# Screamers Mafia **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [September 21, 2009, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938 "2009-09-21T13:16:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 119
**Author:** ![Gryff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/919ad9/32.png) [@Gryff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gryff)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2009, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938/2361 "2009-11-04T15:01:56Z")
> [@GuiriEnEspana](#): > > What about singling out that same player on his own as a scum “itching for his first night kill” in response to his desire for a quick end to Day 1 and a FOS on any player who dared moved their vote after the **Jpei** show? Good Point, though one you are using alot. I had forgotten about that smudge. Unvote Vote: **USCDiver** ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2009, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938/2362 "2009-11-04T15:38:07Z")
I’ve been reluctant to take a strong look at Gueri because (1) a lot of posts to read through and (2) I find his play-style hard to read: a lot of strong accusations followed by quick back-tracks, and a lot of points that look to me to be vastly over-reading the available evidence (see his argument in his Day 1 vote for Cold Phoenix about CP advocating for a Doc counterclaim). But it seems to be a consistent play-style, and one that feels like it has a logic behind it, even though I can’t quite make out what it is most of the time. But given that this is (on preview, was) turning into a Gueri vs. Ben deathmatch, I’m going to take a look. This is not a wall of words, just a read-through of Gueri’s posts with highlights: Though Gueri has pointed to his smudge of Chronos (a point in his favor), it’s also the case that he criticized AllWalker’s vote on Chronos earlier in the same Day. I can see where Diver is coming from on the “why do you think TexCat was killed by scum?” point, though I’m not a big fan of the single-sentence scum slip as investigative tool. [this post is interesting](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=11652400&postcount=1192) (#1192) as it suggests that Thing Fish (town), Alka (third party but as far as scum knew, town), Amrussel (town), Drain Bead (probably town), and Gryff (almost confirmed town), as well as Gueri himself, are kinda scummy for setting up the Daphne (town) wagon. [Throwing doubt on Boozy and Alka’s claim](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=11658993&postcount=1378) could be healthy skepticism, or could be a scum tactic to prevent townies from confirming each other. Unlike myself and Gryff, Guiri was mainly focused on Alka and Boozy as playing a two-man game. I actually think the re-vote of Thing was reasonable considering the timing (after he claimed but before the fuller claim that explained why he self-protected Night One). Not sure what to make of his “the politician seems like scum to me” posts. Point in Gueri’s favor: [Cat on Day 3](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=11682537&postcount=1726) asked me why I hadn’t WoW’d Gueri on Night 2, noted that Gueri’s vote was in a more suspicious place on the Fish-wagon than Cat’s was. [This](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=11686568&postcount=1794) plausibly reads as a scum trying to justify hovering until they can see if the Drain Bead counter-wagon has momentum. Also worth noting that if Ben was trying to find a reason to believe Cat’s claim, so was Gueri, both before and after Cat claimed, up until Cat fingered him as scum. On preview, I see Gryff has shifted his vote to USCDiver; I’m going to go ahead and shift the other way anyway. Post #1192 (the Daphne wagon FOS post) is the closest thing to a scum tell I’ve seen so far among my candidates. And, yes, **Guiri** , this my second vote of the day and so probably full of crap. **unvote USCDiver** **vote Guiri** ---
**Author:** ![GuiriEnEspana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bc79bd/32.png) [@GuiriEnEspana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuiriEnEspana)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2009, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938/2363 "2009-11-04T16:12:10Z")
The game is about suspicion, and I believe I’ve been quite suspicious of and curious about almost everything throughout the game. Snipping mine: > [@Tom\_Scud](#): > > Though Gueri has pointed to his smudge of Chronos (a point in his favor), it’s also the case that he criticized AllWalker’s vote on Chronos earlier in the same Day. I was not critizing the vote, I said “I don’t know how I feel about” the vote. My understanding of the game (this was Day 1 of my first ever game and I’d recently subbed) was that the leader would take his or her time to analyze all the arguments and ideas proposed so far in the game and would then place a single set-in-stone vote which would either ratify an existing bandwagon or propose an alternative which s/he felt was more deserving of the vote. So, when he voted, I thought I should at least consider whether he had a strong argument and if my vote should go to the same place. I was surprised that no-one else joined him and I was not sure whether to do so myself or not. I did not see a convincing argument against **Chronos** at the time and so I posted my confusion. > [@Tom\_Scud](#): > > I can see where Diver is coming from on the “why do you think TexCat was killed by scum?” point, though I’m not a big fan of the single-sentence scum slip as investigative tool. My question was “Why would scum kill **TexCat**?”. Where’s the scum slip there? I didn’t say “It’s interesting that scum killed **TexCat** ” or "Why did scum kill **TexCat** , I wondered why scum (or, as I later clarified) anyone would have targetted **TexCat** on Day 1. > [@Tom\_Scud](#): > > [this post is interesting](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=11652400&postcount=1192) (#1192) as it suggests that Thing Fish (town), Alka (third party but as far as scum knew, town), Amrussel (town), Drain Bead (probably town), and Gryff (almost confirmed town), as well as Gueri himself, are kinda scummy for setting up the Daphne (town) wagon. To me it seemed like a number of people expressed suspicions without following up with a vote, stirring the pot a little, and then when a couple of lame votes came along shortly afterwards I felt I’d been drawn into a “me too” vicious circle and wanted to point that out to others. > [@Tom\_Scud](#): > > [Throwing doubt on Boozy and Alka’s claim](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=11658993&postcount=1378) could be healthy skepticism, or could be a scum tactic to prevent townies from confirming each other. Unlike myself and Gryff, Guiri was mainly focused on Alka and Boozy as playing a two-man game. As it now appears, I was right to be suspicious of **Alka**. Do you mean “a two-man game” instead of a “three-man game” or instead of judging each one individually? > [@Tom\_Scud](#): > > I actually think the re-vote of Thing was reasonable considering the timing (after he claimed but before the fuller claim that explained why he self-protected Night One). Thanks, I did feel crap about it afterwards. > [@Tom\_Scud](#): > > Not sure what to make of his “the politician seems like scum to me” posts. Buying **Thing** ’s vote and making him vote himself appeared anti-town to me. > [@Tom\_Scud](#): > > Point in Gueri’s favor: [Cat on Day 3](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=11682537&postcount=1726) asked me why I hadn’t WoW’d Gueri on Night 2, noted that Gueri’s vote was in a more suspicious place on the Fish-wagon than Cat’s was. Good point. > [@Tom\_Scud](#): > > [This](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=11686568&postcount=1794) plausibly reads as a scum trying to justify hovering until they can see if the Drain Bead counter-wagon has momentum. I felt as guilty as both **Chronos** and **DB** for **Thing** ’s mislynch and thought it would be extremely stupid to vote for either of them for an action I too had committed. I was waiting for a better argument to come along than “posting his software” or “not being analytical”. > [@Tom\_Scud](#): > > Also worth noting that if Ben was trying to find a reason to believe Cat’s claim, so was Gueri, both before and after Cat claimed, up until Cat fingered him as scum. Can you point out what you’re referring to? I think I was pretty clear that I agreed with your suspicions of **Alka** as a third party, questioned his towniness, but also was pretty adamant about lynching **CIAS** : [#1998](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=11702284&postcount=1998),[#2064](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=11704985&postcount=2064), [#2065 NETA](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=11704990&postcount=2065), > [@Tom\_Scud](#): > > On preview, I see Gryff has shifted his vote to USCDiver; I’m going to go ahead and shift the other way anyway. Post #1192 (the Daphne wagon FOS post) is the closest thing to a scum tell I’ve seen so far among my candidates. I’m starting to wonder about my own candidates now. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2009, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938/2364 "2009-11-04T16:19:28Z")
> [@GuiriEnEspana](#): > > Can you point out what you’re referring to? I think I was pretty clear that I agreed with your suspicions of **Alka** as a third party, questioned his towniness, but also was pretty adamant about lynching **CIAS** : > [#1998](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=11702284&postcount=1998),[#2064](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=11704985&postcount=2064), [#2065 NETA](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=11704990&postcount=2065), I was thinking of [this post](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=11702073#post11702073) (“we’ll wait and see what Cat has to say for himself”) and also your post confirming his investigation, though of course that latter could have been you being fooled. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2009, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938/2365 "2009-11-04T16:22:11Z")
> [@GuiriEnEspana](#): > > As it now appears, I was right to be suspicious of **Alka**. Do you mean “a two-man game” instead of a “three-man game” or instead of judging each one individually? I mean seeing it as Boozy and Alka in it together, instead of Alka as third party. ---
**Author:** ![GuiriEnEspana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bc79bd/32.png) [@GuiriEnEspana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuiriEnEspana)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2009, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938/2366 "2009-11-04T16:29:24Z")
> [@Tom\_Scud](#): > > I was thinking of [this post](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=11702073#post11702073) (“we’ll wait and see what Cat has to say for himself”) and also your post confirming his investigation, though of course that latter could have been you being fooled. Remember that **Alka** had just voted for himself as leader and had declared himself a confirmed townie. You had just exposed your theory on the nuclear countermeasure and **CIAS** had not yet posted - I don’t see it as finding a reason to believe **CIAS** ’s claim as he hadn’t made one yet. Re: **Boozy** and **Alka** , I obviously made a mistake, it that a scumtell? ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2009, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938/2367 "2009-11-04T16:56:16Z")
> [@USCDiver](#): > > Especially since it was less than 24 hours after you said (paraphrased) “If we were to take all claims as plausible for the moment, we shouldn’t be voting for any of them” I was curious about this paraphrase, and [found the post](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=11661389&postcount=1422). I don’t think there’s really a contradiction between that post and evaluating Thing Fish’s later claim (first version) as lacking - the self-protect without the further info about the role really was suspicious. I’m trying to decide if my suspicious about post 1192 are classic Tom overreach a la my wall on Drain or not. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2009, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938/2368 "2009-11-04T16:57:24Z")
NETA: we in fact know that at least one Town player ( **amrussell** ), presented with the same facts as Guiri was, made the same voting decision. ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2009, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938/2369 "2009-11-04T17:58:41Z")
@ **Guiri** – On quick review, it looks like you, **Tom** and **Scuba Ben** were the only three to question the motives behind **Alka** ’s accusation. That’s something that Scum would certainly have been interested in doing if they thought they could get away with it. I don’t see your later support for **CIAS** ’s lynch as taking away from the impression afforded by that first impulse; with Day talk in the picure, **CIAS** or another Scum yanking your chain is always a possibility. However, I don’t agree with **Tom** on his interpretation of post #1192. You continue to strike me as a very cautious player in many ways, and it would take some serious, erm, “confidence”, if you’re Scum, to restrospectively call out a bandwagon that included yourself and likely no other Scum as being Scummy. It doesn’t seem like you. ---
**Author:** ![USCDiver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/uscdiver/32/354_2.png) [@USCDiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/USCDiver)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2009, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938/2370 "2009-11-04T18:42:36Z")
> [@Gryff](#): > > Good Point, though one you are using alot. I had forgotten about that smudge. > > Unvote > > Vote: **USCDiver** Could you back up your vote on me with a reason? ---
**Author:** ![Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d9b06d/32.png) [@Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boozahol_Squid_P.I)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2009, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938/2371 "2009-11-04T18:58:24Z")
All right. I’m not convinced by much right now, but the squid-gut says to vote for Guiri. **vote:Guiri** ---
**Author:** ![GuiriEnEspana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bc79bd/32.png) [@GuiriEnEspana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuiriEnEspana)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2009, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938/2372 "2009-11-04T19:06:35Z")
> [@Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](#): > > All right. I’m not convinced by much right now, but the squid-gut says to vote for Guiri. > > **vote:Guiri** Well, thank you for voting at a reasonable time. I’d like the oppotunity to continue to defend myself before this mislynch, can you give your opinion on my 30-odd days in the game so at least the people who haven’t voted may have more than a gut feeling? ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2009, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938/2373 "2009-11-04T19:14:14Z")
> [@Normal\_Phase](#): > > @ **Guiri** – On quick review, it looks like you, **Tom** and **Scuba Ben** were the only three to question the motives behind **Alka** ’s accusation. That’s something that Scum would certainly have been interested in doing if they thought they could get away with it. Though of course, (WIFOM alert) it’s also entirely possible that Cat sent out an early-Morning alert on the scum board to the effect of “my berynium got stolen; I’m humped. I’ll try to spread some confusion on the main board, but no one defend me; maybe we can get a mislynch or two out of anyone who I can bamboozle”. ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2009, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938/2374 "2009-11-04T19:30:39Z")
Almost goes without saying. ---
**Author:** ![GuiriEnEspana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bc79bd/32.png) [@GuiriEnEspana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuiriEnEspana)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2009, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938/2375 "2009-11-04T20:35:43Z")
This’ll probably be a crossi-post but anyway: Unofficial Vote Count E&OE (because I thought I was the vote leader): Scuba (4): Guiri, DrainBead, AllWalker, Normal USCD (1): Gryff Tilta (1): Scuba Mr. Scud (1): OaOW Guiri (3): USC Diver, Tom Scud, Boozy **Boozy** ’s vote is fixed and he can break an eventual tie, **Tilta** said she’d be back to vote so she could tip the scales. @ **Tom** , what more can I say to get you to move your vote? I believe I’ve been an active, provocative and logical addition to the Town team in our fight against scum. I haven’t been shy and I haven’t gone quiet. I’ve made a number of what could be considered bad calls or posts that needed clarification but that’s what happens when you’re a noob with no-one to guide you (do you really think the scum team wouldn’t have silenced me by now?). I’ve enjoyed the game and dedicated a lot of time and effort to it and would like to be around when Town wins. I’d actually like to move my vote but at the moment, that would be suicidal… ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2009, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938/2376 "2009-11-04T20:51:10Z")
Re-thinking. For now, **unvote Guiri** ---
**Author:** ![GuiriEnEspana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bc79bd/32.png) [@GuiriEnEspana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuiriEnEspana)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2009, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938/2377 "2009-11-04T21:14:57Z")
> [@Tom\_Scud](#): > > Re-thinking. For now, > > unvote Guiri /bleached Thank you. For now. **[Color=Red]Unvote Scuba\_Ben** After recent events, I need to rethink too. ---
**Author:** ![GuiriEnEspana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bc79bd/32.png) [@GuiriEnEspana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuiriEnEspana)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2009, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938/2378 "2009-11-04T21:20:03Z")
Oops, darn BB… **Unvote Scuba\_Ben** ---
**Author:** ![GuiriEnEspana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bc79bd/32.png) [@GuiriEnEspana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuiriEnEspana)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2009, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938/2379 "2009-11-04T22:18:44Z")
Sorry for the noise today. I must correct an earlier comment I made, looking back over previous days’ events I noticed I misquoted myself here: > [@GuiriEnEspana](#): > > My question was “Why would scum kill **TexCat**?”. Where’s the scum slip there? I didn’t say “It’s interesting that scum killed **TexCat** ” or "Why did scum kill **TexCat** , I wondered why scum (or, as I later clarified) anyone would have targetted **TexCat** on Day 1. What I actually asked was: > [@GuiriEnEspana](#): > > I don’t get the \*\*TexCat \*\*kill, are scum doing Lynch the lurker too? Seems pretty strange, no? Which I then clarified with: > [@GuiriEnEspana](#): > > I couldn’t imagine why anyone (I assumed scum but realise there may be a SK) would target TexCat when there were at least 3 other town-aligned role claims apart from **Jpei** ’s, each of which, I imagined, would be better targets. Maybe there’s a paranoid gun owner or bomb among us who was approached by TexCat in a recruiting ploy? ---
**Author:** ![Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d9b06d/32.png) [@Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boozahol_Squid_P.I)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2009, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938/2380 "2009-11-04T22:29:31Z")
> [@GuiriEnEspana](#): > > I’d actually like to move my vote but at the moment, that would be suicidal… Where to? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938.md?page=118) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938.md?page=120)