# Screamers Mafia **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [September 21, 2009, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938 "2009-09-21T13:16:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 142
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2009, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938/2821 "2009-11-21T03:32:57Z")
Looking forward to it, AW. šŸ™‚ But I might not process it for a couple of days. Will be a busy weekend. ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2009, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938/2822 "2009-11-21T03:44:28Z")
Bah, crosspost. Just to address the one question, pushing the OAOW lynch is not so much a direct point against you as that it is consistent with SK motives. Leave the ā€œinvestigatorā€ alive, then lynch him the next day _because_ heā€™s alive. If you luck out the one night, youā€™ve gotten yourself through the next day as well. If you think you can pull it off (and you did have a strong argument), it might be worth the risk. Unfortunately, this point really applies to all of the SK suspects at least somewhat, including me. We all came out against OAOW. Guiri was the weakest, maybe, but also had the weakest motives, so even that doesnā€™t help. (Iā€™d offer an interpretation of my own comments that day as indicative of true surprise and confusion and not ulterior motives and PIS, but Iā€™m tired. Anyone else wants to go look, help yourself.) Iā€™m not sure about your powers; thatā€™s one thing I need to re-read ā€“ whether I buy that you really were surprised to be alive. I think itā€™s a point in your favor if it reads that way; a point against if it does not. (With a bomb in the game, itā€™s perfectly reasonable for a SK to have a role like yours, so your survival in itself is not persuasive to me. But your possible mis-read of your own role might be.) Anyway, see you all in a couple of days. ---
**Author:** ![MHaye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bbe5ce/32.png) [@MHaye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MHaye)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2009, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938/2823 "2009-11-21T16:19:54Z")
The time is 4:20pm GMT. Drain Bead has been elected Town Leader by unanimous vote. Administrivia. When gauging whether a post has been made before or after a deadline, I will use the timestamp the board places on the post, as that is the only clock we all have in common. ---
**Author:** ![GuiriEnEspana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bc79bd/32.png) [@GuiriEnEspana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuiriEnEspana)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2009, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938/2824 "2009-11-21T21:12:29Z")
FWIW State of play E&OE Alive: \*\*Normal Phase \*\*- Town Bomb (kills night-killer or last lynch voter, unconfirmed) **USCDiver** - Vanilla Town (unconfirmed) **Allwalker** - Town Tough Guy (survives one kill, unconfirmed but did survive one kill) **GuirienEspana** - Vanilla Town (unconfirmed) **Drain Bead** - Vanilla Town (unconfirmed) Dead Town: BillMC - Vanilla TexCat - Recruiting Mason jpei - Governor Thing Fish - Bodyguard amrussell - Vanilla peekercpa - Doc-in-Training Freudian Slit - Jailor Daphne - Bartender Scuba\_Ben - Vanilla Boozahol Squid, PI - Politician Gryff - Inventor Oredigger77 - Vanilla Tom Scud - Vanilla Dead Scum: Jimmy Chitwood - Screamer Model 5, Investigator Chronos - Screamer Model 2, Roleblocker CatinaSuit - Screamer Model 5, Investigator tiltawhirl - Screamer Model 4, Hider One and Only - Screamer Model 3, Priest Skipped Town: Alka Seltzer - Government Collector (Third Party Bling thief) Unknown roles: Serial Killer (or possibly not) Possibly 1 Screamer Leaders: Day 1 Leader: AllWalker -\> jpei Day 2 Leader: Boozahol Squid, P.I. Day 3 Leader: Alka Seltzer Day 4 Leader: Boozy Day 5 Leader: Tom Scud Day 6 Leader: Tom Scud Day 7 Leader: Tom Scud Day 8 Leader: Drain Bead Votes spoilered and color coded Day 1 Final Vote jpei (1): Freudian peeker (3): Gryff, Boozy, Cold Phoenix Drain (2): USCD, Cat Bill (8): Jimmy, Drain, Tilta, Alka, Daphne, Allwalker, Texcat, jpei Boozy (3): Bill, Thing, Chronos Cat (2): amrussell, Tom Cold Phoenix (2): Oredigger, Guiri Tom (1): Peeker Chronos (1): Normal Day 2 final vote: Gryff(1): Daphne (3): Gryff, Drain, Chronos Freudian (4): AllWalker, Tilta, Tom, peeker Thing (7): amrussell, Boozy, Cat, Normal, Scuba, Thing, Guiri Peeker (1): Alka Day 3 final vote: Chronos (9): OreDigger, USCD, Tilta, Gryff, Daphne, Drain, Cat, OaOW, Boozy Drain (6) : Tom, Normal, Alka, Chronos, Scuba, Guiri No vote: AllWalker Day 4 final vote: Guiri (1): Cat Cat (13): everyone else. Day 5 final vote: Scuba (5): Drain, AllWalker, Normal, Guiri, Tilta USCD (1): Gryff Tilta (3): Scuba, Tom, USCD Tom (1): OaOW Guiri (1): Boozy Day 6 final vote: Tilta (3): Guiri, Tilta, USCD Normal (2): OaOW, Allwalker AllWalker (4): Normal, Tom, OreDigger, Drain Day 7 final vote: OaOW (6): Everyone else ---
**Author:** ![GuiriEnEspana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bc79bd/32.png) [@GuiriEnEspana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuiriEnEspana)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2009, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938/2825 "2009-11-21T23:29:15Z")
NETA Welcome **MHaye** I canā€™t believe no-oneā€™s voted yet toDay - I expected to be having my last meal before my lynchā€¦ I came here to vote **AllWalker** as Iā€™d been quite convinced of **DB** , **Normal** and **USC** ā€™s towniness so far in the game (in that order) so **AllWalker** , by exclusion, had to be the bad guy. But, while re-reading, Iā€™m starting to have doubts about **USC** - OMGUS for his votes and pokes at me aside. @ **USC** , could you explain again why you felt it was so necessary to break a tie on Day 6? You said that your promised vote for **Normal** and your final vote for **Tilta** were not intended as a method to save **AllWalker** (which we now know actually means save **Tilta** ) but an intent to break a tie at all costs. Given that **Tom** , an almost triple-confirmed Townie was the leader, why was it so difficult for you to accept a tie? As an aside, I noticed this post of mine which should resolve any doubts that I am scum and on the same team as **OaOW** : [#2644](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=11774767&postcount=2644) where I asked **Tom** : ā€œAre there really no other options apart from **USC**? I understand your reasoning why **OaOW** is more likely to be the SK than scum but is ā€œscum would never do thatā€ always true?ā€. I also suggested he look back at **OreDigger** but the **OaOW** poke is relevant and turned out to be true, against all expectations. ---
**Author:** ![Drain\_Bead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e47774/32.png) [@Drain\_Bead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drain_Bead)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2009, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938/2826 "2009-11-22T16:08:40Z")
So if we test Normalā€™s claim toDay and heā€™s Town, we pretty much HAVE to have the last vote on him be our remaining killer (I canā€™t see there being more than one, and if there is, weā€™re sunk anyway). If Normal is Town and the last person voting for him is Town, we go into the Night with three alive and come out with two, giving the killer the win. If we donā€™t test his claim toDay, we still have a shot tomorrow, provided there is only one more killer out there. Weā€™ll come out with threeā€¦AllWalker, Normal, and one of Guiri and Diver, Iā€™d imagine, based on how prevailing thought seems to be going. At that point, weā€™d have to have some sort of elaborate tie setup, involving AllWalker as leader, a Normal lynch, and Guiri/Diver being the last vote on him, with Normal voting for that person, so if they switch AllWalker can break the tie. If AllWalker is our remaining killer, he deserves to win. šŸ˜‰ So given all that, our decision toDay seems to be down to Guiri or Diver. ---
**Author:** ![USCDiver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/uscdiver/32/354_2.png) [@USCDiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/USCDiver)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2009, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938/2827 "2009-11-22T20:04:15Z")
> [@GuiriEnEspana](#): > > @ **USC** , could you explain again why you felt it was so necessary to break a tie on Day 6? You said that your promised vote for **Normal** and your final vote for **Tilta** were not intended as a method to save **AllWalker** (which we now know actually means save **Tilta** ) but an intent to break a tie at all costs. Given that **Tom** , an almost triple-confirmed Townie was the leader, why was it so difficult for you to accept a tie? It wasnā€™t that I felt it was necessary to break a tie. I never said anything of that sort. I was accusing you of being scummy for purposefully preserving a tie in order to lynch a player you werenā€™t even current voting for. I understand that ties have a different mechanism in this game than in most others, but that doesnā€™t make them inherently anti-town. You wanted to give essentially ultimate power to **Tom Scud** who has since been confirmed town, but at the time he wasnā€™t. I didnā€™t consider him confirmed until \*\*Orediggerā€™s \*\*death. I had essentially offered myself up as a sacrifice to test Normalā€™s claim and you wanted to move the vote back to a tie. I see that as very anti-town. > [@](#): > > As an aside, I noticed this post of mine which should resolve any doubts that I am scum and on the same team as **OaOW** : [#2644](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=11774767&postcount=2644) where I asked **Tom** : ā€œAre there really no other options apart from **USC**? I understand your reasoning why **OaOW** is more likely to be the SK than scum but is ā€œscum would never do thatā€ always true?ā€. I also suggested he look back at **OreDigger** but the **OaOW** poke is relevant and turned out to be true, against all expectations. How does this, in any way, resolve any doubts? Youā€™re essentially using the same ā€œsaying ā€˜scum would never do thatā€™ is dangerousā€ argument you used against \*\*OaOW \*\*to try to clear yourself. > [@Drain\_Bead](#): > > So if we test Normalā€™s claim toDay and heā€™s Town, we pretty much HAVE to have the last vote on him be our remaining killer (I canā€™t see there being more than one, and if there is, weā€™re sunk anyway). If Normal is Town and the last person voting for him is Town, we go into the Night with three alive and come out with two, giving the killer the win. > > If we donā€™t test his claim toDay, we still have a shot tomorrow, provided there is only one more killer out there. Weā€™ll come out with threeā€¦AllWalker, Normal, and one of Guiri and Diver, Iā€™d imagine, based on how prevailing thought seems to be going. At that point, weā€™d have to have some sort of elaborate tie setup, involving AllWalker as leader, a Normal lynch, and Guiri/Diver being the last vote on him, with Normal voting for that person, so if they switch AllWalker can break the tie. If AllWalker is our remaining killer, he deserves to win. šŸ˜‰ > > So given all that, our decision toDay seems to be down to Guiri or Diver. Iā€™ve been struggling a bit with this Today as well. Is there any way to test \*\*Normalā€™s \*\*claim safely Today? Iā€™m trying to decide whether our final killing faction is a SK or the remainder of a scum team. I donā€™t believe we have both given our recent sting of single-kill nights and the fact that a 6 member scum team AND a SK seems to be very unbalanced. That being said, I think looking at the voting and death patterns, that weā€™re looking at two Scum teams and no SK. Much less likely one 5 member scum team (which is now gone) and a remaining SK. Ideally, like you say, weā€™d somehow have to make our most scummy player cast the last vote in a lynch of **Normal**. It would be too easy for that player to unvote at the last minute essentially winning the game right there. So I donā€™t think we can risk that Today. I think our best option Today is to lynch **Guiri**. Which hopefully would end the Game right there. On the off chance he flips Town it would leave a final Day showdown with me, \*\*Normal \*\*and **AllWalker** (assuming Drainā€™s death). But before I jump to any conclusions. Iā€™ve been trying to think outside the box, bucking conventional wisdom and thinking of what would happen if we lynched **Drain** Today. We would of course lose a nearly confirmed Town player, BUT it would give us way more information following the Nightā€™s kill. With me, **AllWalker** , \*\*Normal \*\*and \*\*Guiri \*\*entering the Night, weā€™re probably leaving a three player showdown with me, \*\*Guiri \*\*and **Normal**. So which is easier to play in the End Game? Me vs \*\*Normal \*\*vs \*\*AllWalker \*\*or Me vs \*\*Guiri \*\*vs **Normal**? I think the chance to end the game Today outweighs any possible information game. **vote Guiri** - does that make you feel better, buddy? As for why Iā€™m a poor choice to lynch Today. I think you can look at my voting record and see that I have voted for players on both Scum teams (assuming there are two). I am VERY unlikely to be a SK because of the fact that OaOW survived the previous Night. This was before she had ā€˜investigatedā€™ me as Vanilla Town and so I would not have been sure of her deception until the following day. I wouldnā€™t have enough gumption to leave a role cop alive. ---
**Author:** ![GuiriEnEspana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bc79bd/32.png) [@GuiriEnEspana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuiriEnEspana)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2009, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938/2828 "2009-11-22T20:26:21Z")
> [@USCDiver](#): > > It wasnā€™t that I felt it was necessary to break a tie. I never said anything of that sort. /snipped You previously stated: > [@USCDiver](#): > > I was trying to avoid a tie (no matter the game mechanics, it is still not a good idea) and saving the Town from another potential mislynch Tomorrow. /snipped So please tell us why you voted for **Tilta**. For this contradiction and for being a scum trying to save his last scum partner from lynch: **Vote USCDiver** As for his voting record, thereā€™s no real info from being the 5th vote on **Chronos** , part of a unanimous vote on **Cat** or two votes on **Tilta** when, as co-scum, he knew she was hiding. I rest my case and hope that Town wins toDay. ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2009, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938/2829 "2009-11-22T21:35:42Z")
Iā€™m not going to try to place my own vote or make an argument against anyone until sometime Tuesday unless Drain Bead decides she wants things to happen faster; I just donā€™t have more than 10 minutes to string together and think between now and then. ---
**Author:** ![USCDiver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/uscdiver/32/354_2.png) [@USCDiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/USCDiver)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2009, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938/2830 "2009-11-22T21:38:37Z")
**Guiri** , youā€™re misrepresenting what happened that Day. I offered to sacrifice myself in the event of a late Day tie so that we could not only test Normalā€™s claim, but also prove my own towniness. I wasnā€™t breaking a tie simply for the sake of breaking a tie. You on the other hand were planning on CREATING a tie. Youā€™ve snuggling me several times during the Game, repeatedly saying you think Iā€™m town, and now all of a sudden you OMGUS vote me. ---
**Author:** ![Drain\_Bead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e47774/32.png) [@Drain\_Bead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drain_Bead)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2009, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938/2831 "2009-11-22T22:11:41Z")
I do not want things to happen any faster than that. Iā€™m probably going to need that much time to decide. First, a couple of things. **USCDiver** , could you expand upon this a bit? > [@](#): > > As for why Iā€™m a poor choice to lynch Today. I think you can look at my voting record and see that I have voted for players on both Scum teams (assuming there are two). The idea to vote for me isā€¦innovative, but itā€™ll create a HUGE mess. My guess is that itā€™ll end up being **Guiri** , you, and **USCDiver** alive, and weā€™re in the same problem we were toDay only definitely in LyLo. So I donā€™t even think it would be an information game. **Guiri** , you were also voting for **tilta**. Why is it bad when **Diver** does it, but not when you do it? Canā€™t the same ā€œvoting for **tilta** to save/confirm himā€ argument be made against you? ---
**Author:** ![Drain\_Bead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e47774/32.png) [@Drain\_Bead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drain_Bead)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2009, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938/2832 "2009-11-22T22:13:38Z")
> [@USCDiver](#): > > Youā€™ve snuggling me several times during the Game, repeatedly saying you think Iā€™m town, and now all of a sudden you OMGUS vote me. Not to defend **Guiri** or anything, but is there really any option than to have the two of you be voting for one another at this point? ---
**Author:** ![USCDiver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/uscdiver/32/354_2.png) [@USCDiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/USCDiver)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2009, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938/2833 "2009-11-22T22:38:24Z")
> [@Drain\_Bead](#): > > **USCDiver** , could you expand upon this a bit? Sure. Look at the end of Day voting records. Except for Day 1 and 2, I have ended EVERY single day with a vote on a player who eventually turned up Scum. Assuming that there are two scum teams and I was on one of them, I might not have known that 2-3 of those players were going to turn up scum, but at least 1-2 of those other players would indeed be on the same team as me. > [@](#): > > The idea to vote for me isā€¦innovative, but itā€™ll create a HUGE mess. My guess is that itā€™ll end up being **Guiri** , you, and **USCDiver** alive, and weā€™re in the same problem we were toDay only definitely in LyLo. So I donā€™t even think it would be an information game. Well, I am USCDiver, but I know what you mean. ---
**Author:** ![USCDiver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/uscdiver/32/354_2.png) [@USCDiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/USCDiver)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2009, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938/2834 "2009-11-22T23:11:02Z")
> [@Drain\_Bead](#): > > Not to defend **Guiri** or anything, but is there really any option than to have the two of you be voting for one another at this point? Thatā€™s what Iā€™m trying to reason through. I think that \*\*Guiri \*\*is our lone remaining Scum or even SK (given he would have known OaOWā€™s investigations were Bogus and could afford to let him live). But I have to be open to the possibility Iā€™m wrong. If Guiri is NOT scum then I think the only other option is that Normal is Scum but less likely to be SK( given the danger a truthy OaOW claim would have been to him). Hereā€™s the possibilities of how I see things shaking down. If we lynch Guiri Today: Scenario #1: Scum Guiri lynched Today; Game Over Town Wins! Scenario #2: Town Guiri mislynched Today, Town Drain killed Tonight. The next Day it comes down to me, AllWalker and Normal. At that point Normal has to die with either AllWalker or me being the last voter (I know Iā€™m town, so Iā€™d prefer it be AllWalker) #2a: If Normal is lying, then he dies and AllWalker and I survive. Game Over Town Wins! #2b: If Iā€™m the last voter and Normal is telling the truth, he and I both die. AllWalker survives as the remaining Scum. Game Over Scum Winsā€¦ #2c: If AllWalker is the last voter and Normal is telling the truth, he and AllWalker both die. I survive as Town. Game Over Town Wins! If we lynch Drain Today: Scenario #1: Scum Drain lynched Today. Holy Shit! Town Wins! (unlikely, I know) Scenario #2: Town Drain mislynched Today; Town Guiri or USCDiver killed Tonight. Weā€™re essentially in the same boat as Scenario #2 above. Scenario #3: Town Drain mislynched Today; Town AllWalker killed Tonight. Weā€™re essentially in the same boat as before, but now with me and Guiri having to battle over who is the last to place a vote on Normal. So unless we can end the game Today, Normal has to be lynched at some point. ---
**Author:** ![USCDiver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/uscdiver/32/354_2.png) [@USCDiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/USCDiver)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2009, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938/2835 "2009-11-22T23:23:46Z")
Oh wait! I have an idea! **Mods, when the rules say the Leader can ā€˜break tiesā€™, does that mean that if the Leader ends the Day voting for one of the players who is involved in the tie that player is automatically chosen? Or would the Leader still get a chance to choose between the tied players even if that meant choosing the one they did not vote for? Also, would a tie breaking Leader be placing a vote on that person or just choosing?** Hereā€™s what Iā€™m thinking: Normal, would you be willing to be the lone voter on yourself for Lynch Today? In other words, if you were the only player to vote for yourself and the rest of us didnā€™t vote at all, you would end the Day in a tie with whoever Drain voted for to start the timer. Hopefully then Drain could ā€˜chooseā€™ you in the tiebreaker. This would blow yourself up and allow us to remove your bombiness from the equation without risking any of the other players. Another option would be for Normal to vote for himself and then have Drain start the end of Day with a ā€˜No Lynchā€™ vote. In this scenario, if Normal is scum and plays along, then the game is over with a Town win. If heā€™s telling the Truth and Drain is killed Tonight, then the End game comes down to me, AllWalker and Guiri which makes things more manageable. What am I missing here? ---
**Author:** ![GuiriEnEspana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bc79bd/32.png) [@GuiriEnEspana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuiriEnEspana)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2009, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938/2836 "2009-11-22T23:29:57Z")
@ **Drain** , apart from the fact that I am Town and explained my reasoning for voting **Tilta** both at the time of my vote and afterwards, **USC** has posted inconsistent reasoning and has given no motive for his final vote change from me to **Tilta**. On several occasions I said that the **Tilta** lynch was the safest option as, in the worst case scenario, weā€™d have at most 2 less townies due to night kills, the best case was that weā€™d catch a lying scum and have just 1 night kill. I did not think the case against **AllWalker** was strong but faced with losing either **AllWalker** or **Normal** , I would have preferred to lose **AllWalker**. This is the reason I kept my vote where it was and promised to move it in the event of **Normal** going 1 vote up on **AllWalker**. I did not hide my reasoning and, as it happens, did not have to move my vote. Equally likely Town or scum, I admit, but there was no confusion over my motives. **USC** stated his desire, in the event of a tie towards dusk, to be the last vote on **Normal** to prove his towniness and called me scummy when I said Iā€™d vote the opposite way to save **Normal** (and him too). When **Tilta** voted for herself and created a tie with **AllWalker** , **USC** said (something like) ā€œfuck thisā€ and moved his vote to **Tilta** - and not **AllWalker**. To me that was an inexplicable move given his previous comments (he wasnā€™t voting for **Normal** , he was unvoting me, his number 1 candidate for scum and he didnā€™t vote for **AllWalker** even though he never expressed a wish to save him or made a concerted effort to defend him). The next day, when **Tom** discussed the votes and **Tilta** ā€™s flip, **USC** said that he wanted to avoid a tie but was not trying to save **AllWalker** (or **Tilta** ). Earlier, when I asked him about this he denied ever saying he wanted to avoid a tie and so I caught him misrepresenting his own motives - plausibly a scummy action. @ **USC** , when you first started accusing me of being scum I did a WoW and found nothing specially scummy and decided not to vote you. Even toDay, in my earlier post, I stated that I found you the 3rd most likely Town of the 4 players remaining and that I intended to vote **AllWalker** as the least trusted of the remaining players. However, when I was re-reading I noticed the apparent contradiction in your votes and decided it was best to clarify this before voting. Since your own answer denied a statement youā€™d previously made, I think you lied. This is admittedly my only case against you but I donā€™t find your votes tell us an awful lot and, if you are scum, they actually make plenty of sense. If I have misrepresented you, I apologize. Will you please take 2 minutes to explain your vote changes on Day 6? In the meantime, I admit that OMGUS may have got the better of me and we could both actualy be VTs desperate to find the last bad guy. **Unvote** ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2009, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938/2837 "2009-11-22T23:51:25Z")
> [@USCDiver](#): > > Oh wait! I have an idea! > > **Mods, when the rules say the Leader can ā€˜break tiesā€™, does that mean that if the Leader ends the Day voting for one of the players who is involved in the tie that player is automatically chosen? Or would the Leader still get a chance to choose between the tied players even if that meant choosing the one they did not vote for? Also, would a tie breaking Leader be placing a vote on that person or just choosing?** Essentially, the leader is given an extra vote. He/She could vote for their candidate if he is involved in the tie, or the other person if they want. Their vote must be for one of the tied people(they must break the tie). ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2009, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938/2838 "2009-11-22T23:52:29Z")
Vote Count: Guiri(1): USCDiver ---
**Author:** ![USCDiver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/uscdiver/32/354_2.png) [@USCDiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/USCDiver)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2009, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938/2839 "2009-11-23T00:39:18Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > Essentially, the leader is given an extra vote. He/She could vote for their candidate if he is involved in the tie, or the other person if they want. Their vote must be for one of the tied people(they must break the tie). **Would a leader who chose a bomb player as a tie breaker be considered the final vote and thus in danger of being blown up?** ---
**Author:** ![Drain\_Bead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e47774/32.png) [@Drain\_Bead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drain_Bead)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2009, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938/2840 "2009-11-23T01:23:19Z")
If I wouldnā€™t be blown up if I broke a tie, then **Normal** votes for himself, I vote for a random person, then break the tie in favor of **Normal**. That either ends the game, or puts it down to **Diver** , **Guiri** , and **AllWalker** again Tomorrow. Not helpful. I see no way to win this game that doesnā€™t involve either you or **Guiri** dying toDay, and the fact that youā€™re trying to come up with alternatives to that concerns me. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938.md?page=141) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938.md?page=143)