# Screamers Mafia **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [September 21, 2009, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938 "2009-09-21T13:16:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 143
**Author:** ![USCDiver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/uscdiver/32/354_2.png) [@USCDiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/USCDiver)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2009, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938/2841 "2009-11-23T01:32:32Z")
> [@GuiriEnEspana](#): > > If I have misrepresented you, I apologize. Will you please take 2 minutes to explain your vote changes on Day 6? My thought process at the time was that you and \*\*tiltawhirl \*\*were both Scum. I had a vote on you at the time, but I was highly suspect of \*\*tiltawhirl’s \*\*claim as evidenced by my vote the previous day in [Post #2400](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=11743517&postcount=2400). The following Day I was NOT suspicious of either Normal or AllWalker which is why I didn’t vote for either of them. I only offered myself as a tie breaker to test Normal’s claim. When \*\*tiltawhirl \*\*voted for herself, I became even more convinced of her scumminess and switched my vote to her. I had already noted that I was skeptical of her role and if I could have lynched her I would. In fact, my vote put her in the vote lead, but was soon afterwards negated by Drain’s switch. I understand that my vote as a Townie to lynch her is indistinguishable from a Scum vote to save her. But as a Scum, I would only have had knowledge of her true role mechanics had I been on the same team as her, which is not even known at this time either. ---
**Author:** ![USCDiver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/uscdiver/32/354_2.png) [@USCDiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/USCDiver)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2009, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938/2842 "2009-11-23T01:35:29Z")
> [@Drain\_Bead](#): > > If I wouldn’t be blown up if I broke a tie, then **Normal** votes for himself, I vote for a random person, then break the tie in favor of **Normal**. That either ends the game, or puts it down to **Diver** , **Guiri** , and **AllWalker** again Tomorrow. Not helpful. I guess I disagree that an End-Game between three essentially vanilla-claimed players (\*\*AllWalker’s \*\*ability having been used) is equivalent to an end-game with a claimed bomb. I’m more than willing to lynch \*\*Guiri \*\*Today and hope that the Game ends; but I’m also considering ways of avoiding the nightmare that Tomorrow will be with \*\*Normal \*\*in the three-way. ---
**Author:** ![Drain\_Bead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e47774/32.png) [@Drain\_Bead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drain_Bead)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2009, 11:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938/2843 "2009-11-23T11:37:42Z")
It won’t be a nightmare. AllWalker, as leader, votes for you. Normal self-votes and then you vote for him. Anyone who refuses to go along with this gets lynched instead, and a late switcher will create a tie that AllWalker can break to get them. The only way we lose in that circumstance is if AllWalker is scum, and if that’s the case we’re already screwed. Whereas, you are still suggesting ideas that will lead to max confusion at the end. So far you’ve suggested what would likely end up as a three-way between you, Guiri, and Normal, or getting rid of Normal toDay, which puts us in LyLo now if he’s telling the truth. ---
**Author:** ![MHaye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bbe5ce/32.png) [@MHaye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MHaye)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2009, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938/2844 "2009-11-23T12:37:21Z")
> [@USCDiver](#): > > **Would a leader who chose a bomb player as a tie breaker be considered the final vote and thus in danger of being blown up?** A fair question. I’ll think about this and issue an answer some time this evening (unless Mahaloth beats me to it ;)) ---
**Author:** ![USCDiver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/uscdiver/32/354_2.png) [@USCDiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/USCDiver)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2009, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938/2845 "2009-11-23T15:02:21Z")
> [@Drain\_Bead](#): > > It won’t be a nightmare. AllWalker, as leader, votes for you. Normal self-votes and then you vote for him. Anyone who refuses to go along with this gets lynched instead, and a late switcher will create a tie that AllWalker can break to get them. The only way we lose in that circumstance is if AllWalker is scum, and if that’s the case we’re already screwed. > > Whereas, you are still suggesting ideas that will lead to max confusion at the end. So far you’ve suggested what would likely end up as a three-way between you, Guiri, and Normal, or getting rid of Normal toDay, which puts us in LyLo now if he’s telling the truth. I see where you’re coming from, but since I know my alignment is Town and I’m suspicious of **Guiri** , I would look forward to an end game with \*\*Guiri \*\*more than one with **Normal**. But I’ll abandon the lateral thinking if it’s making you suspicious of of me. I’d like to propose that which ever of me or \*\*Guiri \*\*makes it to Tomorrow (assuming there is one) be elected Leader. After \*\*Normal \*\*votes for himself, the Leader then votes for **Normal**. This locks in that vote so that it can’t be moved. If the player instead votes for someone else or refuses the vote, Normal and \*\*AllWalker \*\*can both vote for that player. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2009, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938/2846 "2009-11-23T15:09:12Z")
> [@USCDiver](#): > > **Would a leader who chose a bomb player as a tie breaker be considered the final vote and thus in danger of being blown up?** We are getting quite hypothetical at this point. However, the answer would be that yes, the tie-breaking vote would be the “bomb trigger” vote. No more answers on that topic. ---
**Author:** ![Drain\_Bead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e47774/32.png) [@Drain\_Bead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drain_Bead)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2009, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938/2847 "2009-11-23T17:26:13Z")
> [@USCDiver](#): > > I see where you’re coming from, but since I know my alignment is Town and I’m suspicious of **Guiri** , I would look forward to an end game with \*\*Guiri \*\*more than one with **Normal**. But I’ll abandon the lateral thinking if it’s making you suspicious of of me. > > I’d like to propose that which ever of me or \*\*Guiri \*\*makes it to Tomorrow (assuming there is one) be elected Leader. After \*\*Normal \*\*votes for himself, the Leader then votes for **Normal**. This locks in that vote so that it can’t be moved. If the player instead votes for someone else or refuses the vote, Normal and \*\*AllWalker \*\*can both vote for that player. That latter part makes sense as a plan for Tomorrow. But with the former part, the only way we win is if either Guiri or Normal is Scum, so you have to see that the rest of us aren’t in the position to agree to it. Unless Normal is the Scum, one of you must die toDay in order for us to win. And if Normal is the Scum, we can just as easily get him Tomorrow, with no risk whatsoever. So one of you is gonna have to take one for the team, as the case may be. ---
**Author:** ![GuiriEnEspana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bc79bd/32.png) [@GuiriEnEspana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuiriEnEspana)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2009, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938/2848 "2009-11-23T18:20:03Z")
I don’t have any special suggestions on how we should play out the rest of the game. Everyone should simply vote for the person they think is the bad guy/gal. **USC** ’s Day 7 explanation for his Day 6 vote don’t match up but his Day 5 attack on **Tilta** and initial vote on Day 6 don’t look so scummy taken in isolation. It looks like **USC** , **Drain** and I voted **Tilta** as the safest option for the day (hoping she was scum but realizing a town flip would cause no damage to Town), not being convinced of the other arguments. If **Tilta** had been in danger (via **AllWalker** ) at the time of our votes, then the 3 votes could look like scum attempting to save a co-scum however, given the timing, I can see NO scum advantage in voting for **Tilta** while **AlWalker** was not in the vote lead as this would have meant scum, knowing **Tilta** was hiding, were choosing to avoid a lynch instead of lynching a Town player. **Vote AllWalker** ---
**Author:** ![Drain\_Bead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e47774/32.png) [@Drain\_Bead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drain_Bead)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2009, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938/2849 "2009-11-23T19:41:10Z")
The scum advantage was “confirming” **tilta** via her claim, if she were the vote leader at the end of the Day. ---
**Author:** ![GuiriEnEspana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bc79bd/32.png) [@GuiriEnEspana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuiriEnEspana)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2009, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938/2850 "2009-11-23T19:56:25Z")
Correct, but only her power would be confirmed (and IIRC she said it was a one-off power), not her alignment, much like **AllWalker** ’s power was confirmed but we still have no idea about his alignment. Would that be worth more to scum that a townie mislynch or the lynch of a potential SK? I don’t think so - maybe as a last resort if the voting isn’t going their way, but to start the day voting for what was effectively a no-lynch doesn’t seem pro-scum to me. ---
**Author:** ![AllWalker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/db5fbb/32.png) [@AllWalker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AllWalker)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2009, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938/2851 "2009-11-24T03:24:01Z")
> [@USCDiver](#): > > But before I jump to any conclusions. I’ve been trying to think outside the box, bucking conventional wisdom and thinking of what would happen if we lynched Drain Today. We would of course lose a nearly confirmed Town player, BUT it would give us way more information following the Night’s kill. Yeah… but wouldn’t that help the bad guys more than us? I mean, the extra info would help, but we’re running low on mostly confirmed players at this point. ---
**Author:** ![Drain\_Bead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e47774/32.png) [@Drain\_Bead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drain_Bead)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2009, 11:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938/2852 "2009-11-24T11:27:49Z")
I plan on voting around lunchtime today, but I may have to take my daughter to the doctor at some point. I’ll definitely vote today though–I think I’ve seen enough to make a decision. ---
**Author:** ![Drain\_Bead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e47774/32.png) [@Drain\_Bead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drain_Bead)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2009, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938/2853 "2009-11-24T14:09:12Z")
I think I’m going to be basing my decision more on recent events. Both **Diver** and **Guiri** were pinging about equally in my mind before now, and this Day has created some interesting issues. First off, **Diver**. The big point against **Diver** is his insistence that we try something, anything, other than choosing to kill either him or **Guiri** , which I find to be very anti-Town. A true Town player in this position should be willing to take one for the team, in order to give Town the best chance to win, while making clear and cogent arguments for us to off the one that _isn’t_ him. And that leads us to **Guiri**. Up until his vote, I was leaning toward voting for **Diver**. But the vote for **AllWalker** just kills me. It’s taking the exact argument I was making against **Diver** , and then embracing it! I’m pretty sure **AllWalker** is Town. I don’t see _two_ gambits in the style of **tiltawhirl** working. So what **Guiri** would have us do is end up in a three-way between him, **Diver** , and **Normal** , which I’ve said all along is anti-Town. And in this stage of the game, two votes may be enough to push things over the edge. Once my vote is set in stone, one vote for **AllWalker** from someone else may kill him, and that one vote may just as easily be from a misguided Townie, instead of from our killer. **Guiri** ’s vote is the height of irresponsibility. Basically, both of you have done some things that I see as being Scummy toDay. I’m not sure which one is worse. I’m still mulling this about in my head, and will vote when I get back to my computer, around 11:00-12:00. ---
**Author:** ![Drain\_Bead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e47774/32.png) [@Drain\_Bead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drain_Bead)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2009, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938/2854 "2009-11-24T14:10:23Z")
I meant to also bring up the fact that **Diver** keeps bringing up all these ideas, but does not actually put his vote where his mouth is. I’m not sure what to think of that, but I do think it needed to be said. ---
**Author:** ![GuiriEnEspana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bc79bd/32.png) [@GuiriEnEspana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuiriEnEspana)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2009, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938/2855 "2009-11-24T14:21:22Z")
> [@Drain\_Bead](#): > > **Guiri** ’s vote is the height of irresponsibility. My vote is not set in stone but I wanted to make a stance and a statement. I want what’s best for town today and will worry about tomorrow only if I survive till then. We have a chance of winning the game today and should go for that. I asked a couple of times why all suspicions of **AllWalker** had been dropped. It seems you guys just assumed he couldn’t be the bad guy when **OaOW** flipped scum but we still have the possibility of a SK or 2 scum teams and, given his extremely low profile throughout the game (90 posts, 57 in Days 1 & 2 but only 33 in the 6 Days since then), I don’t see how anyone can find him more Town than any of the other remaining players. We have yet to hear **Normal** ’s thoughts and **Allwalker** has not voted yet. ---
**Author:** ![GuiriEnEspana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bc79bd/32.png) [@GuiriEnEspana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuiriEnEspana)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2009, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938/2856 "2009-11-24T14:33:47Z")
NETA Correction, **Allwalker** was aparently deemed “innocent” after **Tilta** ’s flip, not **OaOW** ’s - sorry. ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2009, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938/2857 "2009-11-24T15:50:06Z")
I’m back, will try to evaluate what’s been going on and add my own thoughts within the next several hours. ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2009, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938/2858 "2009-11-24T16:03:29Z")
The main argument as regards AllWalker is his apparent confusion as regards his ability to survive a lynch. I think it’s a solid argument as far as it goes – Scum or SK might conceivably omit such a detail to avoid just the thing that happens to a Bomb claim ("you’re just trying not to get lynched!), but they certainly would have noticed it. Going back to look at that stuff in just a minute. ---
**Author:** ![Drain\_Bead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e47774/32.png) [@Drain\_Bead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drain_Bead)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2009, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938/2859 "2009-11-24T16:28:07Z")
Well, I don’t think **tilta** would have hid behind a teammate, especially not when there were targets who were less likely to be lynched/NKed in that day/night cycle (me, for example). I don’t know when **tilta** had to choose to hide behind **AllWalker** , but I’d imagine it was after the mass claim. It would make sense for **tilta** to hide behind **AllWalker** because at the time of the mass claim and **OAOW** lynch he was receiving very little heat, and if there was another killer out there, **tilta** would have believed herself to be safe during the Night portion of the cycle due to **AllWalker** ’s claim, and probably did not foresee the lynch votes swinging the way they did. I am hoping that others might vote before I have to leave, which will be around noonish. I’ll get a vote in then for certain, and I’m about 75% certain I know who it’s going to be for–I just want to see if a few other things happen before I do it. ---
**Author:** ![GuiriEnEspana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bc79bd/32.png) [@GuiriEnEspana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuiriEnEspana)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2009, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938/2860 "2009-11-24T17:15:31Z")
Are we assuming that there’s just one scum team of 6 and no Serial Killer? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938.md?page=142) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938.md?page=144)