# Screamers Mafia **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [September 21, 2009, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938 "2009-09-21T13:16:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 18
**Author:** ![Thing\_Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@Thing\_Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing_Fish)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2009, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938/341 "2009-09-27T18:12:33Z")
> [@peekercpa](#): > > and a quick question from an old guy. > > (snipped). > [@AllWalker](#): > > Next to the quote button is a "+ button. (snipped). :eek: Wow. All I had to do for the last two years was, um, ask somebody? :smack: Fascinating. The game seems to be getting off to a slow start; we haven’t really heard much from a lot of players[(post count)](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/misc.php?do=whoposted&t=532883), including myself. I certainly hope we can come up with something better to lynch for than not voting for Leader on Day One. At this point, however, I’m not seeing anything I want to hang a vote on, especially with almost five full days before we gather ‘round the ol’ hangin’ tree. I am wondering about the motivation of the people who are pushing **One and Only** to claim at this time, but suspect it is most likely overzealous Towniness. I’m not seeing at all what **peeker** is seeing in **Tom’s** posts. Would one of you scum please do something scummy? Thanks! And just in case, **Chronos** : I am Town-Aligned. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2009, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938/342 "2009-09-27T18:21:54Z")
Oh, FFS. > [@peekercpa](#): > > regarding my vote. i believe that there was an inherrant inconsistency in his post. it got worse on his follow up. > > now i guess this could mean a couple of things. one, he messed up or mis spoke. his response has led me to believe that it wasn’t a typo and was intentional. second he wants to say something without meaning anything. there could be others, i guess, but those pop up first and neither is pro town. So now my original post (below) not only suggested that there was no third party and suggested too strongly that there WAS a third party (at the same time), it was also a meaningless post which didn’t say anything. Glad you’re covering all the bases there peeks. Let’s go to the tape, shall we? > [@Tom\_Scud](#): > > Another thing not mentioned yet that maybe should be obvious: as I understand it, the rule of thumb for Mafia games is that scum should be (# of players)/4 or sqrt(# of players), which would work out to 6 and 5, respectively. Which gives us 6 or 7 mislynches, _ **all else being equal, which of course it won’t be** _. But just as a baseline assumption until we get better information. Emphasis added. Honestly, if **peeker** had poked at me for posting a bunch of noncontroversial stuff in an effort to look pro-town, when I could just as easily have been scum, it would have been a reasonable case. I’m much more comfortable noodling with theory and process, and much less comfortable making barely-substantiated accusations. On the other hand, I use capital letters. But, you know, as his second fall-back position, lame. > [@peekercpa](#): > > so no third parties in your world, apparently. > > yikes. > > does someone know something they shouldn’t or is there obfuscation or is it just whoops? So my post implied there was no third party. > [@Tom\_Scud](#): > > That’s why I said “all else being equal, which of course it won’t be.” > > We don’t KNOW that there are third parties, although the mods have been very coy about kinda-sorta not answering our queries about that. > [@peekercpa](#): > > but **tom** you are making my point. let me parse those two sentences in reverse order. > > _We dont’ KNOW that there are third parties…_ > > true enough. maybe so maybe no. > > _"…all else being equal, **which of course it won’t be.** _ > > this infers, in your words, that it’s not just straight up town v scum (how you calcuated the potential mislynches). > > how do you know that? I explain that peeker misread my post. He now sees that one half-sentence (which was in the original post) as suggesting too strongly that there ARE third parties. > [@peekercpa](#): > > bzzzzttt. wrong. > > obviously subtlety is lost. the whole point of my first post is that someone who is third party would like to intimate that there are no third parties. and who would know for a fact about the presence of third parties. well a third party of course. > > you then follow it up with a have it both ways type of post which strongly leans to knowledge regarding the presence of third parties. so you either know something (which in and of itself is just that) or you want to be able to say opposites and dance (which is troubling). Seriously, WTF? In other news, I’ve looked at the other cases extant and don’t see a lot there; **Alkie’s** point about not necessarily immediately lynching the Miller (if there is one) seems reasonable to me; any automatic lynch, necessary or no, seems somewhat anti-town as it gives very little information, while a vig kill (if there is a vig) could actually do something more useful for Town than the usual night 1 shot-in-the-dark. Jpei looks more noobish than scummy to me. And it really depends on what OAOW has in his magic bag. If it’s something lame, then he might be better off drawing scum’s night-kill to him with a (forced) partial claim. So **vote peeker** for giving logically contradictory reasons for lynching me. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2009, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938/343 "2009-09-27T18:24:11Z")
Oh, yeah and Mr. Lie Detector (if any): **I am town-aligned.** ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2009, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938/344 "2009-09-27T18:48:01Z")
**Alka Seltzer (1): Boozy Squid jpei (3): Normal Phase, OaOW, Fruedian Tom Scud(1): peeker One and Only(1): Chronos Peeker(1): Tom Scud** ---
**Author:** ![Drain\_Bead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e47774/32.png) [@Drain\_Bead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drain_Bead)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2009, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938/345 "2009-09-27T19:06:14Z")
This lie-detector thing seems like it’s adding unnecessary noise. If it works by only being able to detect actual lies related to alignment, it’ll only be helpful if we all participate in stating our alignment. Ontherwise the scum can hide in the non-zero amount of townies who claim nothing. And seeing as we don’t even know if we have a lie detector, and if we do, his or her talents will eventually only be used to check actual role claims, this seems very premature. I’m a bit concerned with **Chronos** and what appears to be two attempts at role-fishing. He’s an experienced player and should know better. **Vote Chronos** (vote formatting on the phone is annoying!) ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2009, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938/346 "2009-09-27T19:35:24Z")
Eh, my thinking was that it couldn’t hurt, and might help. If we do happen to have a lie detector, then I have no desire to learn who it is. At least, not yet, not until you (if you exist) have worthwhile information to share. And even if not everyone claims, at worst the hypothetical lie-detector would at least be able to build up a few confirmed Town. ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2009, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938/347 "2009-09-27T19:50:33Z")
ok, enough of this and then onward. yes my first post was smart assy. kind of like and august day here in san antonio. temperature 105 and humidity of 75 percent. **first person** kind of hot today **peek** nope, not at all, thought i’d go put on a sweater. like i said, subtlety is apparently lost in the translation. bwt, i don’t get hung up on omgys votes as much as other folks so that part is null. ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2009, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938/348 "2009-09-27T20:08:53Z")
Your attack on **Tom** just doesn’t add up, **peeker**. It’s all well and good to say “onward,” but you kept it up doggedly enough, and I can’t imagine why. There’s a difference between subtlety and outright absence of reason. Your reasoning for the suspicion has very obviously changed, but your intensity has not. I can’t imagine a good reason for you to do that, no matter who you’re playing for, honestly; it seems as dumb a maneuver for scum to pull as it does for town, but as a first day vote goes, that’ll do. **Vote peeker** ---
**Author:** ![BillMC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3be4f8/32.png) [@BillMC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BillMC)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2009, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938/349 "2009-09-27T20:27:49Z")
Sorry folks, my participation is going to be low till mid-week; the workload from hell arrived on my desk over the weekend ☹ ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2009, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938/350 "2009-09-27T20:49:50Z")
> [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](#): > > Your attack on **Tom** just doesn’t add up, **peeker**. It’s all well and good to say “onward,” but you kept it up doggedly enough, and I can’t imagine why. There’s a difference between subtlety and outright absence of reason. > > Your reasoning for the suspicion has very obviously changed, but your intensity has not. I can’t imagine a good reason for you to do that, no matter who you’re playing for, honestly; it seems as dumb a maneuver for scum to pull as it does for town, but as a first day vote goes, that’ll do. > > **Vote peeker** well, i am not sure i would characterize it as an attack. let’s call it questioning someone on inconsistencies. if in this group that is frowned upon, meh. it’s been a while since i have played on this board so some of the nuances of this particular site apparently have eluded me. oh, and my reasons for suspicion have not changed one bit from post one. so please don’t use made up crap or imagined vapors to justify your vote (or at least be honest about it). if confronting folks when they say diametrically opposed statements is anti town and frowned upon here then you guys/gals need to get rid of me durn quick. i just don’t play both sides very well and i will universally call people on wanting to have it both ways. ---
**Author:** ![DaphneBlack](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/daphneblack/32/5389_2.png) [@DaphneBlack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DaphneBlack)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2009, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938/351 "2009-09-27T21:11:51Z")
**Peeker** , I read **Tom’s** original post as, as he said, a ‘baseline’ from which to work, ie one that doesn’t take absolutely every possibility into account (which is impossible to do in a wholly closed game like this one). I don’t see any inconsistency in his posts. I know you are a confrontational player and that is fine, but your reaction to the fact that people aren’t being convinced by your line of argument is a little petulant. Why the ‘you guys need to get rid of me’ thing? That seems kinda defensive. I agree (with **Drain Bead** ) that, again, wondering about what specific roles are in the game (Lie Detector, Miller) is possibly unproductive on Day One. But I get no sense from **Chronos** that he is role-fishing per se. I’ve never been able to get a good read on Chronos, though (watching previous games) so his comments are raising my scrutiny a bit. ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2009, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938/352 "2009-09-27T21:15:28Z")
> [@peekercpa](#): > > let’s call it questioning someone on inconsistencies. if in this group that is frowned upon, meh. it’s been a while since i have played on this board so some of the nuances of this particular site apparently have eluded me. > > oh, and my reasons for suspicion have not changed one bit from post one. so please don’t use made up crap or imagined vapors to justify your vote (or at least be honest about it). if confronting folks when they say diametrically opposed statements is anti town and frowned upon here then you guys/gals need to get rid of me durn quick. Questioning someone for inconsistency is exactly what I’m doing right now, actually. And I don’t really care one way or the other about whether your reasons have changed, but your statements sure have. If this is the best you can do at articulating your suspicions, I’ll take my chances since you aren’t helping my team much anyway. Here’s what you said. > [@](#): > > so no third parties in your world, apparently. > > yikes. > > does someone know something they shouldn’t or is there obfuscation or is it just whoops? “So no third parties in your world, apparently.” was the first sentence you chose to make your point, which you are now claiming was: > [@](#): > > but tom you are making my point. let me parse those two sentences in reverse order. > > We dont’ KNOW that there are third parties… > > true enough. maybe so maybe no. > > "…all else being equal, which of course it won’t be. > > this infers, in your words, that it’s not just straight up town v scum (how you calcuated the potential mislynches). > > how do you know that? that **Tom** was implying (you said inferring but I don’t think you meant that) that there _are_ third parties. Which you then followed up by saying that: > [@](#): > > the whole point of my first post is that someone who is third party would like to intimate that there are no third parties. and who would know for a fact about the presence of third parties. well a third party of course. > > you then follow it up with a have it both ways type of post which strongly leans to knowledge regarding the presence of third parties. so you either know something (which in and of itself is just that) or you want to be able to say opposites and dance (which is troubling). so now we find out that, wait a minute, your first post was correctly stated – you were saying **Tom** was claiming there were NO third parties, which suggests that **Tom** knows there are third parties, and is a third party. Even though you just said, in your second post, that he was “inferring” that there were third parties, in his own words. So then you sum up: > [@](#): > > ok, enough of this and then onward. > > yes my first post was smart assy. > > kind of like and august day here in san antonio. > > temperature 105 and humidity of 75 percent. > > first person > kind of hot today > > peek > nope, not at all, thought i’d go put on a sweater. > > like i said, subtlety is apparently lost in the translation. > > bwt, i don’t get hung up on omgys votes as much as other folks so that part is null. So, final answer is, the first post was sarcastic. Since your first post said “no third parties in your world,” what you were really trying to get across sarcastically was that **Tom** , what, exactly? What were you even trying to communicate with your “smart assy” post? Where was the “inconsistency” that you were highlighting in your first post, when you said “So no third parties in your world, apparently”? It doesn’t add up. It’s a house of cards. One can read **Tom** ’s initial post (which, incidentally, was made in post 131, before the Day even officially started, which means that you had plenty of time to think about why it might bother you) and see exactly what he was trying to say – these are the numbers we can expect, roughly, if this is a perfectly straightforward game, which it probably won’t be. Can’t say the same about your posts, and that’s fatal in this game. ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2009, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938/353 "2009-09-27T21:29:59Z")
> [@Normal\_Phase](#): > > Can’t imagine how someone could know for sure there are no 3rd party players, so if this wasn’t just **Tom** being **Tom** , the only realistic non-Town motivation would be that he is one (a third party player), and was trying just a little too hard not to betray that he was more than aware of the possibility. On the face of it, it doesn’t seem like him. \ at least **normal** got it, fcs. ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2009, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938/354 "2009-09-27T21:33:00Z")
> [@Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](#): > > No, not really. It was just the first anti-town idea that popped out to me. Don’t take it personally, I’m strongly considering peeker’s questions about Scuddy right now and may make a switch. The **jpei** case isn’t very strong right now. \ apparently, **boozy** as well. ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2009, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938/355 "2009-09-27T21:35:49Z")
So you don’t want to answer the question? ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2009, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938/356 "2009-09-27T21:53:40Z")
**Alka Seltzer (1): Boozy Squid jpei (3): Normal Phase, OaOW, Fruedian Tom Scud(1): peeker One and Only(1): Chronos Peeker(1): Tom Scud, Jimmy Chitwood Chronos(1): Drain Bead** ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2009, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938/357 "2009-09-27T22:33:13Z")
> [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](#): > > So you don’t want to answer the question? what question? what i was trying to get across was why he would make the statement he made. what i was trying to communicate was a sharing of information and/or thought processes that would lead to those statements. is that what you are looking for? oh, btw. the inconsistency that i note is in my second post. let’s try to at least keep the facts straight. ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2009, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938/358 "2009-09-27T22:34:35Z")
**mod question: are the numbers of votes right?** ---
**Author:** ![Trepa\_Mayfield](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@Trepa\_Mayfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trepa_Mayfield)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2009, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938/359 "2009-09-27T23:12:10Z")
> [@peekercpa](#): > > **mod question: are the numbers of votes right?** Alka Seltzer (1): Boozy Squid jpei (3): Normal Phase, OaOW, Fruedian Tom Scud(1): peeker One and Only(1): Chronos Peeker(2): Tom Scud, Jimmy Chitwood Chronos(1): Drain Bead Fixed. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2009, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938/360 "2009-09-27T23:57:45Z")
> [@pedescribe](#): > > Alka Seltzer (1): Boozy Squid > jpei (3): Normal Phase, OaOW, Fruedian > Tom Scud(1): peeker > One and Only(1): Chronos > Peeker(2): Tom Scud, Jimmy Chitwood > Chronos(1): Drain Bead > > Fixed. Can I still be Freudian? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938.md?page=17) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938.md?page=19)