# SCOTUS's decision on The Health Care Law 6/28/12 **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 27, 2012, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotuss-decision-on-the-health-care-law-6-28-12/626499 "2012-06-27T19:56:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Dallas\_Jones](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dallas_jones/32/3277_2.png) [@Dallas\_Jones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dallas_Jones)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2012, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotuss-decision-on-the-health-care-law-6-28-12/626499/21 "2012-06-28T05:11:16Z")
6-3 that the mandate is unconstitutional. Roberts, Thomas, Alito, Kennedy, Scalia being joined by…Kagan. No, I am not kidding. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2012, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotuss-decision-on-the-health-care-law-6-28-12/626499/22 "2012-06-28T05:43:09Z")
> [@yorick73](#): > > Who recused? Kennedy. He’s getting real tired of making all the decisions. ---
**Author:** ![Cyberhwk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7993a0/32.png) [@Cyberhwk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cyberhwk)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2012, 6:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotuss-decision-on-the-health-care-law-6-28-12/626499/23 "2012-06-28T06:42:31Z")
> [@diggerwam](#): > > I think calling the mandate unconstitutional really kinda helps Obama. I think there a lot of single issue voters that will stay home in November if the mandate is killed. They’ll find another one. ---
**Author:** ![phxjcc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8491ac/32.png) [@phxjcc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/phxjcc)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2012, 9:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotuss-decision-on-the-health-care-law-6-28-12/626499/24 "2012-06-28T09:54:44Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Immediately – that is, as soon as the decision is made public. Unconstitutional statutes are void _ab initio_, from their beginning. Unintentional consequences are therefore…the federal government owes the insurers all monies paid by the insurers for services rendered to those newly covered by the statute, but should not have been paid because said statute was unconstitutional _ab initio_. ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2012, 9:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotuss-decision-on-the-health-care-law-6-28-12/626499/25 "2012-06-28T09:56:13Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > First of all, I’ll point out that Justice Bricker would hold the mandate constitutional under the authority of _Wickard_. Justice Bricker would write a separate concurrence (or dissent) laying out how I personally feel that Wickard was itself a poorly-reached decision, but that overturning it is impractical because of the caselaw and reliance built upon the Wickard foundation. Could deciding the mandate is unconstitutional possibly take out Wickard and other decisions such as Raich? I think the mandate is constitutional and I actually don’t mind it (especially since it seems to be a paper tiger when you actually read the language) and if I were a justice I’d be afraid of taking a chainsaw to 70 years of caselaw on something that appears to be constitutional based on previous decisions. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2012, 11:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotuss-decision-on-the-health-care-law-6-28-12/626499/26 "2012-06-28T11:27:20Z")
It will be upheld, 6-3 with Scalia, Alito, and Thomas dissenting. Scalia gives hour long dissent speech, concludes by screaming “I just can’t take it anymore” and pulls out a gun and tries to shoot himself, missing far to the right. ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2012, 11:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotuss-decision-on-the-health-care-law-6-28-12/626499/27 "2012-06-28T11:32:29Z")
If it is overturned, it will be because the government has failed to articulate any limiting principle for the commerce clause. ’ Nonetheless, l’ll be a pessimist and say upheld, 5-4: Kagan, Sotomayor, Ginsberg, Breyer and Roberts. Roberts’ opinion will provide the limiting principle the government’s case failed to; essentially a “here and no further” passage. > [@Dallas\_Jones](#): > > 6-3 that the mandate is unconstitutional. > > Roberts, Thomas, Alito, Kennedy, Scalia being joined by…Kagan. If they get to 6 that way, I agree she’d be it. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2012, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotuss-decision-on-the-health-care-law-6-28-12/626499/28 "2012-06-28T12:53:02Z")
I’ll say the Court rules (5-4) that the health insurance mandate is unconstitutional but severable and the rest of the law stays. It doesn’t seem consistent with the way the Supreme Court and Congress have handled commerce for a couple of generations, but this is the Roberts Court. They don’t sweat the small stuff. ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2012, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotuss-decision-on-the-health-care-law-6-28-12/626499/29 "2012-06-28T13:13:06Z")
Heh, Nothing to add except I find it slightly amusing that I’m glued to the TV right now with the decision less than an hour away. CNN even has a count down clock! I feel like I’m watching the Super Bowl of politics. The only thing missing is hot wings and a six pack of beer. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2012, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotuss-decision-on-the-health-care-law-6-28-12/626499/30 "2012-06-28T13:16:58Z")
> [@Shakes](#): > > The only thing missing is hot wings and a six pack of beer. Well, that’s easily remedied. Completely medicinal, of course, and paid for by your insurance company! ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2012, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotuss-decision-on-the-health-care-law-6-28-12/626499/31 "2012-06-28T13:32:19Z")
> [@phxjcc](#): > > Unintentional consequences are therefore…the federal government owes the insurers all monies paid by the insurers for services rendered to those newly covered by the statute, but should not have been paid because said statute was unconstitutional _ab initio_. Can you expand on this theory, please? I’d like some specifics about under what precise circumstance benefits were paid and under what theory of liability the government is responsible. ---
**Author:** ![jackdavinci](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackdavinci/32/3259_2.png) [@jackdavinci](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jackdavinci)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2012, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotuss-decision-on-the-health-care-law-6-28-12/626499/32 "2012-06-28T13:33:33Z")
> [@Shakes](#): > > Heh, Nothing to add except I find it slightly amusing that I’m glued to the TV right now with the decision less than an hour away. CNN even has a count down clock! > > I feel like I’m watching the Super Bowl of politics. The only thing missing is hot wings and a six pack of beer. Agreed! I’m “watching” the Liveblog ([http://www.coveritlive.com/index2.php/option=com\_altcaster/task=viewaltcast/template=/altcast\_code=9101ad5fcd/ipod=y](http://www.coveritlive.com/index2.php/option=com_altcaster/task=viewaltcast/template=/altcast_code=9101ad5fcd/ipod=y)). ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2012, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotuss-decision-on-the-health-care-law-6-28-12/626499/33 "2012-06-28T13:54:26Z")
OK, now they’re saying 10:17 AM EDT. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2012, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotuss-decision-on-the-health-care-law-6-28-12/626499/34 "2012-06-28T13:59:53Z")
The blog just stated that Obama will likely be watching the news to get the breakdown of the ruling. One would think he’d just call SCOTUS and ask what happened. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2012, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotuss-decision-on-the-health-care-law-6-28-12/626499/35 "2012-06-28T14:01:43Z")
I’m going to go with 7-2 the mandate is unconstitutional, Roberts, Scalia, Thomas, Alito, Kennedy, Kagan and Breyer. However, only 5-4 that it is not severable and therefore the whole law is tossed out. I also predict that on the severability issue we will see the same thing as _Bush v. Gore_ in that the Majority opinion and the dissent on this secondary issue will BOTH be partisan-driven. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2012, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotuss-decision-on-the-health-care-law-6-28-12/626499/36 "2012-06-28T14:02:10Z")
They are going to issue a few other rulings first. That’s why the delay to 10:17 edt ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2012, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotuss-decision-on-the-health-care-law-6-28-12/626499/37 "2012-06-28T14:08:12Z")
Individual mandate struck down? Per Robin. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2012, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotuss-decision-on-the-health-care-law-6-28-12/626499/38 "2012-06-28T14:08:30Z")
Breaking: Mandate found unconstitutional. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2012, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotuss-decision-on-the-health-care-law-6-28-12/626499/39 "2012-06-28T14:09:21Z")
And _Wickard_ still stands. Bricker is happy. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2012, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotuss-decision-on-the-health-care-law-6-28-12/626499/40 "2012-06-28T14:09:23Z")
Scotusblog says it survives as a tax? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotuss-decision-on-the-health-care-law-6-28-12/626499.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotuss-decision-on-the-health-care-law-6-28-12/626499.md?page=3)