# Screamers Mafia **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [September 21, 2009, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938 "2009-09-21T13:16:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 104
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2009, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938/2061 "2009-10-26T17:19:32Z")
I think you’re making it too complicated. It’s not a question of the implications if he is Town, or if he is Scum. It’s a question of is he credible, based on the details of his claim and **Alka** ’s. ---
**Author:** ![GuiriEnEspana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bc79bd/32.png) [@GuiriEnEspana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuiriEnEspana)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2009, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938/2062 "2009-10-26T17:22:43Z")
I say to follow our first instinct, test **Alka** ’s theory and lynch him tonight and take his findings for what they’re worth - lucky guesses. The only thing that would change my mind right now is if **Alka** were to say that he interpreted “Head Screamer” to be scum but his role PM did not explicitly state alignment. ---
**Author:** ![GuiriEnEspana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bc79bd/32.png) [@GuiriEnEspana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuiriEnEspana)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2009, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938/2063 "2009-10-26T17:24:03Z")
NETA for clarity: …test **Alka** ’s theory and lynch **CIAS** tonight and take his findings for what they’re worth - lucky guesses. ---
**Author:** ![Scuba\_Ben](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/278dde/32.png) [@Scuba\_Ben](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scuba_Ben)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2009, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938/2064 "2009-10-26T17:32:40Z")
**Guiri** raises an interesting point about **Alka** ’s collecting the shiny objects. If I remember correctly – and I definitely need this cross-checked – Alka said that he knew of four roles that had berynium (sp???). I don’t recall him saying he knew names. So he juuuust happened to collect from three people three nights running. Did all three of those people say ahead of time that they had berynium? ---
**Author:** ![Drain\_Bead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e47774/32.png) [@Drain\_Bead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drain_Bead)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2009, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938/2065 "2009-10-26T17:33:17Z")
Okay, I’ve scoured this thread because I thought there was a post where **Guiri** basically admitted in not so many words to being VT, but I couldn’t find it. I was thinking that with both **Cat** and **Tom** getting a bit of heat, that **Cat** may have tried to postpone the lynch of her scum teammate by throwing him on the list of vanillas to “confirm” her investigations, and then picking someone who was likely to be VT as the other confirmation. But I can’t find the post I was thinking of with **Guiri** , so I may very well be misremembering or misinterpreting something else. And then it occurred to me that if **Cat** were really trying some sort of scum gambit, there’s no reason why he shouldn’t have said he investigated _me_ on Night One. I would have been a good Cop target Night One, for sure. If he’s scum, he already knows I’m either town or 3rd party. If I’m town, I could confirm him, and if I’m 3rd party, what are the chances I’d admit it if he says I’m VT? So the safest best would have been to claim he investigated me if he’s scum. About the only thing I wonder about is why, if he is a full cop, did he NOT investigate me after the first night? Was it just that he didn’t think I was the Head Screamer? Did he not know he would get full cop results until after the first Night? **Alka** , did your role specifically say that the berynium is in the hands of 3 Town and 1 Scum? Or did it say something else that isn’t as clear? If it said 3 Town and 1 Scum, I think we have to go ahead and lynch **Cat**. If it said 3 Town and 1 Screamer, or something equally ambiguous, I think we should seriously discuss lynching someone else. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2009, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938/2066 "2009-10-26T17:46:34Z")
> [@Scuba\_Ben](#): > > **Guiri** raises an interesting point about **Alka** ’s collecting the shiny objects. > > … > > So he juuuust happened to collect from three people three nights running. Did all three of those people say ahead of time that they had berynium? Two of them did, so he only needed one lucky guess. And Cat had posted a few times about berynium, so it wasn’t a completely random guess either. ---
**Author:** ![Scuba\_Ben](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/278dde/32.png) [@Scuba\_Ben](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scuba_Ben)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2009, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938/2067 "2009-10-26T17:46:36Z")
I think I need an updated playbook of Alive and Claimed, Alive but Unclaimed (of which I am one), and Dead. prtypls? ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2009, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938/2068 "2009-10-26T17:48:39Z")
> [@Scuba\_Ben](#): > > **Guiri** raises an interesting point about **Alka** ’s collecting the shiny objects. > > If I remember correctly – and I definitely need this cross-checked – Alka said that he knew of four roles that had berynium (sp???). I don’t recall him saying he knew names. > > So he juuuust happened to collect from three people three nights running. Did all three of those people say ahead of time that they had berynium? Yikes, holy skimming Batman. **jpei** and **Boozy** claimed berynium on Day One. That night, **jpei** turned up dead, and **boozy** turned up berynium-less. Gryff claimed General Store Owner on Day Two. **Alka** claimed later on Day Two, saying he knew the Lead/Head Miner, General Store Owner and one other Town had berynium, along with the Head Screamer (scum). He demanded that **Boozy** reveal his role name, which **Boozy** did – it matched what **Alka** had for the third Town in his list. (Megacorp Regional Manager) Later, **gryff** confirmed he did in fact have **berynium** , and **alka** was able to steal it that night, leaving only **jpei** ’s unclaimed of the three Town sources. That left **Cat** ’s as belonging to the Head Screamer – that one was a guess, if possibly an informed one. I don’t remember if **Alka** ’s said. ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2009, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938/2069 "2009-10-26T17:57:23Z")
> [@Drain\_Bead](#): > > Okay, I’ve scoured this thread because I thought there was a post where **Guiri** basically admitted in not so many words to being VT, but I couldn’t find it. I was thinking that with both **Cat** and **Tom** getting a bit of heat, that **Cat** may have tried to postpone the lynch of her scum teammate by throwing him on the list of vanillas to “confirm” her investigations, and then picking someone who was likely to be VT as the other confirmation. But I can’t find the post I was thinking of with **Guiri** , so I may very well be misremembering or misinterpreting something else. I think you are; I did that WoW on **Guiri** through Day Two last Night and don’t remember anything like that. Thinking of **Oredigger** ’s request to be blockvestigated by **Daphne** , maybe? (I think it was **Oredigger** ; I keep getting him and **USCDiver** mixed up.) > [@](#): > > And then it occurred to me that if **Cat** were really trying some sort of scum gambit, there’s no reason why he shouldn’t have said he investigated _me_ on Night One. I would have been a good Cop target Night One, for sure. If he’s scum, he already knows I’m either town or 3rd party. If I’m town, I could confirm him, and if I’m 3rd party, what are the chances I’d admit it if he says I’m VT? So the safest best would have been to claim he investigated me if he’s scum. About the only thing I wonder about is why, if he is a full cop, did he NOT investigate me after the first night? Was it just that he didn’t think I was the Head Screamer? Did he not know he would get full cop results until after the first Night? Too much WIFOM, though maybe **Tom** has something in his WoW indicating what **Cat** thought of you? > [@](#): > > **Alka** , did your role specifically say that the berynium is in the hands of 3 Town and 1 Scum? Or did it say something else that isn’t as clear? > > If it said 3 Town and 1 Scum, I think we have to go ahead and lynch **Cat**. If it said 3 Town and 1 Screamer, or something equally ambiguous, I think we should seriously discuss lynching someone else. Unqualified agreement with the first half of this statement. Not so sure about the second, but let’s see what **Alka** says. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2009, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938/2070 "2009-10-26T17:57:30Z")
> [@Drain\_Bead](#): > > And then it occurred to me that if **Cat** were really trying some sort of scum gambit, there’s no reason why he shouldn’t have said he investigated _me_ on Night One. I would have been a good Cop target Night One, for sure. If he’s scum, he already knows I’m either town or 3rd party… why, if he is a full cop, did he NOT investigate me after the first night? I’d been mixed up in the peeker arguments, and had voted him in a pile-on vote; he may have wanted to check me on that. I’m more suspicious of the **Daphne** investigation - here’s someone who’s about to use a confirmable power, surely there must be a better player to investigate; if he was worried that you were going to lie about the result, why not investigate you instead? Also, if he knew I was town from his investigation, would he have posted [this](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=11653837&postcount=1224)? > [@](#): > > I mentioned the passage about JC’s team once in the original WoW. After that I was concentrating more on JC’s change of heart about peekercpa later on. Nice of you to get it wrong. You really look as though you are grasping around for a vote and it looks scummy. He didn’t vote me, and he didn’t say he thought I was scum, but still. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2009, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938/2071 "2009-10-26T18:06:20Z")
BTW, I think Cat’s basic role-claim is plausible; it fits in with the pattern of the other power roles in being crippled in an unusual way, and in interacting with specific other players. Certainly a Miller Investigator is an evil **ish** role. **Gryff** has already mentioned that there was a “good” robot in the movie, so it fits in woth color. And giving **Alka** three legit investigations and one Miller also fits the evil **ish** nature of the game. (I also looked through Cat’s Day 3 posts, and the only reference to Daphne I could find was in his wall of words on Normal, where he mentioned that Daphne looked “more and more townie”; but that’s easily explainable by Drain’s confirmation). ---
**Author:** ![Drain\_Bead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e47774/32.png) [@Drain\_Bead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drain_Bead)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2009, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938/2072 "2009-10-26T18:08:39Z")
I think what I was thinking of was the post in which **Guiri** called himself a “nervous townie.” That’s the best I can come up with for why I had a strong VT read on him. ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2009, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938/2073 "2009-10-26T18:20:29Z")
> [@Tom\_Scud](#): > > BTW, I think Cat’s basic role-claim is plausible; it fits in with the pattern of the other power roles in being crippled in an unusual way, and in interacting with specific other players. Certainly a Miller Investigator is an evil **ish** role. **Gryff** has already mentioned that there was a “good” robot in the movie, so it fits in woth color. And giving **Alka** three legit investigations and one Miller also fits the evil **ish** nature of the game. > > (I also looked through Cat’s Day 3 posts, and the only reference to Daphne I could find was in his wall of words on Normal, where he mentioned that Daphne looked “more and more townie”; but that’s easily explainable by Drain’s confirmation). The role-claim is plausible as such, but a few things bother me: > [@CatInASuit](#): > > However, it looks like someone killed him on Night 1. That’s right, I believe Jimmy Chitwood was the Scum Leader, as he was a Screamer 5. I don’t believe there are two of us in the game. He is not marked as godfather, because I had a small chance of the finding him. > > If you are wondering why I didn’t claim miller. I look and act like vanilla despite not being vanilla. I believe the same would have gone for JC as well. So, here I am now, after Night 1, effectively vanilla. Irony at its finest. What’s this talk of Godfathers, and looking like vanilla Town? Were you explicitly told that Model 5s are indistinguishable from Town? And “effectively vanilla”? You’re contradicting yourself. > [@](#): > > Here is a list of the people looked at > > Night 1: Tom Scud > Night 2: Daphne Black > Night 3: Guiri En Espana > > None of these are the Scum Leader. I keep checking, you never know, maybe I was wrong about JC, but I don’t think so. > > Any questions? Specifically, you’re contradicting your later assertion that you get more than just “scum leader or not” information – that’s anything but “effectively vanilla” and anything but ironic. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2009, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938/2074 "2009-10-26T18:28:17Z")
[quote=“Tom\_Scud, post:1615, topic:510938”] State of play Alive: Tom Scud tiltawhirl Normal Phase Boozahol Squid, PI USCDiver Allwalker Scuba\_Ben Drain Bead Gryph One and Only Alka Seltzer Oredigger77 GuirienEspana CatInASuit Dead: BillMC - Vanilla Town TexCat - Prostitute (Town Recruiting Mason) jpei - Head Miner (Town Governor) Thing Fish - Town Bodyguard amrussell, Ordinary Wife (Vanilla Town) peekercpa, the Field Medic (Doc-in-Training/Backup Doc) Freudian Slit, Town Jailor Daphne, Bartender (Town Roleblocker/weak role cop) Jimmy Chitwood - Model 5 (Screamer Investigator). Chronos, Screamer Roleblocker, Model 2 Claims: OaOW - ineligible non-vanilla town Drain Bead - Vanilla Gryff - General Store Owner - Alka confirms AlkaSeltzer - Government Tax Collector (limited investigator with interest in berynium) Boozahol Squid, P.I. - Megacorp Regional Manager - Alka confirms CatinaSuit - Head Screamer (has berynium) - claims Town investigator Gueri - Town Vanilla Unclaimed: Tom Scud tiltawhirl Normal Phase USCDiver AllWalker ScubaBen Oredigger77 ??? - Politician Factual claims: **Boozahol** attempted a Night 1 action which did not have the effect he expected **Boozahol** had his berynium stolen; **Alka** claims he took it **Gryff** gave an item to **Boozahol** (confirmed by Boozy) **Thing Fish** had his vote bought on Day 2. **Tom Scud** received a music box from Gryff, which recorded a distress message saying Tom Scud is Town; will send to someone else on Night 4. **Drain Bead** received an unspecified item from Gryff, which has to be used on another player. **Oredigger77** volunteered to be blocked on Night 3, however **Daphne** said she would choose her own block target. **CatinaSuit** claims the following investigation results: Night 1 - **Tom Scud** Vanilla Night 2 - **Daphne Black** Town roleblocker/weak role cop Night 3 - **Gueri** Vanilla. Day 1 Leader: AllWalker -\> jpei (Town Power) Day 2 Leader: Boozahol Squid, P.I. Day 3 Leader: Alka Seltzer Votes spoilered Day 1 Final Vote jpei (1): Freudian Slit peekercpa(3): Gryph, Boozahol Squid, PI, Cold Phoenix Drain Bead (2): USCDriver, CatInASuit Bill MC(8): Jimmy Chitwood, Drain Bead, tiltawhirl, Alka Seltzer, Daphne Black, Allwalker, Texcat, jpei (Leader) Boozahol Squid, PI(3): Bill MC, Thing Fish, Chronos CatInASuit (2): amrussell, Tom Scud Cold Phoenix (2): Oredigger, Guiri Tom Scud(1): Peeker Chronos(1): Normal Phase Day 2 final vote: Gryff(1): Daphne(3): Gryff, Drain Bead, Chronos Freudian Slit(4): AllWalker, Tiltawhirl, Tom Scud, peeker Thing Fish(7): amrussell, Boozy Squid, CiaS, Normal Phase, Scuba Ben, Thing Fish, Guiri Peeker (1): Alka Seltzer Day 3 final vote: Chronos(9): Oredigger, USCDiver, Tiltawhirl, Gryff, DaphneBlack, DB, CatInASuit, OaOW, Boozy Squid Drain Bead(6) : Tom Scud, Normalphase, Alka(leader), Chronos, Scuba\_Ben, GuiriEnEspana No vote: AllWalker ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2009, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938/2075 "2009-10-26T18:38:02Z")
Also, I think I am now down firmly on the side of lynching **Cat**. I don’t wanna get all **Chronos** -like, but the choice of Daphne for a night 2 investigation is just odd, and even if it is a mislynch, we end up with a pretty good situation, with 5 confirmed town and Gryff’s little toys helping to increase our confirmed count. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2009, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938/2076 "2009-10-26T18:43:15Z")
**Is Alka leader yet?** ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2009, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938/2077 "2009-10-26T18:53:32Z")
That said, I can see a perfectly good Town reason for Cat to shade his initial role claim; if his claim IS honest, he’s now the top night-kill target for both scum and serial killers. ---
**Author:** ![Scuba\_Ben](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/278dde/32.png) [@Scuba\_Ben](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scuba_Ben)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2009, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938/2078 "2009-10-26T18:54:49Z")
Thanks very much, **Normal Phase** and **Tom Scud**. It occurs to me that **Alka** has used up the extent of his claimed power and is (pending independent confirmation of his reports) now a plain, awaiting-confirmed Townie. This makes Alka a potentially reliable subject to test more of **Gryff** ’s goodies. Another thought – I reread Tom’s player list, and find that both he and NP are in the unclaimed (and potential Scum) pool. I remember my first game, where I trusted Idle Thoughts’s helpfulness, and he turned out to be a very devious Scum. Also, peeker being the Doc in Training / Back-up Doc implies the existence of a full Doc. And someone is the Politician. And OAOW has an unspecified role. How close are we to having a mass claim? As another thought, how close are we to asking for **Gryff** to post an inventory list? Separate thought, more direct: Has **Boozy** stated what his role as Regional Manager does? Have we determined whether that’s a role inclined towards Town or Scum? It would certainly be evil-ish for a reformed Screamer to be a Town role and a neutral-sounding Regional Manager to be a Scum role. (The answers probably were posted between pages 3 and 28, where I’ll never get to them.) ---
**Author:** ![Trepa\_Mayfield](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@Trepa\_Mayfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trepa_Mayfield)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2009, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938/2079 "2009-10-26T19:00:33Z")
Alka Seltzer (10): Alka, DB, Norm Phase, Scudsy, AllWalker, USCD., Boozy Squid, OaOW, Gryff, CiaS Boozy Squid (2): Guiri, Digger > [@Tom\_Scud](#): > > **Is Alka leader yet?** Yes. Gryff (1): ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2009, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938/2080 "2009-10-26T19:02:04Z")
Ben: Thing Fish was the sorta-Doc to whom Peeker was backup. Also, I should have put a ??? - Vigilante/Serial Killer on my role list. Also also, Alka says he has another power. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938.md?page=103) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938.md?page=105)