance. Understood and thank you for that. Back to the OP. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2010, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-wife-virginia-thomas-asks-anita-hill-to-apologize-wtf/557798/268 "2010-10-21T14:23:01Z")
> [@SmellMyWort](#): > > I think that’s pretty disingenuous, but whatever. Plus, you’re wrong. Anita Hill did see it, and issued a statment. > > [Cite](http://www.slate.com/id/2271827/). Correct me if I’m missing it, but that statement seems to be in response to Justice Thomas’ book, and not the interview. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2010, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-wife-virginia-thomas-asks-anita-hill-to-apologize-wtf/557798/269 "2010-10-21T14:26:24Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > For the record, That Galileo line, as cool as it is, is totally apocryphal. In reality he knuckled under completely. No defiance. I agree there is no contemporary evidence for it, but the claim that it first appeared over a hundred years later is also false. It appeared in a painting done of the trial only ten years later. I would say simply that there’s no contemporary evidence for the claim. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2010, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-wife-virginia-thomas-asks-anita-hill-to-apologize-wtf/557798/270 "2010-10-21T14:31:10Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > No - an act of social defiance is not concerned about tone deafness. That would be like Rosa Parks worrying about offending the bus driver while sitting down to take a stand. Completely different levels of interaction. > > Ms. Thomas said she “meant no offense” - if she was taking a stand of social defiance, she would have rightly said “I mean offense - I want the darn apology.” But BECAUSE she said she thought it was reasonable and meant no offense, SHE is the one who kept this in the realm of social peccadillo - and was tone deaf. WHAT? Now we’re back to considering the extrinsic statement about the statement? She didn’t say, in the phone call, that she meant no offense. She said: > [@](#): > > I just wanted to reach across the airwaves and the years and ask you to consider something. I would love you to consider an apology sometime and some full explanation of why you did what you did with my husband. So give it some thought and certainly pray about this and come to understand why you did what you did. OK, have a good day, ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2010, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-wife-virginia-thomas-asks-anita-hill-to-apologize-wtf/557798/271 "2010-10-21T14:32:29Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > WHAT? > > Now we’re back to considering the extrinsic statement about the statement? > > She didn’t say, in the phone call, that she meant no offense. She said: When asked about the message, she said she meant no offense. What, pray tell, is the nitpicky rhetorical difference? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2010, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-wife-virginia-thomas-asks-anita-hill-to-apologize-wtf/557798/272 "2010-10-21T14:34:16Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > When asked about the message, she said she meant no offense. > > What, pray tell, is the nitpicky rhetorical difference? Because I have already acknowledged that her statements ABOUT the message can fairly be called tone deaf. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2010, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-wife-virginia-thomas-asks-anita-hill-to-apologize-wtf/557798/273 "2010-10-21T14:35:02Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I agree there is no contemporary evidence for it, but the claim that it first appeared over a hundred years later is also false. I made no such claim. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2010, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-wife-virginia-thomas-asks-anita-hill-to-apologize-wtf/557798/274 "2010-10-21T14:35:51Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Because I have already acknowledged that her statements ABOUT the message can fairly be called tone deaf. And what, dare I ask, is the difference between her statements ABOUT vs. the ACTUAL statement? Both come from the same tone-deaf place in her head… **Dio** : please settle down. No one cares. This thread is not about Galileo, nor is it about the precise wording of your post on Galileo. Demonstrate maturity and let it go, okay? ---
**Author:** ![CannyDan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cannydan/32/548_2.png) [@CannyDan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CannyDan)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2010, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-wife-virginia-thomas-asks-anita-hill-to-apologize-wtf/557798/275 "2010-10-21T14:37:22Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Correct me if I’m missing it, but that statement seems to be in response to Justice Thomas’ book, and not the interview. You’re missing it. The link includes a [link](http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/20/us/politics/20thomas.html?_r=2&hp)which states > [@](#): > > Justice Thomas weighed in with his own autobiography in 2007, “My Grandfather’s Son,” referring to Ms. Hill as “my most traitorous adversary” and asserting that liberal advocacy groups stooped to “the age-old blunt instrument of accusing a black man of sexual misconduct” to block his ascent because of his conservative views. > > Ms. Hill said she had a previous but indirect interaction with Ms. Thomas. After Justice Thomas’s book was published, she said, Ms. Thomas told an interviewer that Ms. Hill should apologize. In response, Ms. Hill gave an interview reiterating that she had nothing to apologize for. . ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2010, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-wife-virginia-thomas-asks-anita-hill-to-apologize-wtf/557798/276 "2010-10-21T14:39:18Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > Demonstrate maturity and let it go, okay? This is the Pit. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2010, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-wife-virginia-thomas-asks-anita-hill-to-apologize-wtf/557798/277 "2010-10-21T14:40:19Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > This is the Pit. Seriously. What the hell was _I_ thinking?? ;)😃 I’m kinda new at this - this is the first runaway Pit thread I’ve tried to navigate… ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2010, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-wife-virginia-thomas-asks-anita-hill-to-apologize-wtf/557798/278 "2010-10-21T14:43:54Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > There was no prattling. It seemed clear to me that tone deafness is measured against the objective correctness of your position – we would never call Galileo “tone deaf” for saying _E pur si muove_, I thought. Would you call Galileo tone deaf for drawing the pope into his book as Simplicitico, the foolish person whose arguments get mocked? I probably would. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2010, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-wife-virginia-thomas-asks-anita-hill-to-apologize-wtf/557798/279 "2010-10-21T14:46:38Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > This thread is not about Galileo… This thread isn’t about Elizabeth Smart either, but we had to spend three pages knocking that bullshit around. I can’t wait to see the next analogy. I’m just shocked the fucking Nazis haven’t come into play yet. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2010, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-wife-virginia-thomas-asks-anita-hill-to-apologize-wtf/557798/280 "2010-10-21T14:47:21Z")
> [@CannyDan](#): > > You’re missing it. > > The link includes a [link](http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/20/us/politics/20thomas.html?_r=2&hp)which states . I should probably concede that this looks an awful lot like moving the goalposts. But it isn’t. When the spectre of a previous interview was raised, I pictured a face-to-face confrontation. A refusal to apologize then, a mere three years ago, would certainly support an inference of tone deafness now. This cite makes clear that, although Hill did see the Thomas’ TV interview, and in response offered up her interview, we don’t know how and under what circumstances Ginni saw Hill’s response. The cite makes plain, in other words, what was missing form the first claim: > [@](#): > > Ms. Hill said she had a previous but **indirect** interaction with Ms. Thomas. So my fault for not making clear what I was thinking, but as it turns out, this does not change my mind. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-wife-virginia-thomas-asks-anita-hill-to-apologize-wtf/557798.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-wife-virginia-thomas-asks-anita-hill-to-apologize-wtf/557798.md?page=15)