# SCOTUS Wife Virginia Thomas asks Anita Hill to apologize - WTF? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 20, 2010, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-wife-virginia-thomas-asks-anita-hill-to-apologize-wtf/557798 "2010-10-20T16:56:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2010, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-wife-virginia-thomas-asks-anita-hill-to-apologize-wtf/557798/21 "2010-10-20T17:47:49Z")
> [@villa](#): > > Actually it isn’t only tone deaf if you assume she is telling the truth. If you assume she was incorrect in her testimony, but incorrect as a result of error - that she firmly believed her testimony, but that she was mistaken (much as people claim about W and the evidence for the invasion of Iraq, for example) then it would be completely tone deaf to request an apology from her when, to the best of her knowledge, all she has done for the last 20 years is tell what she sees as the truth about a man she truly believes did great wrong to her. Of course, then it would be tone deaf. Agreed completely. But the OP’s comment was, in essence, “There’s no possible way this is anything other than tone deaf.” I disagree. There _IS_ a possible way; how you feel about this depends entirely upon what you feel Ms. Hill did. If she told the truth, was mistaken, or related in good faith events that she completely misinterpreted, then it’s ludicrous to imagine she’d change her story now. But if she deliberately fabricated her testimony, then it’s not. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2010, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-wife-virginia-thomas-asks-anita-hill-to-apologize-wtf/557798/22 "2010-10-20T17:49:05Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > Not at all. If Person A obviously holds a set of strong beliefs and Person B asks Person A to acknowledge a wholly different point of view, and does so saying “no offense!” then, regardless of what actually happened, that is tone deaf. QED. > > And you are tone deaf for not recognizing that. So.. your point is that even if Ms. Hill did completely fabricate her testimony, it would be tone deaf for Ms. Thomas to now request an apology? ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2010, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-wife-virginia-thomas-asks-anita-hill-to-apologize-wtf/557798/23 "2010-10-20T17:49:34Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > It seems to me she’s only “tone deaf” if you begin the analysis by assuming Ms. Hill was telling the truth. > > Let’s not. Let assume, instead, that Ms. Hill completely fabricated her accusations, made them up out of whole cloth, in an effort to derail Thomas’ nomination, without caring what effect her lies might have on Thomas personally, or on Thomas’ family. > > And, having failed to prevent Thomas’ confirmation, she has for nearly 20 years refused to acknowledge that her testimony was fabricated. > > Why is it “tone deaf” for Mrs. Thomas to ask for an apology under those circumstances? Because, under those circumstances, it’s not anything resembling an “olive branch”. It’s more of a “fess up to your crime of lying to Congress and trying to ruin my husbands career 20 years ago.” If she described the communication as trying to clear her husbands good name, not tone deaf. Olive branch, I think not. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2010, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-wife-virginia-thomas-asks-anita-hill-to-apologize-wtf/557798/24 "2010-10-20T17:50:24Z")
I just have to wonder, why _now_? There doesn’t seem to be anything significant about the date. Unless, you know, this is more political shit-stirring before the midterms. Then it makes loads of sense. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2010, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-wife-virginia-thomas-asks-anita-hill-to-apologize-wtf/557798/25 "2010-10-20T17:51:03Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > So.. your point is that even if Ms. Hill did completely fabricate her testimony, it would be tone deaf for Ms. Thomas to now request an apology? Yes, that is \*exactly \*what I am saying. Regardless of what actually happened, if Ms. Thomas had no reason to believe that Ms. Hill’s position had changed at all, then asking for an apology the way she did, even if coming from a position of deeply-felt correctness, is tone deaf. ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2010, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-wife-virginia-thomas-asks-anita-hill-to-apologize-wtf/557798/26 "2010-10-20T17:51:29Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Of course, then it would be tone deaf. Agreed completely. > > But the OP’s comment was, in essence, “There’s no possible way this is anything other than tone deaf.” I disagree. There _IS_ a possible way; how you feel about this depends entirely upon what you feel Ms. Hill did. If she told the truth, was mistaken, or related in good faith events that she completely misinterpreted, then it’s ludicrous to imagine she’d change her story now. > > But if she deliberately fabricated her testimony, then it’s not. I agree. But while there _IS_ a possible way, and the OP was erroneous for claiming there wasn’t, you are also erroneous for saying that: > [@](#): > > whatever “tone deafness” exists here \*\*\*is predicated entirely on the truth of what happened \*\*\*at EEOC between Thomas and Hill." (emphasis added) You are being making precisely the same error you are pointing out in the OP. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2010, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-wife-virginia-thomas-asks-anita-hill-to-apologize-wtf/557798/27 "2010-10-20T17:52:44Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > Because, under those circumstances, it’s not anything resembling an “olive branch”. It’s more of a “fess up to your crime of lying to Congress and trying to ruin my husbands career 20 years ago.” > > If she described the communication as trying to clear her husbands good name, not tone deaf. Olive branch, I think not. Why not? “Extend an olive branch,” means generally an offer of peace or good will. If in fact Ms. Hill completely fabricated her testimony, than why is it unreasonable to ask that a predicate for peace and good will be her admission of that fact? ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2010, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-wife-virginia-thomas-asks-anita-hill-to-apologize-wtf/557798/28 "2010-10-20T17:53:28Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > Yes, that is \*exactly \*what I am saying. Regardless of what actually happened, if Ms. Thomas had no reason to believe that Ms. Hill’s position had changed at all, then asking for an apology the way she did, even if coming from a position of deeply-felt correctness, is tone deaf. I wouldn’t say that. If Anita Hill made everything up from whole cloth (which I don’t believe for one second she did) and has maintained this position for 20 years, then asking her to recant and apologize to a man whose career she would, in essence, have attempted to destroy through falsehoods isn’t tone deaf. However, given that I don’t think Ms. Thomas even believes that was the case, it was incredibly tone deaf. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2010, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-wife-virginia-thomas-asks-anita-hill-to-apologize-wtf/557798/29 "2010-10-20T17:53:44Z")
> [@villa](#): > > I agree. But while there _IS_ a possible way, and the OP was erroneous for claiming there wasn’t, you are also erroneous for saying that: > > (emphasis added) > > You are being making precisely the same error you are pointing out in the OP. Right you are. I will amend my statement to say, “…is predicated in part by what happened at the EEOC…” ---
**Author:** ![SmartAleq](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smartaleq/32/163_2.png) [@SmartAleq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmartAleq)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2010, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-wife-virginia-thomas-asks-anita-hill-to-apologize-wtf/557798/30 "2010-10-20T17:56:07Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > So.. your point is that even if Ms. Hill did completely fabricate her testimony, it would be tone deaf for Ms. Thomas to now request an apology? Yes, because the EVIDENCE has not changed. Ms Thomas has no first hand knowledge of her husband’s behavior before he married her, she’s merely operating off of her own personal opinion that her hubby is teh awesomez and would never, ever have done anything so wrong and therefore Ms Hill MUST be lying, in spite of much greater evidence (such as testifying under oath on multiple occasions where perjury penalties would have been a substantial disincentive to mendaciousness) that she is not. Ms Thomas is also as stupid as a fried popsicle if she thinks that a moronic voice mail message would be sufficiently compelling to cause Ms Hill to recant her testimony under oath. Ms Thomas is, quite frankly, a bit of a dumbass IMO. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2010, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-wife-virginia-thomas-asks-anita-hill-to-apologize-wtf/557798/31 "2010-10-20T17:58:04Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Why is it “tone deaf” for Mrs. Thomas to ask for an apology under those circumstances? The tone deaf is for her to characterize it as an olive branch. Demanding an apology, justified or not, is not peacemaking. ---
**Author:** ![MsWhatsit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb8c5e/32.png) [@MsWhatsit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsWhatsit)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2010, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-wife-virginia-thomas-asks-anita-hill-to-apologize-wtf/557798/32 "2010-10-20T17:58:43Z")
My guess is drunk dialing. I can’t come up with any other explanation that makes sense. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2010, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-wife-virginia-thomas-asks-anita-hill-to-apologize-wtf/557798/33 "2010-10-20T18:00:03Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > Yes, that is \*exactly \*what I am saying. Regardless of what actually happened, if Ms. Thomas had no reason to believe that Ms. Hill’s position had changed at all, then asking for an apology the way she did, even if coming from a position of deeply-felt correctness, is tone deaf. Wow. Well, I guess we’ll agree to disagree. I can’t imagine too many people would take that position. I thin kthe vast majority of observers, if it were proven that Ms. Hill’s testimony were wholly fabricated, would describe the request for an apology as “tone deaf.” Just to further clarify your thinking, suppose a tape came to light, made between, say, Florynce Kennedy and Anita Hill over the July 4th holiday in 1991. In the tape, we hear Ms. Kennedy urging Ms. Hill to say that Thomas harassed her. Hill objects, saying that nothing like that ever happened, and Kennedy persists, telling her that it’s for the good of the country to make sure a man like Thomas doesn’t replace Thurgood Marshall and all the good work he’s done. The tape would go on to reveal the two of them constructing the story, adding and changing details based on what they thought was believable. Let’s say that this tape exists and is made public. Would that change your calculation that Thomas’ call was tone deaf? ---
**Author:** ![zamboniracer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e9a140/32.png) [@zamboniracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zamboniracer)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2010, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-wife-virginia-thomas-asks-anita-hill-to-apologize-wtf/557798/34 "2010-10-20T18:00:06Z")
As I see it Mrs. Thomas is saying, “Enough time has passed so that you, Ms. Hill, should come forward, do the right thing and apologize to my husband and myself.” IMHO, that is a pretty third class thing to do. The classy thing to do would be for the supposedly wronged parties, the Thomases, to forgive Ms. Hill for her alleged transgressions and not to demand an apology now. Live and let live, let bygones be bygones, forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us and all that stuff. ---
**Author:** ![SmartAleq](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smartaleq/32/163_2.png) [@SmartAleq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmartAleq)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2010, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-wife-virginia-thomas-asks-anita-hill-to-apologize-wtf/557798/35 "2010-10-20T18:01:58Z")
> [@MsWhatsit](#): > > My guess is drunk dialing. I can’t come up with any other explanation that makes sense. Refer back to my post quoting the Washington Post article. Another woman is writing a memoir that includes her period of dating Clarence Thomas, which occurred during the same time period Anita Hill interacted with him, in which she asserts that Hill’s report of his behavior is absolutely consistent with her own experience of Mr Thomas’ habitual conduct. Ms Thomas is obviously not happy with the corroboration of Ms Hill’s assertions and is doing a hamhanded maneuver to force Hill to “confess” that it was all a big old lie. Good luck with that, Ginni, you moran. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2010, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-wife-virginia-thomas-asks-anita-hill-to-apologize-wtf/557798/36 "2010-10-20T18:03:10Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Why is it “tone deaf” for Mrs. Thomas to ask for an apology under those circumstances? Perhaps not tone deaf, but self serving as hell. Virginia is in need of publicity for [her tea party style lobbying group.](http://articles.latimes.com/2010/mar/14/nation/la-na-thomas14-2010mar14) This gets her name out there again, in a Glenn Beck, ‘sell us your gold’ kind of way. Since the circus surrounding his wife reflects badly on the court as a whole, judge Thomas really should school Ginny in appropriate behavior, or resign from the court. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2010, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-wife-virginia-thomas-asks-anita-hill-to-apologize-wtf/557798/37 "2010-10-20T18:03:21Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > The tone deaf is for her to characterize it as an olive branch. Demanding an apology, justified or not, is not peacemaking. Why not? “Extend an olive branch,” means generally an offer of peace or good will. If in fact Ms. Hill completely fabricated her testimony, than why is it unreasonable to ask that a predicate for peace and good will be her admission of that fact? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2010, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-wife-virginia-thomas-asks-anita-hill-to-apologize-wtf/557798/38 "2010-10-20T18:03:42Z")
I’d say it’s tone deaf just because it seems to have come out of the blue after 20 years. She called Hill’s office at 7:30AM on Saturday, when it’s unlikely anyone would be there. She left a message. This is not something you leave a message about. Now we’re all being subjected to the “pubic hair on the coke can” again in the news. Nice. ---
**Author:** ![MsWhatsit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb8c5e/32.png) [@MsWhatsit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsWhatsit)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2010, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-wife-virginia-thomas-asks-anita-hill-to-apologize-wtf/557798/39 "2010-10-20T18:04:46Z")
> [@SmartAleq](#): > > Refer back to my post quoting the Washington Post article. Another woman is writing a memoir that includes her period of dating Clarence Thomas, which occurred during the same time period Anita Hill interacted with him, in which she asserts that Hill’s report of his behavior is absolutely consistent with her own experience of Mr Thomas’ habitual conduct. Ms Thomas is obviously not happy with the corroboration of Ms Hill’s assertions and is doing a hamhanded maneuver to force Hill to “confess” that it was all a big old lie. Good luck with that, Ginni, you moran. Ha. Yes, I missed that bit. Yeaahhhh, good luck with that. As for **Bricker** ’s increasingly contrived scenarios, I will just say that if Jesus Christ came down from on high and personally affirmed that Anita Hill was a big lying liar from Liarville, then sure, I suppose that would change my opinion about things. But since I am operating in reality instead of the land of bizarre hypotheticals, my opinion is not in fact changed. I think Mrs. Thomas is acting like a crazy person who is obsessed with something that happened two decades ago, and needs to let it drop. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2010, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-wife-virginia-thomas-asks-anita-hill-to-apologize-wtf/557798/40 "2010-10-20T18:04:48Z")
> [@Squink](#): > > Perhaps not tone deaf, but self serving as hell. Virginia is in need of publicity for [her tea party style lobbying group.](http://articles.latimes.com/2010/mar/14/nation/la-na-thomas14-2010mar14) > This gets her name out there again, in a Glenn Beck, ‘sell us your gold’ kind of way. > Since the circus surrounding his wife reflects badly on the court as a whole, judge Thomas really should school Ginny in appropriate behavior, or resign from the court. Well, if the OP had said, “Regardless of politics or one’s personal beliefs about that past event, how self-serving can an individual be?” I don’t think I’d have any complaint about it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-wife-virginia-thomas-asks-anita-hill-to-apologize-wtf/557798.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotus-wife-virginia-thomas-asks-anita-hill-to-apologize-wtf/557798.md?page=3)